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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Jack the Ripper: Who's the most likely Ripper?
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: Research Issues / Philosophy:
Jack the Ripper: Who's the most likely Ripper?
Author: Jon
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 11:35 pm |        | Tom
I couldn't recall the name but I vagely remembered the identification of an example to answer your "there must have been easier way to get an organ" (or words to that effect).
Escallating Fetishist
One who takes trophies from dead bodies, hair and nails as an example. Then progressing to dig up bodies to retrieve such samples, he gets more daring. Then resorts to murder to collect hair and nails from his victims. Then the trophies start to include fingers.......he murders to collect a finger or two.
"Isn't there an easier way to get a finger?"
Ah well, maybe we can't take such stories serious, afterall, this was just an X FILES script.
Who was it that said art copies life, or was it life copies art?
Anyone got an example of an Escallating Fetishist?
Regards, Jon
(Its a label I've never heard used for Jack) |
Author: Tom Wescott
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 01:23 am | | Graziano,
You might want to relax on the 'America' comments. With that said, I don't believe I need to offer any argument for Jack having not been a woman. To suggest he was shows a considerable amount of ignorance not only on the Ripper case but on serial killing in general, no matter what country or century. As for your 'rules' where did you get those? If my 'vulgarity' were not allowed it would have been deleted. Anyone too thin-skinned to read that word shouldn't be reading about Jack the Ripper. I use it sparingly, mind you. At that moment i just thought the glamorizing of Jack was going a bit too far. Why would you say you hope I was kidding about Jill? Of course I wasn't! I know you're a smarter man than that. A few certain facts must be accepted for study on this case to go anywhere, and one of those facts must be that Jack was a man.
Jon,
While Jack was, for the most part, professional in his carrying out of the murders, there can be no question that he got sexual delight from them as well as his trophies. In fact, that's the primary reason for a serial killer taking a 'trophy' after all.
Your information on 'escallating fetishism' is very interesting indeed and worth much thought. Of course, it should be pointed out that for the fetishist in question his primary motive would have to be a sexual one, which leads back to my original statement of him f*cking his victims with a knife, whether figuritively or literally. Good work on that one!
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: graziano
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 05:32 am | | Hello Tom,
could you eventually show me where and when someone told on these boards that Jack was Jill.
Because you continually seem to hint that this someone is me.
I hope it was not my P.S. to you some messages ago that gave you this idea.
If it is, it's of course my fault, I thought that you were a person with some humour.
Same thing for comments about America.
Because when you say "people is cattle" I dare think this is only humour.
And no, I have already spoken on these boards with a lot of people and I have read a lot on JtR and I never met vulgarity, I even must say that I took a lot of pleasure in doing it.
It's not a question of being thin-skinned, it's a question of respect.
If you do not agree with some other people arguments you may answer as you will.
You may say "You must be on crack" or give your personal thoughts (a bit more than "this is non-sense") supported by other arguments.
In the latter case you will just follow the normal pattern that should bring the same discussion to some constructing results and you will gain yourself in credibility, in the former you will surely have the last world and could think that you are the best and the only but as far as to let the case advancing......
Now, of course, it depends on your goals.
As for the case, you asked me some questions (or, seen the tone, gave me some orders) and I answered to them all.
I asked you only one.
I am still waiting for the answer.
Graziano. |
Author: graziano
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 06:37 am | | Oh Tom,
I was quite forgetting.
Since what happened in the "shameful" Europe (you see I am not necesserily to be considered anti-american) some 60 years ago,
when some millions of inoffensive men, women, children were put on trains like cattle, and then like cattle brought to some "slaughterhouses" and then like cattle killed, could I ask you, in the memory of those people, to erase from your profile on this Casebook the very unfortunate sentence mentioned in the message above.
I know that this was absolutely not the meaning you gave it, but it could be easy misunderstood.
Thank you. Graziano. |
Author: Tom Wescott
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 03:47 pm | | Graziano,
You mentioned the possibility of a Jill the Ripper in a post a few days ago. You said "Jack, or Jill" or something like that. It wasn't meant humorously. Now it appears you're picking apart my profile and you're starting to sound very strange. How on earth could you draw a comparison between my use of the common phrase 'people are cattle' and the Nazi concentration camps? I'm quite certain you are the only person who could have come up with this. That phrase is in reference to how people tend to follow the flock in terms of fads, fashions, and popular opinion. YOU are the one drawing the comparison between the holocaust victims and cattle. Not me. I think of them as people. For me to remove my quote in their name would be to suggest that they WERE cattle. If a tiny, tiny percentage of people want to draw that very strange correlation, I can't stop that, and frankly I DON'T CARE. You can't please everyone, Graz, so stop trying. With every comment you make you are lending credence to my quote. If you want to continue to try and make yourself the savior to all people at my expense, you're going to need better material than me stating 'people are cattle'. It's talk like this that makes people really sick of ultra-liberal thinking and causes them to retort harshly. Frankly, you've befuddled me with this one. And no, you may not ask me to remove anything from my profile or posts....ever. That's the moderators job.
You also suggest that I think of myself as 'the best and only' in Ripperology. Maybe you think I am, but I surely don't. Paul Begg, Stewart Evans, Chris George, CM Digrazia, Ivor Edwards and Martin Fido, among others, have received numerous emails from me asking their help, information, and advice, and I'm not at all ashamed to admit it. Most of these guys have decades on me in studying this case and crime in general and I relish the fact that I have much to learn from them. I'm thankful that there are so many people of superior knowledge for me to learn from and I make no bones about tapping into those resources. After all, I'M not the one ordering others to 'sit down and listen' to their Ripper preachings. I'm willing to listen to any theory from anybody, as long as it has a modicum of sense to it. If it doesn't, I feel a responsibility to help the discussion get back on a logical track. Sometimes that means dealing with the occasional troublemaker like you, but I'm okay with that.
You state that I keep refusing to answer a question of yours. What question is that? I really don't feel like re-reading all your posts to decipher it, so please ask again and I will answer it if I feel it's worth my time. And let me know when you're done dissecting my profile for genicidal messages so maybe we can continue our discussion of the Ripper case. Who knows, we might stumble onto something.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 04:08 pm | | Maybe "people are sheep" was what was meant.
However, some are also leamings....
Ach,....there are only two kinds of people in this world my friend.
Those with weapons......and those with wounds.
Regards, Jon
(Knocking back a cold one on another blistering hot Ontario day) |
Author: graziano
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 05:30 pm | | Tom,
apparently there do exist some persons humoursenseless, you are the confirmation.
My fault, my ignorance.
As far as 'people are cattle' coupled with your 'superior knowledge' here above, it is quite scaring, I can tell.
Bad reminiscences.
Bad encounter on these boards.
Do not worry for the break, you are going to get a very long one from me.
Graziano. |
Author: graziano
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 05:37 pm | | Hello Alegria,
if Mr Wescott is trying to tell me something I should have understood before about my presence here it is not a problem if it is told more plainly.
I am so stunned by what this guy (which existence I even was not aware till two days ago - the opposite seems not to be true) have said and done that I cannot believe he has done that alone.
Is he speaking for someone ?
Bye. Graziano. |
Author: Alegria
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 07:51 pm | | Hello Graziano,
I am the wrong person to ask about Tom. Tom and I have had differences in the past and I would be the last person capable of providing insight into his thought processes. If you are asking if there is a general feeling of ill-will towards you by others on the boards, I can honestly answer: not that I know about and no one has complained to me or said a negative thing regarding you. I too have taken offense at some of the things that Tom has posted or put in his profile. But people have taken offense at things I have said. Not everyone is going to agree and personalities will clash. If you enjoy a blood-boilingly good argument continue to post to Tom. If you do not (or cannot because you have to be neutral), then don’t post to him or reply anymore. Focus on the people who you do enjoy talking with and ignore the rest. That’s what most of us do anyway.
Cheers,
Ally |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 08:32 pm | | Graziano,
keep cool mate, just because you and Tom have your differences, doesn't mean anyone else feels that way. You and me have got on fine, and I'm sure everyone else would say the same. I look forward to reading your postes, they are always interesting and sensible, keep em coming please,
Best wishes, Rick |
Author: Tom Wescott
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 11:08 pm | | This is amazing. He says my profile is anti-semitic and I'm supposed to think that's humorous? I'm sorry, but I missed the punchline. I wasn't laughing when he told me that my opinions on the case don't matter because I'm an American, either. But of course he was 'stunned' by my responses and my imaginary threats of violence. And man, I've been playing nice! I'm glad that Rick can see the sense in his posts, because I sure can't. But the pity trip seems to be working, so best of luck to you, Graz. Need some tissue? How about a backbone?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Tom Wescott
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 11:15 pm | | Alegria,
Pray tell what do YOU find offensive about my profile? Perhaps I should go back and read it again. Just to get a second opinion, do you find any humor in Graziano's post to me injecting my quote with anti-semitic meanings? What about the anti-America reteric? Am I missing the joke here? Someone please clue me in.
Jon,
Sorry for the kid games. You were onto something quite interesting before. Please continue.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: graziano
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 04:45 am | | Hello Rick,
once again you show the advantages to be a cold-blooded english gentleman.
I should take some lessons.
Bye. Graziano. |
Author: Warwick Parminter
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 05:14 am | | Tom,
you are both of value on the boards, don't try to offend each other off them, one or both of you has made a mistake, why not just leave it at that. Remember Jade, and Joseph.
Rick |
Author: E Carter
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 07:36 am | | | Tom, please stop making silly statements like: 'what colour crack are you smoking'? ED |
Author: Alegria
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 07:53 pm | | Hi Tom,
As far as I know there is nothing in your profile now that I find offensive. Back in the day when you had--
Pets: My girlfriend's name is Ann
I thought that was offensive. I do not find shades of anti-semitism in the quote "People are cattle."
Ally |
Author: E Carter
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 03:02 am | | Alegria, could we all have this completley wrong?
Could, Tom have a certain way with animals that we do not understand; his pet could actually be his girlfriend, Ann, being short for Anntelope? Or Annaconda? ED.
Myself, I very much doubt it!
Tom, I am only joking! |
Author: E Carter
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 03:09 am | | More seriously, has anyone heard of the word STEAM concerning analysis ?
I have noticed that several people, without understanding the process, have the ability to STEAM!
Graziano is one, and Jon to a lesser extent if he applied himself more! ED |
Author: graziano
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 07:41 am | | Hello Ed,
as usually you are very nice, but hey, come near by, without anybody else hearing,
the only thing that helps me here, ..........is my past,
 ,
pssst, do not tell anybody else,
Bye. The sometimes very doubtful humourous Graziano.  |
Author: Alegria
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 08:39 am | | Ed,
I would reply with something witty but I am laughing too hard! I think you've solved it!!
pANNda...he could be a poor speller too,
Ally |
Author: Tom Wescott
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 10:21 am | | Ally and Ed,
You've overlooked the most obvious...the all-encompassing ANNIMAL! I'm always on the look out for a fine Philly!  Actually, that remark about my girlfriend at the time grew out of she and I joking around as I wrote the profile on a whim one day. She half-heartedly complained that I didn't mention her, so I wrote that, we laughed, and that was that, until later when people started pointing it out. I had forgotten all about it. Then we broke up and I erased it. I'm now thinking of updating my profile again with a new quote, but since so much has been made of the existing one, I imagine I'll leave it for a little while.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Author: Simon Owen
Thursday, 16 August 2001 - 07:55 pm | | STEAM Ed ? When I am able , my theory shall be coming back with a vengeance probably around September or October time , you won't know what hit ya !
In the meantime keep proving that the victims weren't killed on the spot , vital to my theory too.
Simon  |
Author: E Carter
Friday, 17 August 2001 - 02:00 am | | | Simon, S.T.E.A.M, Scrutinize is the first, Make decisions the last. Can you work out the 3 words between? And, as tend to keep my hands up and my chin down, I seldom get hit with new theories! More importantly, I do not have a theory, I have evidence! ED |
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