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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Archive through July 23, 2001
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: General Topics:
Robert Maloney's Theory:
Archive through July 23, 2001
Author: Simon Owen
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 06:47 pm |        | Phlgglgglggghh Ryleh ut Cthulu plgglgglgg !  |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 06:54 pm | | Dear Mark,
Jesus, you make me seem ancient! I, along with my folk, only yesterday closed up the tombs of the ancestors, having given them their 'airing'on the eve of the midsummer solstice. In the evening, I partook of the usual symbolic imbibing and lo and behold...space and time did stand still! Are we alone in this? (I think not.)
Dribbling-Rose :-) |
Author: Mark List
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 07:04 pm | | Simon:
"In his house at R'yleh, dead Cthulu waits dreaming"
Rosey:
You did re-capture for the 13 ghost of Scooby Doo, before doing so, right?
-Mark |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 07:31 pm | | Dear Rob,
Enjoy your vacation...Icelandic folklore tour? You will have to submit to the rationalist agenda
of Yaz, Chris,et.al., and yet, beyond their seemingly insouciance, lies a continent of curiousity of all things...for I am aware that they are familiar with the idea of 'intuitive' truths... like Hamilton's discovery of quarternian equations while walking through Phoenix Park? Now where did that idea come from?
Rosey Red Nose Reindeer :-) |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 07:47 pm | | Dear Rob Looking forward to the flesh-eating scene,"thigh will be done"?
Rosey :-) |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Tuesday, 26 June 2001 - 09:17 pm | | I seem to recall that Jack Sheppard (hanged in
1724) was a thief who was famous for making some
incredible escapes from Newgate Prison (about three or four) before finally being executed.
He did not become famous due to the actual thefts
he was convicted for.
Jeff |
Author: Caroline Anne Morris
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 05:14 am | | And when portrayed in the theatre in Victorian times, his part was usually taken by a woman. (We get in everywhere, don't we? As opposed to Jack Sheppard, who escaped from everywhere - Jack-out-of-a-box. )
Love,
Caz
PS I've just seen an unintentional double entendre - I didn't mean to imply that a woman was going round 'taking' men's 'parts' - a Jack in reverse. |
Author: Eduardo Zinna
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 08:54 am | | | Wow! |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 08:34 pm | | About a decade ago there was a movie about
Sheppard (a comedy, apparently) with the title
"Where's Jack?" It did not have a long movie
release...maybe it was not such a good film.
Oddly enough, to the people on this board, the
title could have been about the casebook's chief
subject. |
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 27 June 2001 - 11:44 pm | | Jeff
That was a 25+ yr old movie, from the 70's I think, the part of Jack Shepperd was played by 60's singer Tommy Steele.
All things considered, I thought it was pretty good.
Regards, Jon |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Thursday, 28 June 2001 - 10:36 pm | | Jon,
Now that's a name to recall. Tommy Steele, who made Disney's The Happiest Millionaire (with
Fred MacMurray and Greer Garson) and Half a
Sixpence. I forgot he was the star of "Where's
Jack?" Was his career in England bigger than
his international one?
Jeff |
Author: stephen stanley
Friday, 29 June 2001 - 03:47 pm | | Hi,Jeff,
Would you believe he started out as Britain's answer to Elvis....I kid you not,he was our first home-grown Rock n' Roll star singing 'Rock with the caveman' in 1956
Steve |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Friday, 29 June 2001 - 10:11 pm | | Hi Steve,
Well everyone has to begin at some place - although the singing cockney as a Rock n Roll
star is certainly unexpected. But then, Michael
Crawford is currently linked to his romantic
horror-musical role in The Phantom. In his early
film career (30 years back) he was "Hero" in
A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE FORUM,
Cornelius Hackl in HELLO DOLLY, and one of the
two scheming/swinging brothers in THE JOKERS with
Oliver Reed. With that background (even singing
Sondheim lyrics or Jerry Herman tunes) who could
have seen him singing "The Children of the Night"?
Jeff |
Author: Guy Hatton
Monday, 02 July 2001 - 04:30 am | | Jeff -
You haven't seen Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em then, have you?
Cheers
Guy |
Author: Robert Maloney
Monday, 02 July 2001 - 10:47 am | | Yazoo,
Sorry I couldn't reply any sooner. In answer to your question about sources: I have a source for everything I have written about with the only possible exception being the Rosary symbolism found on Liz Stride because I DO NOT KNOW how the oval shaped blood clots got there. To be clear, I was not suggesting they were mutilations, as it is possible they were caused by some type of pressure as well.
As I have written several times, if you get a good dictionary of English slang and look up "Jack" in it, you will find many interesting entries that have significance to this case.
For example, a partial list of some of the entries under "Jack" in my dictionary are as follows:
A sailor
Jack the sailor
sailor Jack
The c. senses are a farthing (late C. 17-early 18); a seal,(C. 17-18. a corruption of jark, q.v.); A watch, (C.19-20. a corruption of jark); cf. Romany jarika, an apron; and a policeman (ea. 1865),-this last> gen. Australian s. ca. 1910. Ware. Almost c. is the (-1851) gaming sense. a counter resembling a sovereign. ; A variety of polyanthus: coll. (-1879). A single carnation (sold as a choice carnation).
The inevitable nickname of any man surnamed Sheppard, Ex. the C. 18 prison-breaker.
These examples are important to anyone that understands the significance of symbolism to those that practice any type of magic.
Regarding the source material for the folk magic references, these can be easily obtained at any time. Black magic material is more difficult to find of course, but any expert should recognize the numerous examples of black magic practice throughout this case. I would have to seriously consider the ramifications before I gave directions on how to find a recipe for making a summoning ink from blood for example. However, everything I have written is true and can be backed up with source material.
I've just read in Paul Beggs book "Jack the Ripper, The Uncensored Facts" this paragraph:
In the course of the next few hours the police examined Dutfield's Yard, the Club, the houses in the yard and the Arbeter Fraint offices. Everyone was searched and had their clothes examined. Nothing significant was found. Inspector Reid did make one curious statement at the inquest which was reported without comment in The Times, 6 October 1888. He said that on searching the building in the yard he discovered that 'a door of a loft was found locked on the inside, and it was forced. The loft was searched, but no trace of the murderer could be found.' Nor, apparently, was there any trace of the person who bolted the door from the inside!
This of course, appears to me, along with the locking one of the outhouse doors from the inside and the locking of Mary Kelly's door from the inside, as another example of the gangs "funny little games" regarding Jack Sheppard's prison-breaking skills. And I am curious as to where you stand regarding the similarities between the two cases. From Isaacs stealing the watch near Drury Lane, to the man in the long great coat near a chandler's shop, to the doors locked from the inside, to the relationship with Spitalfield prostitutes and the their means of death by strangulation, to the arrest of a man in connection to Blackfriars bridge that fit the description of the man with the American hat, to the murders all taking place near gateways, to the recipe for bringing Sheppard back to life, to the numerous examples of "Jack" symbolism used by the killers (Jack the Sailor etc). Do you believe that these were all coincidences or that there might be something to this afterall?
Curious Rob |
Author: Mark List
Monday, 02 July 2001 - 05:50 pm | | Rob,
Just out of curiousity, what would all the symbolic statments do for the murderers?
Would it help them in a certain way?
I'm not an experet in Black Magic (or any magic for that matter)
But, I'm wondering about your theory and how it reflects on the killings, murderers, victims, and purpose of the murders.
Mark |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Monday, 02 July 2001 - 08:44 pm | | Guy,
No I haven't seen Some Mothers Do Have 'Em. If
you get a chance tell me about it.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Author: Judith Stock
Tuesday, 03 July 2001 - 12:04 am | | Actually, Jeff the song is called "MUSIC of the Night", and "Some Mothers Do Have 'Em" is either a major hoot, or abominably silly, depending on the episode and your mood. AND, who said "Cheeldren of the Night......SHUTTUP!!", and in what movie?
Or is this better taken on the Monkey's board?
Cheers to all,
Judy |
Author: Robert Maloney
Tuesday, 03 July 2001 - 09:05 am | | Hi Mark,
The 'Dear Boss' letter is in my opinion the single most important piece of evidence in the case of Jack the Ripper. Generally regarded by many experts as being a hoax, I have many problems with the hoax theory. To start, the letter contains many psychological clues you might expect to find in a communication from a killer. First, there are indications of hatred and jealousy towards the police. He laughs when the police 'look so clever' and threatens to send the next victim's ears to them. If this is a communication from an inadequate person who needs to demonstrate his superiority there should be examples where he 'handicaps' himself by leaving intentional clues. And this letter does contain numerous examples of double meanings and various underlined words ending with the trade name he gives himself.
However, the single most important part of the 'Dear Boss' letter is that it was written in red ink. And he tells us why it was written in red ink when he writes:
'I saved some of the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle over the last job to write with but it went thick like glue and I cant use it. Red ink is fit enough I hope ha. ha.'
These few lines are very powerful evidence that this letter was written by a black magician.
First, probably the single most important color to a folk magician is the color red and he underlines red in this letter. (the other color being white) Second, folk magicians consider red ink 'fit enough' for casting most spells and he reminds us of this in this letter as well. However, if he was attempting to make an ink for the purpose of summoning, he might consider using the 'proper red stuff' to write with. And the proper red stuff, or blood, will go 'thick like glue' unless you use an anti-coagulant. Through the years most people reading the 'Dear Boss' letter felt the writer was just trying to be frightening by writing that he saved some blood in a ginger beer bottle. What they were understandably unaware of was that the best anti-coagulant for inks made of blood is a combination of Citric acid, which is found in ginger beer, and sour salt.
Once you recognize that this letter was written by a black magician, the whole letter reveals itself in a new light. Now we know why he underlines red. And why he says 'clip' the ladies ear off. Because folk/black magicians carry with them clippers which they use for cutting red wool, ribbons and thread. Futhermore, folk magicians always end their letters with 'good luck'. We may even theorize on where the name 'Ripper' came from as some folk magicians used seam rippers. But most importantly, we now know why he kept using the words 'job' and 'work'. In the context of this letter 'job' meant spell and 'work' meant craftwork. This letter was, if not actually penned by, then inspired by, a black magician hired to cast an evil spell or summon an entity. In the late 1800s and early 1900s this type of black magician went by the name of Hex-master Doctor. And of course, this is why I believe he wrote 'They say I'm a doctor now ha ha.' These men were supposedly educated, possessed a great deal of magic related knowledge, and in some cases probably were actual doctors capable of displaying surgical skill. ('Grand work the last job was', referring to Annie Chapman) In any case, symbolism of all kinds, would have been very important to them.
Therefore the "Jack" in "Jack the Ripper" had special meaning to the gang that hired this Hex-master to construct this letter. A letter that was, in effect, a black magic spell.
end of part 1
Rob |
Author: Diana
Tuesday, 03 July 2001 - 10:19 am | | | Can you refer us to some books, articles etc. on black magic that would back up the assertions you make? Even if the writer of the letter was not the Whitechapel Murderer, the fact that the writer was immersed in the black arts and that the letter was suffused with symbolism which has not as yet been detected by anyone else is an important discovery. |
Author: Robert Maloney
Tuesday, 03 July 2001 - 06:57 pm | | Hi Diana,
I promise Diana that I will do just that, but first I am writing to an author/expert on this very point, because as I am sure you are aware, this is a very touchy subject.
Diana, what would you say is the strongest argument against the letters coming from the killers?
Rob |
Author: Diana
Tuesday, 03 July 2001 - 10:33 pm | | 1. The handwriting was too well done
2. the whole thing was too sophisticated to be Jack
3. the psychology is wrong
4. Contemporaneous police officials thought it was a crank
5. The police were inundated with letters purporting to be from Jack. What makes this one different?
Those are the standard arguments. |
Author: Guy Hatton
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 06:27 am | | Jeff -
See:
Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em - episode guide
or
Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em.
Judy has pretty much hit the nail on the head with her concise assessment.
All the Best
Guy |
Author: Leanne Perry
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 07:03 am | | G'day Folks,
I've just studied killer nicknames to write a story for 'Ripperoo'. I found about 200 knicknames that were given to killers by the press and writers over hundreds of years.
I notice that no other killer has 'Christened' him/herself.
About 'Jack the Ripper': I place the communication to George Lusk titled 'From Hell' and the half-kidney, as being most likely from the 'Whitechapel Murderer'.
The reasons being that they weren't sent directly to the press, (so the author wasn't just after public attention), and they weren't signed with the infamous nickname!
Leanne! |
Author: Robert Maloney
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 09:51 am | | Hi Diana, and thanks for the response
If you don't mind me saying so, I would suggest you are approaching the case with a certain set of assumptions already in place. First, you should look at the evidence and then draw conclusions from what you have. In other words, you appear to be basing your opinions on the "Poor Polish Jew" or the "Insane Maniac" theory.
The handwriting is only 'too well done' if you already believe that the killer was uneducated. And there is no reason to believe this. This was a sophisticated attempt at extortion that required planning and money. It is only too sophisticated if you believe this to be the work of one man. But it could not possibly have been the work of one man. Look at the eyewitness descriptions. The range is too great for there to have been only one man involved. Frankly, there is so many way to prove there was more than one man I could write about this all day. As just one example, take the night of Liz Strides' murder. Do you believe that only one of the men seen with her that night was her killer? And that all of the others were just paying customers?
The man who says "you would say anything but your prayers" was described as educated looking and having no moustache, the man described by Schwartz was tipsy with a moustache and the man seen by James Brown was wearing a long great coat almost to his heels. And I am arguing that the man wearing the long coat was definitely involved because this exact scene was played out many years before in the life of Jack Sheppard. So this scene has ritual written all over it. Furthermore, there was the "locked from the inside" loft, and the "locked from the inside" outhouse, two examples of their "funny little games" imitating Jack Sheppard again. And remember, the 'Dear Boss' letter warns you will soon hear of him.
Packer says there was a man with an American hat. And there was a man with a deerstalker hat and a man with the "sailor like" hat and a man with no hat and let us not forget "Pipe Man" as well. And then there is the issue of Israel Schwartz himself. He apparently does not testify at the inquest. If so, then why? Since most people hold that against Hutchinson, then why not Schwartz? His story changes dramatically when he talks to the press which is very fitting for a man who supposedly looked quite theatrical. Who was the interpreter and what was his name? A reporter apparently didn't believe Schwartz entirely. Why? And do you think it a little odd that a Hungarian immigrant, possibly fleeing anti-semitism, would go to the police in a new country following what he saw? I know that my wife's grandfather, who was a Jewish-Hungarian immigrant and one of the most honest and moral men I've ever met would not have gone to the police under the same circumstances because he had a very understandable distrust of authority. And all of this is only the tip of the iceberg regarding the events of just one murder. There are just too many questions and "funny little games" and ritual trappings like bonnets and flowers and grapes and men in "longgreat coats", and varying eyewitness descriptions, for this to have been a one man show. Nobody was ever caught because this was sophisticated.
When you argue that the psychology is wrong, what I think you mean is that the psychology is wrong for a sexual deviant. I am arguing that these crimes were not sexual, and if I am right, then the psychology is exactly what you would expect to find in underworld criminals. Remember in the letters he writes 'I gave the lady no time to squeal' and 'number one squealed a bit', this is a classic underworld expression.
The 'Dear Boss' letter and 'saucy Jacky' were original communications that contain inside information and this sets them apart from other letters. The fact that the police thought that these were cranks should not impress you greatly. While the police did the best they could and even arrested one of my main suspects, Joseph Isaacs, all in all, they came up empty.
As an example of questionable police work, take a case that does have direct bearing on the Jack the Ripper investigation. That of Druitt and his brothers. If the exact scenario played out today in the year 2001 regarding Montague Druitt and his supposed suicide, the police would have been arresting his brother before he finished reading the "suicide note". ( there are interesting connections from that story to this as well) In any event, his brother would have been a serious suspect in Montague's disappearance and that does not appear to have been the case - quite the opposite, actually. Finally, I believe the search for Anderson's suspect or Kosminski should be placed in proper perspective and possibly turned on its head. That being, if someone 'gave him up', I would question the significance of that person identified to this particular enterprise which clearly was financed and involved people more influential than a poor Polish immigrant. Anderson's suspect definitely has the appearance of being a "scapegoat" to me. And lets remember, there was no 'due process' accorded this person so to 'historically convict' him now for the crimes of Jack the Ripper, would in my opinion, be in itself, a crime.
So my suggestion would be to look at the case upside down, if you will. With the 'poor Polish' immigrant at the bottom and not at the top.
Rob |
Author: Diana
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 03:54 pm | | | I suppose I have been strongly influenced by and still believe in the FBI profile. |
Author: Robert Maloney
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 04:58 pm | | Diana,
Why not have faith in your own opinion? Forensic psychology is more art than science. Your just as qualified as anyone to have a particular theory. And besides, some 'profiles' have been said to fit Aaron Kosminski perfectly. Which means absolutely nothing, since he has no chance at all of being the sole Ripper. Furthermore, I'm sure the F.B.I was not given a great deal of information about this case and were probably just 'playing it by ear' anyway.
By the way, I've just read a very interesting dissertation by Mark King about Hyam Hyams, a very interesting suspect. In it he reported that Hyams was due to give an address at 217 Jubilee Street, Mile End in Dec. 1888. What was not mentioned, was how Joseph Aarons, the treasurer of the Vigilance Committee and someone I've been arguing might have been a key player in all of this, lived at the corner of Jubilee Street and Mile End Road. You see, in the end, all roads lead to Mile End Road - and the Vigilance Committee.
Rob |
Author: Leanne Perry
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 07:16 pm | | G'day Robert,
I remember reading somewhere, (I'll try to dig it up), that the 'inside information' that only the killer could know in the 'Dear Boss' letter and 'Saucy Jacky' postcard, could have been found out by some people, before it hit the papers!
Leanne! |
Author: Leanne Perry
Wednesday, 04 July 2001 - 10:19 pm | | G'day,
Read here in the message boards: 'Ripper Letters/General Discussion/How they were written'.
Scotland Yard at the time, were of the opinion that the 'Dear Boss' letter was the work of a young journalist, "Mr. Bulling".
Leanne |
Author: Robert Maloney
Thursday, 05 July 2001 - 09:12 am | | Hi Leanne,
As I have written before, the 'Dear Boss' letter was written by someone who practiced black magic. If you know what to look for, the evidence of this simply jumps off the page. I intend to go into greater detail soon, but for now, let me give you a few examples.
(1) Part of the letter was written in red ink. A folk or black magician casting a spell would use red ink.
(2) The letter writer tells us that he saved some blood in a ginger beer bottle from the last 'job' to write with but it went thick like glue so he couldn't use it. In other words, he actually wanted to write with an ink made from human blood but it coagulated. This is a highly significant part of the letter because only someone who practiced black magic would know to save the blood in ginger beer which contains Citric acid. Citric acid mixed with sour salt acts as an anti-coagulant for those making an ink from blood.
(3) The letter writer warns that you will soon hear of him and his 'funny little games'. After the 'double event' he writes that he wasn't 'codding' or hoaxing when he gave them the 'tip'. The killers left numerous little clues and played all kinds of games with the police over the course of the murders where, in addition, the color RED was used as a kind of 'calling card'.
( 4) Red (one of the words underlined) is the key color for those who practice the type of magic I am alleging these killers were practicing. The other colors being white and black.
(5) When he writes that red ink is 'fit enough' this is a clear indication that he was aware that in magic, spells can be written in red ink as opposed to an ink made from blood.
(6) However, when he writes 'wasnt good enough' and 'No luck yet' some time had passed between the writing of the first part of the letter, and the postscript, which was no longer written in red ink. This is extremely important because if this was a spell, there might be a time component to its casting, and hence, when whatever he was hoping to happen (a government reward?) - didn't happen - he was forced to write 'wasnt good enough' and 'No luck yet' and change the red ink to something else.
I will not speculate whether that was 'crayon' or perhaps something a bit more 'proper' for its purpose.
(7) If this letter was written by someone using magic for some purpose, such a person would definitely write "Good luck", which refers to the timing and placement of the spell and the good fortune that the letter writer was seeking. In other words, you should expect to see "Good luck" in a letter written by someone using magic.
(8) When he writes that he will 'clip' the lady's ears off, he has given us an enormous clue with which to work with particularly when combined with the use of the word 'Ripper'. Folk magicians that practice the type of magic I'm alleging, keep with them clippers and seam rippers for various purposes such as cutting red wool etc.
(9) A person involved in this type of magic would most definitely use various colored candles. Candles were made using the parts of the kidney suitable for making tallow. And this could explain why certain body parts were being taken away by the killers. Candle making and soap making are very closely related and 'stuff' and 'glue' are various stages during the candle and soap making process.
(10) The letter writer uses the words 'job' and 'work' several times because he knows that these words have double-meanings as do many other words in this very 'clever' letter. In the context of magic, job means spell and work means craftwork.
(11) If this letter was a spell, everything in the letter, the underlined words for example, would be there for some purpose. And thats why it is interesting when he writes 'Keep this letter back until I do a bit more work than give it out straight.' The fact that he wants the letter held back until after more murders had taken place and then to give the letter out exactly as he has written it, seriously undermines the "journalist" theory.
(12) The black magician who, at the very least, inspired this letter, was obviously hired to do these 'jobs'. And when considering all the pieces of black magic evidence together, one type of black magician comes to mind. The black magician that you would hire to cast evil spells or hexes was known as a Hex-master Doctor. So of course he would laugh when he writes 'They say I'm a doctor now ha ha.'
(13) The 'saucy Jacky' postcard was meant to establish the authenticity of the 'Dear Boss' letter and in fact does just that. The argument that someone could have gotten the details of the murders from two different police forces, involving two different murder sites, without making a mistake in at least one of the small details, is I believe not a good one. The journalists of the day made numerous errors in everything, from witness names, to what people said at the inquests, to the stories they gave the police. Given this, I see no reason how the details found in 'saucy Jacky' could have contained such accuracy unless it came from the killers themselves.
(14) And one final point that I think is extremely important and has been overlooked for 100 years. If this was a case where the killers did hire a black magician known as a Hex-master Doctor, and he used rituals and spells in the course of the murders, you might also expect to see the use of Runes as well. An argument can be made that there were Runes on Mary Kelly's wall. However, the minute I realized that this case involved black magic, I looked for an example of the protection Rune Algiz, which was often used by folk magicians to get letters through the postal system safely. The Rune is the shape of horns or antlers of a stag or elk. Now take a look at the 'saucy Jacky' postcard and tell me those are not horns inscribed on it. And if those are horns inscribed on it, what does it tell us about the story of Jack the Ripper?
Rob
Why does anyone care who the police suspected as the letter writer? If they had evidence, why wouldn't they have arrested him? Does this logic really need to be commented upon? These are the same police who didn't arrest Montague Druitts brother for heavens sake. |
Author: Robert Maloney
Friday, 20 July 2001 - 11:16 am | | Mr. Radka,
The name Lusk was commonly Irish or Scottish. However, the name was occasionally Polish, Czechoslovakian, Austrian or German as well. George Akin Lusk married Susannah Price on Jan. 20, 1863, in Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London. Perhaps the the name Akin or Aken is a clue to his ethnicity.
On October 13 1888 the East London Advertiser wrote:
Should the murderer again attempt to give effect to his infamous designs in the Whitechapel district he will require, in the interests of his own personal security, not only to avoid the uniformed and plainclothed members of the Metropolitan Police Force, but to reckon with a small, enthusiastic body of amateur detectives. Convinced that the regular force affords inadequate protection of life and property in this densely populated neighbourhood, a number of local tradesmen decided a few weeks ago to appoint a Vigilance Committee. The duties of the newly formed band were twofold. In the first place,they were to publish far and wide their disagreement with the Home Secretary by offering a substantial reward to "anyone - citizen or otherwise," who should give information as would bring the murderer or murderers to justice: and, in the second place, they were themselves to patrol the most secluded parts of the district in the dead of night with a view to running the criminal to earth. So worthy a motive they felt confident would at once command the sympathy and support of "the tradesmen, ratepayers, and inhabitants generally." Unfortunately, however, for the realisation of their hopes, experience had proved that those to whom they appealed were more ready to commend than to co-operate. Excluding one or two subscriptions of considerable amounts they have been compelled to admit that funds have not "rolled" in. Nor has the suggestion to hold a large public meeting in furtherance of the objects of the Vigilantes been responded to with alacrity. Yet, undaunted by these disappointments, the committee have worked persistently on. Night after night, at 9 o'clock, meetings have been held in the upper room of a public house in the Mile End-road, placed at the disposal of the committee by the landlord, who occupies the post of treasurer. The leaders of the movement are drawn principally from the trading class, and include a builder, a cigar manufacturer, a tailor, and a pictureframe maker, a licensed victualler, and "an actor."
The psychological "message" contained in the 'Dear Boss' letter and the "message" of the vigilance committee are one and the same. (the police can't solve the case so a large reward must be offered - How can the police catch me now?) It seems clear to me at least, that the language used in 'Dear Boss', the 'Saucy Jacky' and the Lusk letter would be found among the various members of the committee. From 'Grand work the last job was' to 'double event' to the phony theatrical actors "voice" of the Lusk letter. Is it really surprising that the vigilance committee would send the kidney to itself? The same article goes on to explain the black magic purpose for taking the organs in the first place. And lets not forget that the 'Dear Boss' letter was a black magic spell written in red ink that was originally meant to be written in blood only he didn't use the proper ratio of citric acid (found in ginger beer) to sour salt to act as an anti-coagulant. So, as a result, it went thick like glue. But he did make sure to inscribe the elk horns protection rune Algiz on 'Saucy Jacky' to make sure it got through the postal system safely. Joseph Aarons, the treasurer of the vigilance committee is later found running the public house coincidently called - The Horns. So whether the answer is found on Alderney Road or Mile End Road or in the Three Nuns, all roads lead back to the vigilance committee. And the fact that the names of the members corresponding to their respective occupations is not commonly known here on the Casebook is quite surprising to me. For example, what was the name of the "actor" on the committee? Afterall, in what other profession did people wear coats with Astrakhan collars, button boots, and spats?
Rob |
Author: Christopher T George
Friday, 20 July 2001 - 12:28 pm | | Hi Rob,
I hate to lock horns with you again (or is that anklers?  ) but I don't know whether you have thought of the fact that if it was the vigilance committee that was committing the murders they were spreading terror throughout their own community, among their own neighbors. In my view, the vigilance committee was what it appeared to be, an effort by the people of the area to remove the scourge of the murders, rather than the instrument that caused the crimes. A conspiracy theory such as you are proposing could seem more feasible if those involved were largely outsiders (e.g., Masons) instead of people who actually lived where the murders occurred.
Please feel free to come out swinging.
All the best
Chris George |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Friday, 20 July 2001 - 04:18 pm | | Dear Chris,
I suspect Mr Maloney of being a deft exponent of the sucker-punch...citric acid is about to be spilt.
Rosey :-) |
Author: Robert Maloney
Saturday, 21 July 2001 - 08:12 am | | Hi Chris,
Well antlers maybe. What are "anklers", by the way? :-) I can answer your question with just two words: Albert Bachert. Do you really think men like Albert Bachert were concerned about their neighbors. Bachert was a criminal and he hated the police. And as you well know, he shows up way too often in press reports about this case. He fits perfectly the "classic" profile of an offender who might inject himself into an investigation. His comments following the murder of Frances Coles about again appealing to the public for financial aid are highly suspicious to say the least. And this was not the only time he appears in this type of position as head of a committee. Furthermore, the 'Dear Boss' letter expresses a greater disdain for the police than it does for prostitutes. "I'm down on whores" is not a very convincing motive. And Bachert kept associating himself with that letter in one way or another. It is also important to remember the role often played by the public house in modern times regarding various criminal activities.
Whether it is prostitution, the "fencing" of stolen goods, illegal gambling, or the collection of money for terrorist organizations, the public house is sometimes at the center of these and other criminal activities. It shouldn't be shocking that a man like Joseph Aarons as treasurer might not of had the best interest of the people of Whitechapel at hand. They made sure they weren't killing the "ordinary" women found on Mile End Road. And that is why it is important to know who everyone was and what their occupation was and whom was connected to whom. For example, there was an Isaacs on the vigilance committee. Was he related in any way to Joseph Isaacs, a major suspect in Mary Kelly's murder? Or was he the same person or related to the Isaacs that was involved with the Queens Head public house? There was a Barnett as well. Was this the Barnett that was connected to Kosminski? In Jewish Chronicle research, Aarons is frequently associated with Isaacs and with Abrahams. (Abrahams and Isaacs are two notorious Whitechapel names) Is this important? It could be. The bottom line is that it is time to take a closer look at the vigilance committee. Men like Bachert were no angels and could easily have been involved in the murders.
Rosey, I hope this was more of a "half a kidney" punch rather than a sucker-punch.
It was 'nise' to talk to you again Chris.:-)
Rob |
Author: Christopher T George
Saturday, 21 July 2001 - 08:42 am | | Hi, Rob:
Well the public houses paid an important role in the community, no question about that. But what does that mean?
I agree that Bachert bears closer scrutiny. His involvement in the Vigilance Committee appears to be later than the Lusk letter though. I may be wrong but I believe he did not join the committee until 1889. I think you have a difficult job to prove your case that the entire committee was involved in the murders. The more people you involve the more likelihood the crime would have been solved. The case was not solved more likely because this man was a loner.
You say, "Abrahams and Isaacs are two notorious Whitechapel names." Well, Rob, Abrahams and Isaacs are two Jewish names associated with Whitechapel. Again, so what? Why notorious???
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: David Radka
Saturday, 21 July 2001 - 02:33 pm | | Rob,
Thanks for your response. Much appreciated.
David |
Author: Robert Maloney
Sunday, 22 July 2001 - 09:02 am | | Hi Chris,
In response to your question regarding the public house, I was referring to the fact that the vigilance committee was meeting at either the Three Nuns in Aldgate or in the Crown, Mile End Road, the latter of which was run by Joseph Aarons, the treasurer of the committee. Naturally, if my argument is that this was really a case of extortion, I must suspect the treasurer of involvement in the scheme. And being that I believe the public house network was probably as corrupt as humanly possible, with connections to all types of criminal activity, from prostitution to stolen goods, this only helps my argument that the vigilance committee was really just a front for Whitechapel gangsters. Then you add to that the possibilty that the Bachert/Three Nuns committee was connected to waterfront trade unions and you again have a possible gangster connection. But I do agree with you about it not being a massive conspiracy. Surely, not everyone on each committee was involved. I do believe, however, that a conspiracy actually makes it more likely that the killers would get away with it rather than the other way around. I do not believe that one man could have possibly been involved in all these murders and gotten away with it. Afterall, this is why organized crime has been so successful historically. As far as when Bachert comes on the scene, I wouldn't think that matters too much because of the way organized crime normally works. Usually, people like Bachert, who probably had a criminal past, do keep a low profile initially. But he always seems on the periphery.
What I meant about Isaacs and Abrahams being two notorious Whitechapel names was that in my research of trying to find connections between all these people, Isaacs and Abrahams kept showing up when there were stories related to criminal activity. (prostitution, fencing, murder) And we all know how Barnett Abrahams murdered the officer who found Frances Coles some years later. As far as their names being Jewish, many of the Isaacs that I did research on were in fact Christians. So I wasn't making any point about their religions.
Chris, let me ask you a question. Don't you think that with all the differing various eyewitness accounts, including the man who delivered the kidney, there is room for doubt about the lone killer theory? At least room for doubt, Chris? And I have asked this question a thousand times and no one ever answers it. Do you think there could be horns on the 'saucy Jacky' postcard? And shouldn't black magic experts be consulted on the possibility of the "Dear Boss" letter being an example of black magic involvement whether a journalist wrote that letter or not?
I promise you Chris, that letter was a black magic spell and sooner or later someone will recognize it. :-) I hope.
Thanks again,
Rob |
Author: Christopher T George
Sunday, 22 July 2001 - 10:18 am | | Hi, Rob:
You asked:
Do you think there could be horns on the 'saucy Jacky' postcard?
My answer is, no, I think there is a smudge on the saucy Jacky postcard.
You also asked:
Don't you think that with all the differing various eyewitness accounts, including the man who delivered the kidney, there is room for doubt about the lone killer theory? At least room for doubt, Chris?
Yes, there is room for doubt. The possibility that there was more than one killer exists. I would be foolish to dismiss the possibility. However, as I said before, in a scenario positing two or more killers, the larger you make the net of people who either were or knew the murderers, the greater possibility that the murderers would have been identified and captured.
I believe it is significant that despite the posting of a reward for an accomplice in MJK's slaying to come forward, the police officials in their later writings all talk about one killer. Why is that? I am including here the reminiscences, for example, of Sir Robert Anderson, Sir Melville Macnaghten, Sir Henry Smith, and former Inspector Edmund Reid. I would politely submit that the reason these ex-policemen all talked about the murderer being a single individual is because there was no solid information that might have suggested that the crimes were committed by more than one man.
By the way, you mention in the second question quoted above, "all the differing various eyewitness accounts, including the man who delivered the kidney. . ." The package containing the half a kidney and the Lusk letter was delivered by the Royal Mail. Perhaps you mean the man with the beard and Irish accent who is said to have made enquiries about Lusk's address prior to arrival of the package?
Best regards
Chris George |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Sunday, 22 July 2001 - 05:02 pm | | Dear Chris,
You make some excellent points in your rebuttal as always :-)
But do not underestimate those conspiracy theorists not yet born who will subject all those named individuals who are yet 'above' suspicion to greater scrutiny than we would be willing to pursue at the present moment... (MacNaghten,Melville, and Anderson, Robert.)they whom the Ripperologists seeks?
Every tale has a reason to be told.
Rosey (-: |
Author: Robert Maloney
Monday, 23 July 2001 - 07:11 am | | Hi Chris,
I believe building any argument around the the opinions of the policemen you mention would be a serious mistake. Numerous errors can be attributed to them. They did not catch the killers because they believed there was only one killer, and therefore, if a suspect had an alibi for a given murder, they presumably felt there was insufficient evidence in pursuing that individual. Furthermore, those officers made countless mistakes when remembering the details of the murders years later. Honestly, if a leading police official conducted an investigation, today, in the year 2001, the way Anderson did during such a terrifying murder spree, that official would unquestionably be forced to resign. Too much time spent out of the country, drinking Darjeeling, to rely on his observations, I would argue. And MacNaghten? And Smith? Well, lets just say, I wouldn't want them on my witness list. Needless to say, MacNaghten was a disaster. However, I don't want to leave the impression that I believe the police did a bad job. Not at all. They did the best they could when confronted with this type of conspiracy. But the predilection of a one man killer did hurt their investigation.
And you are right. I did mean the man we "associate" with the delivery of the kidney. Not the actual delivery.
So let me re-ask one of my questions. Most people who practice any kind of magic would be most reluctant to discuss their practices in connection with the Jack the Ripper murders. And experts on black magic are probably not a dime-a-dozen. But don't you think the the 'Dear Boss' letter should be examined by someone qualified in that area? The evidence for black magic involvement in this case is very strong. I noticed the protection rune Algiz on the 'saucy Jacky' postcard instantaneously because I knew that people who practiced magic would inscribe it on their letters to guard them through the mail. And I only knew to look for it after reading the 'Dear Boss' letter which is filled with examples of folk and black magic practice. The two letters side-by-side form a very compelling case.
Rob |
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