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** This is an archived, static copy of the Casebook messages boards dating from 1998 to 2003. These threads cannot be replied to here. If you want to participate in our current forums please go to https://forum.casebook.org **
Needing Information re: Annie Chapman
Casebook Message Boards: General Discussion: Research Issues / Philosophy:
Needing Information re: Annie Chapman
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 08 August 2001 - 06:11 pm |        | ED
Can you indicate the location of the passage please?
Thanks, Jon |
Author: graziano
Thursday, 09 August 2001 - 04:57 pm | | Hello Jon,
what does the cross over some buildings mean ?
Thank you. Bye. Graziano. |
Author: Jon
Thursday, 09 August 2001 - 06:31 pm | | Hi Graz.
I have noticed that covered entrances are drawn that way, for instance the covered archway to Millers Court or the covered entrance from Mitre Square to St. James Place (St. James Passage) are also drawn that way.
Maybe Viper can illucidate.....
Regards, Jon |
Author: E Carter
Friday, 10 August 2001 - 08:46 am | | Graziano, I'm Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush yesterday to get to work, however, the best way to begin answering your post properly, is to answer, both your's, and Jon's at the same time.
PS, Could you give me either a fax number, or another route and I will send the photo concerned this way, several attempts to send via e-mail have been unsuccessful.
Jon, Graziano, Jessie..
Firstly, I have seen several maps concerning the actual structure of the International Working Mens Club, the exit concerned was directly ahead of the entrance if accessing via the alley. These doors would have taken you into a yard at the back of the club. From here, Berner Street could easily be accessed. 'Scrutinize' the the map above!
Goldstien took this same route shortly after Fanny Mortimer opened her door, because she trapped the killers in the alleyway.
If you saw one of my earlier posts, you would remember what I had said about this exit. The murderers would have had to be 'well acquainted' with the club in order to use this exit in an emergency!
Jon, you will also remember, in a private post that I mentioned my work concerning the Whitechapel murders was finished and now sitting in a box in my shed in my back garden. This includes a 15,000 word essay solving the mystery. However, I will endeavor to sort the appropriate map out and post it to you. It might take a little time, as I have had a problem posting via e-mail, and I have now moved on to something else. Best Wishes ED.
Jessie, let me quote from the alchemist's bible, the 'Specialist'. You must read this book by Charles Sale, published by Putnam and Company LTD. 20 Great Russel Street, WC1. It was costed at two shillings and six pence net.
'The Times Literary Supplement'gave this tiny book a rave review without actually understanding the content.
This concerns Lem Putt, a sanitary engineer, who speaks in the vernacular who said: 'Now about the ventilators, or the designs that I cut into doors. I can give you stars, diamonds or cresents--there ain't much choice--all give good service. A lot of people like stars because they throw a ragged shadder. Others like cresents 'cause there graceful and simple. I do cut bunches of grapes for the newly rich! ED |
Author: graziano
Friday, 10 August 2001 - 01:53 pm | | Hello Ed,
I am now in Prague.
I think it should be possible for me to use a particular fax but I must first ask for permission.
I will tell you tomorrow.
Bye. Graziano. |
Author: E Carter
Friday, 10 August 2001 - 02:21 pm | | | OK, ED. |
Author: graziano
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 01:05 pm | | Hello Ed,
this fax should make it: 0042.02.67750002.
Let us see what Hutchinson saw.
Impatiently waiting. Bye. Graziano. |
Author: E Carter
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 02:53 pm | | | Graziano, I have tried to send the picture to the number you have given, but it sound like a woman answers the phone this cuts the transmission off and therefore I could not send the picture tonight. Best Wishes ED:- Or did one come through? |
Author: E Carter
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 03:05 pm | | Jon, the map that you have shown may well be later than 1888, I have a map(somewhere) clearly showing an entrance from Batty Gardens into Berner Street. I remember clearly because I wondered if those making the noise heard by Fanny could have made it there before she reached her front door.
I must admitt to being quite an unorganized sort of person so it might take a little time to find.
An exmaple of this came to light only last week.
My wife took my daughter to Scotland for a week, and the amount plates, glasses and cups to be washed grew so large, instead of putting them in the dishwasher, I decided to throw them in the bath and wash them all in one go.
I can tell you, I still have the fork marks in my backside! ED |
Author: Jon
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 03:33 pm | | ED
I admire your logic, but dont you find they get awful soapy?, do what I do and dump them in a net and hang them in the toilet bowl, one flush will rinse them clean.
Though if you forget they are there you can still end up with knives and forks in your a**.
Such is life 
Jon
P.S. the map was undated. |
Author: E Carter
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 03:48 pm | | | I will make every effort to sort the map out, best wishes ED. |
Author: graziano
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 04:57 pm | | Hello Ed,
if you are still there, try now, it should work.
Bye. Graziano. |
Author: Rosemary O'Ryan
Saturday, 11 August 2001 - 06:31 pm | | Dear Jon,
In Ed's case...the Devil takes the hind most!
Tridentine Rose :-) |
Author: E Carter
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 12:53 pm | | | Graziano, sorry I was not here for your post. In London it is now 1750, I will fax the photo at around 1945 London time. ED. |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 01:24 pm | | Excuse me, but I notice there is a Board School
on Berner Street. What is a Board School? A
Boarding School? If so, why is it in a lower
class, working district? Has anybody any
information on this school.
Jeff |
Author: Jon
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 01:52 pm | | Jeff
There was also one in Bucks Row, these were Boarding Schools and were likely in existance prior to the demise of the general area.
The East End was not a total slum, the East End slums were the worst in London, but that is not meant to suggest that the whole of the East End was a slum.
Regards, Jon |
Author: E Carter
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 03:18 pm | | Graziano, it was good to speak to you on the phone. If the photo's were of poor quality the quality reduction happened in transimssion, as the quality of the photo's that I sent to you from this end was quite good.
However, I will endevour to send better via -mail, or give me some sort of postal address if possible, I can then send good photo's of the man question. I am off to work now I will be on the boards tomorrow. Best Wishes ED |
Author: graziano
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 04:35 pm | | Hello Ed,
thank you again and very much.
The second photo is very good.
As you called I just, but really just, entered the room after having been out from this morning.
Quite amazing.
I take it as a birthday present.
Yes, because next Shabbat (18 of August), I will be, I know you will not believe it but I swear it is true...............39.
To describe the guy (without rethoric):
- in the picture he should be around 25.
- dark hair, difficult to state the complexion (absolutely nor very dark neither very fair), seems like he lost hair on the temples, does not look he wears moustache on the photo,
- very regular general features,
- undoubtedly open, wide and clever (oh yes, clever) eyes,
- does not seem to have very pronounced eyebrows,
- regular nose, not small,
- regular mouth, quite wide, regular lips,
- regular and shaved chin,
- no whiskers,
- quite big ears, low positioned in the face,
- seems normal build,
generally speaking quite beautiful guy, absolutely inspiring affection, sympathy and confidence.
Cannot frighten. Absolutely impossible.
If he is Jack (and personally I have no reason to doubt it), that is sincerly impressive.
Does he look like a "foreigner" ?
I have known "foreigners" looking more "foreigners" than him but absolutely looks more like a "foreigner" or mediterranean than an anglo-saxon.
Bye and thank you again.
Graziano. |
Author: The Viper
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 05:12 pm | | Jeff, Jon, Regarding the term 'Board School'.
Prior to 1870 provision of elementary education was piecemeal. Schools were run by a variety of different agencies. Then in 1870 came Forster’s Education Act; the first attempt by the state to provide nationwide, elementary education across Britain.
Under the terms of the Act it became compulsory for local authorities to create a school board to run elementary schools in their area if the local ratepayers demanded it. Hence standard, state primary schools were known as Board Schools. Attendance was not compulsory at first, and there was a system of modest fees, typically 2d or 3d per week.
In the case of London specifically, an amendment to the Act as it went through Parliament led to the creation of a single school board for the whole of the Metropolis, then covering 117 square miles and 3.25 million people.
Several pieces of additional legislation followed so that by 1891 the education system was both universal and free.
Thus the two schools referred to were not schools for fee-paying boarders in the private sector. Rather, they were day schools attended by ordinary children from their respective localities. In fact, the Board School at Berner Street was the first one to open in London.
Regards, V. |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 06:16 pm | | Jon and Viper, thanks for your responses. My
next question is easy to guess. How were teachers
for a Board School hired? Could they be moonlighting or working part-time, from other
jobs at other schools like one in Blackheath?
Is it likely that after 113 years the records of
who were teaching at that school in the Fall of
1888 still be existance?
Jeff |
Author: Jon
Sunday, 12 August 2001 - 08:54 pm | | | Ah, do I detect a Druitt connection? |
Author: E Carter
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 09:47 am | | Graziano, The photo was take in 1891, he does have a small moustache; but these things can be removed, or grown.
He was brought up a Hassidic Jew, until, like many others, he became an extreme anarchist, and this, indeed is the man seen by Hutchinson! ED.
Cryptic writing was the forte of Hassid Jews!
And his is why he had the skills to include a message: 'hate the Jew' into the top two lines of the grafitti, when reading, forward and down up, from the 'h', in 'that' to the end of the lines.
Then going to the beginning, of lines one and two, and reading from the 'T' in 'The', up down to the 'w' in Juwes in the same fashion.
He developed an acute on chronic, psychotic paranoid illness soon after this photo was taken.
Graziano, this is our man!
Everybody knows his name! But at the moment please keep the photo to yourself Best Wishes ED. |
Author: E Carter
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 03:05 pm | | | P.S when placing a hat on his head and pulling the front down, he looks both older and more surley; as described by Hutchinson. Best Wishes ED. |
Author: The Viper
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 06:17 pm | | Jeff,
To answer your question honestly, I don't know how teachers were appointed. It would seem reasonable to guess that they were appointed by the local School Board. I believe the positions were full-time postes.
The idea that teachers from private schools were 'moonlighting' in these schools sounds very unlikely to me. In Druitt's case, what with his teaching job at Blackheath, his legal career and all the sport he played, it doesn't sound like he'd have had the time for it anyway!
Regards, V. |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 09:31 pm | | Dear Viper and Jon,
Hardly a Druitt connection, unless somebody showed
I was stumbling on something here. It is just that if there was a connection, how fortuitous that a school was near one of the death sites.
If one could show Druitt did moonlight (and Viper
is right - why should he?), he might have had a
key, and thus fast access to a local building to
hide in while the hue and cry was going on. It
seems as advantageous as the use of his rooms at
the inns of court (or was it the Old Bailey?) that
were several miles off. Anyway, I won't lose any
sleep over this, and I suspect nobody else will
either.
Regards,
Jeff |
Author: R.J.P.
Monday, 13 August 2001 - 10:12 pm | | | Jeff--Hi. I think sometimes schools must have stooped to merely advertising in the papers. While digging through the advertisement columns in some 1889 editions of the Times a couple of weeks ago (looking for something else) I did notice a couple of schools advertising for teachers. In the case of Druitt, I think that "moonlighting" would be the wrong phrase. According to some at least--I think it was either Dan Farson or Tom Cullen or both-- Druitt was most probably only a sort of 'live-in' resident assistant who didn't actually do much if any teaching, but stayed at the school and kept an eye on the boys at night while Valentine was away. This would makes sense in that Druitt could go into London and attend to his legal practice during the day, and return to Blackheath at night. As a sometimes Druittist, I have wondered whether Druitt's offense might have been his straying from Blackheath during the night and this is what led to his getting the sack. But this is pure unadulterated speculation. RP |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 09:16 pm | | RJP - The problem with Druitt will always be the
walls of silence regarding the man's school career, his failed (or possibly failed) legal
career, and the type of rumours that Macnaughten
learned of that made him put the man on his list.
You bring out an interesting point about Druitt
staying out from Blackheath at night when he
was to be working, but if that was the cause of
his dismissal, unless it involved discovering an
unsavory reason for being out at night (or a reason that looked suspicious) it would have not
been hushed up. It would have been a dismissal
based on a stupid blunder, but not a matter of
possible horror. In short, Montague would hate
to think of losing a job for such a stupid reason,
but it would not (possibly) be praying on his mind.
Jeff |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 14 August 2001 - 10:41 pm | | David Anderson, a longtime Druitt researcher (once hired by Dan Farson) was working on another book last year when I communicated with him. I had the impression we would not have to wait long and he told me he has unearthed new interesting, significant information on Montague J. Druitt.
We wait with baited breath.....
Regards, Jon |
Author: Jeff Bloomfield
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 09:11 pm | | I join the heady anticipation about Monty Druitt
and what Mr. Anderson discovers.
Regards, Jeff |
Author: Chris Michetti
Wednesday, 15 August 2001 - 11:02 pm | | | Sounds interesting. I am curious as well. |
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