Author: Matt Spencer
Saturday, 03 February 2001 - 01:12 pm |        |
| That's what I'm looking for, specifically info on the tavern/party/prostitution night life, with info on things like opium dens, gangs, pimps and prostitutes, etc. |
Author: Scott Nelson
Thursday, 08 February 2001 - 12:28 am | |
| Can anyone tell me if there was a Drury Lane in Whitechapel, or was it always located in Strand? |
Author: Martin Fido
Thursday, 08 February 2001 - 08:56 am | |
Hi, Scott,
My 'History of London in Maps' indicates nothing except Drury Lane and its extension Drury Court running from old Wych St (very loosely where Aldwych is now) to the Strand. Drury Lane is named on Wenceslaus Hollar's 1658 map. there was also a mapmaker called Andrew Drury living nearby in the 18th century. Never heard of a Drury anything in the East End, I fear.All the best,
Martin Fido |
Author: Thomas Slemen
Wednesday, 21 March 2001 - 07:55 pm | |
Martin, can you tell me where Spectacle Alley was in Whitechapel, and if possible, did anybody ever check out the address 305 Bethnal Green Road? This latter address, and the name Frank Carter, was, as I am sure you know, printed on a card found at the scene of the Eddowes murder.
I would be immensely grateful of any information you can provide. |
Author: Martin Fido
Wednesday, 21 March 2001 - 11:59 pm | |
Thomas - I have a faint memory of having seen a picture of Spectacle alley once: probably in the Greater London Archives. I haven't any reference books with me that will identify it, and if Paul's Magnum Opus on London can't help you and you haven't got access to london, i can't at this point help.
Somebody certainly has checked out that address: I can't remember what they found, but I'm pretty sure it was a dead end. (A quick check through Feldman's and Sugden's and Harrison's and Begg's and Evans & Gainey's indexes has turned up nothing, which makes me wonder whether the checking up actually dead-ended on bobody's finding a street directory which gave any useful iformation of any kind).
Sorry to be so useless,
Martin F |
Author: A.M.P.
Thursday, 22 March 2001 - 03:47 am | |
Tom,
Spectacle Alley ran west out of Church Street, Whitechapel, connecting it to a wide bit of pavement on the south side of Whitechapel High Street. Effectively it just cut the corner off. Though the alley - which is only about 50 yards long - is still there today, it may be called something different now. To find it on a modern map, locate the corner of WHS and Osborn Street and look directly beneath it.
Since you are still asking about the Frank Cater calling card I shall put one more marker on the appropriate board. |
Author: Peter R.A. Birchwood
Thursday, 22 March 2001 - 11:35 am | |
Tom:
In the 1881 Census the only Frank Carter in Bethnal Green is a 17-year-old brushmaker then lodging with George Povey (a Carman) and his wife Martha at 1 New Square Bethnal Green. That address and the neighbouring streets seem to have disapeared so I can't say how close it was to 305 Bethnal Green Road.
By the way, what happened to your web site? |
Author: Jon
Tuesday, 27 March 2001 - 08:40 pm | |
Open question...
I was going to ask Viper, but knowing he's such a busy guy these days I thought I might throw it open to anyone.
Another budding Ripperologist on One-list has asked if anyone would know of a military veterans hospital in or around the East End in the late 1880's, maybe near the London Hospital?
Location?
Thanks, Jon |
Author: Lyn Bentley
Wednesday, 28 March 2001 - 05:32 pm | |
Jon;
A shot in the dark.. try this URL:
http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/institute.html#hosp
I haven't waded through the long list myself, but might be worth a try.
Regards,
Lyn |
Author: Jon
Wednesday, 28 March 2001 - 08:32 pm | |
Thankyou Much.
I'll be sure to pass this on, You gave me a gendocs site before I think, listing policemen who were on sick leave in 1888 and a few other list's, thanks for reminding me about 'gendocs'.
(so why so silent these days?)
Best regards, Jon |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 29 March 2001 - 10:20 am | |
Hi, Lyn:
Yes we do miss you. Do nae stay stae lang awae agin, lassie.  
Indeed, Lyn, as Jon indicates, if you have the gendocs site listing policemen who were on sick leave in 1888 and any other lists that might be useful, please give us the URLs. Also it might be good for Dave Yost to have them to post on the CP site. Thanks, Lyn. I will owe you a drink at the 2002 US Convention in Baltimore next April  , hoping that you can make it to our little shindig with Don Rumbelow as you did to the last one with Paul Begg (who has said he will be with us for the new get together as well!). 
Chris |
Author: Lyn Bentley
Thursday, 29 March 2001 - 09:54 pm | |
You're very welcome, Jon - hope your buddy finds the site useful!
The recent silence? Due to several stressful and sweaty weeks of preparation for my nursing evaluation - THANKFULLY over with, and (amazingly) passed. Appreciate you asking!
..Aw - thanks Chris :-) I'll try to cram some internet search time into my day (anything for the offer of a drink..). I'll also see what I have listed in my bookmarks - will post any URLs that looks remotely interesting as soon as I have a moment.
Best to all of you,
Lyn |
Author: Jon
Thursday, 29 March 2001 - 11:42 pm | |
Well done Lass.
Congratulations, I'm sure your newly gained medical (nursing) expertise will come in handy in refereeing some of the choking/strangling discussions :-)
Best regards, Jon |
Author: Lyn Bentley
Sunday, 01 April 2001 - 05:38 pm | |
Hi Chris and all;
I think the following may be the site that Jon mentioned..
http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/victorian.html
I haven't been able to find the list that specifically mentions policemen who were on sick leave during 1888, but hopefully you'll find something of interest here.
All the best!
Lyn |
Author: Neil K. MacMillan
Saturday, 07 April 2001 - 07:02 pm | |
| Hi All, Was Martha Tabram also killed in the Whitechapel Spitalfields area? I Haven't heard from you in a while Chris, The computer was acting a bit buggery. Have a great week end Neil |
Author: Richard P. Dewar
Saturday, 07 April 2001 - 09:24 pm | |
Hi Neil,
Yes, Martha Tabram was found dead on George Yard off of Wentworth St.
Rich |
Author: Scott Nelson
Saturday, 07 April 2001 - 11:09 pm | |
| Does anyone know (circ 1888-89)if there was a "St. George" Street in Whitechapel, Spitalfields or St.-Georges-in-the-East? How about a "Manchester Court" in Aldgate? Any feedback would be welcomed. |
Author: Jon
Sunday, 08 April 2001 - 10:01 am | |
Scott
Please see the street listings below for London:
St George Street, Mayfair / Soho W1R [1997]
St George Street, ST GEORGE IN THE EAST: ST PAUL [1851]
St George Street, St George in the East, ST GEORGE IN THE EAST [1862]
St George Street, St Matthew, ST GEORGE IN THE EAST [1862]
But only one:
Manchester Court, Westminster [1749]
Regards, Jon
Courtesy of:
http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/lon-str.html |
Author: Neil K. MacMillan
Wednesday, 23 May 2001 - 02:29 pm | |
| Chris, Martin or anyone who might know. I'm six pages into the rough draft and find I need a photo or discription of the interior of the Ten Bells and the Britannia pubs. While I have been in English pubs before and there do seem to be common fixtures to all, Would there be individualistic differences that would affect the "reality" of the setting if it was omitted? Thanks in advance. Kindest reguards, Neil |
Author: Paul Begg
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 04:15 am | |
Hi Neil
I don't think anybody knows what the interior of the Britannia was like and whether it had any individualistic features. Pubs were and to a degree remain unique, often making a feature of some peculiarity and in the case of the Ten Bells the wall tiles would have made a difference. Of course, the interior layout was differnt in 1888 too, the pub being divided into several small bars and the bar itself being the horse-shoe shape so typical of London corner pubs. |
Author: Grailfinder
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 09:45 am | |
Hi Guys
With ref to the interior of the Britannia;
I recall reading somewhere that the Britannia was not a true pub, but an alehouse. Licensed to sell beer but not spirits and so would not have the appearance of a normal pub, rather it was just somebodys (MR & MRS Ringers?) front parlour fitted with a few pumps and barrels?
Whilst on the subject of the Ringers, has anyone got any info on MR & MRS Ringer? Were they married? I read that her husband had died a few years before the murders, so who was the new guy? a lover perhaps or just a hired hand?
I ask because of a conversation I had a few months ago with a mate about the Eddowes murder.
Kate was known to have said she knew who Jack was and we agreed that she had probably met with someone on the day she died who had given her money to get drunk. Later she is found to be pretending to be a fire engine?
At this point my mate asked me what noise an 1880s fire engine made? and I didn't have a clue, what do you guys think?
We assumed it would have been a normal brass bell? so this means Kate was shouting either "Clang alang Alang" "Ding aling Aling" or my favorite "Ringa ring aRing" or should that be Ringer, Ringer?
I wish there was more info on the new man in Mrs Ringers life, who was he? any ideas anyone?
cheers GF |
Author: Paul Begg
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 10:59 am | |
The photo of the exterior of the Brittania shows an establishment of substantial proportions, so it was a bit more than a front parlour. I would dearly love to know what it was like inside.
Cheers!
Paul |
Author: Grailfinder
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 12:13 pm | |
Hi Paul
I agree, the photo you speak of shows an established Pub, but this photo I believe was taken around 1912 and a lot can change in 24years? Maybe the old Alehouse was promoted to a fully licensed boozer and raised in status to the place we see in the photo. Wasn't there something about early researchers getting confused with the location of the "Ringers" with the Ten Bells? or because the old maps show a Ph (Public House) on the west corner of Dorset St, but none on the Eastern Corner where the Britannia stood, the reason being that it was not a licensed PH so was left off the map?
cheers GF |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 02:07 pm | |
Hi, Grailfinder:
I believe the type of fire engine that Kate Eddowes emulated would have been a steam engine similar, I believe, to the one shown in the following image. This is an American horsedrawn 1901 LaFrance steam engine seen here which saw service in Brooklyn, but I believe British steam fire engines would have been similar. Such fire engines were known as "steamers." In addition to any sounds of ringing that Kate might have made I believe she would have huffed and puffed a lot.
All the best
Chris
 |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 02:14 pm | |
| |
Author: Christopher T George
Thursday, 24 May 2001 - 02:17 pm | |
| Ah, well, I will try again tonight. |
Author: Goryboy
Tuesday, 16 April 2002 - 10:55 am | |
Hi, all:
I'm frantically trying to research any and all personnel employed at London Hospital, nearby morgues, post-mortem rooms, mortuaries, etc., with the idea that Jack may have been employed in some capacity at some time prior to or during the Whitechapel killings.
I'm doing this because at least one doctor at the time opined that the murderer demonstrated some surgical skill or was at least acquainted with the post-mortem room. That, plus Tim Mosely's excellent article in Ripper Notes ("The Bucks Row Flyer"), indicating he may have committed his first killling injudiciously near his place of work or residence, has put me in this particular trail.
Please let me know if any of you have any ideas as to how and where I might pursue personnel lists pertaining to Whitechapel area surgeries, mortuaries, post-mortem rooms, etc. Thus far, I've contacted the London Metropolitan Archive and the Royal London Hospital Archives and Museum. An archivist at the latter, Mr. Jonathan Evans, responded to my recent email enquiry, indicating the records he knew of. I list them below in case anyone else cares to follow up on this particular line of research.
From Mr. Evans:
Dear Mr Fogarty
Thanks for your email.
We have the following records in the London Hospital archives:
LH/A/21/1
House Governor's register of officers and servants (with index)
1887 - 1893
(this has a page headed P[ost] M[ortem] Attendant, with details and a letter concerning John Mc Hardy Angus, appointed September 1889)
LH/A/21/6,7
Registers of lay staff surnames A-E c. 1883 - 1942
surnames F-L c. 1883 - 1942
The London Hospital House Committee Minutes may also contain
relevant material:
LH/A/5/42 Minutes 1884 - 1886
LH/A/5/43 Minutes 1886 - 1888
LH/A/5/44 Minutes 1889 - 1891
LH/A/5/42 Index 1875 - 1886
LH/A/5/42 Index 1886 - 1896
We don't have any records for Whitechapel Mortuary or other mortuaries in the area for the period you are researching.
Please telephone me if you would like to make an appointment to see any of the above records
Yours sincerely,
Jonathan Evans
Archivist
Royal London Hospital
tel 020 7377 7608
Jonathan Evans
Archivist
Royal London Hospital Archives and Museum
Whitechapel
London E1 1BB
020 7377 7608
Am v. interested to hear from anyone else intrigued by this possibility. I'm sure personnel records and lists of medical students of the day have been thoroughly raked over by this time, but I wonder if such is the case with peripheral personnel, clean up grunts and other mortuary room or post-mortem room attendants?
Cheerio,
John |
