| Author |
Message |
    
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 129
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 8:57 pm: | 
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I'm up for a go at Wescott. Does anyone remember where this flap involving him pointing out what he termed a "threat" to Julie started? I'd like to cite the original postings. Thank you.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 527
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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I'd highly recommend against having a "go at Wescott", big guy. And the thread you're referring to is "Tumblety: Best suspect yet". Actually, what I said was that your post sounded threatening and was creepy. Numerous other people posted as well suggesting it as threatening. I then posted and pointed at to Julie that you likely meant no personal threat by it, you just think she lacks sense cuz you're a genius and we're all inbred. I think I also implied you're a homosexual, but that was just for fun. In any event, why'd you pull my name out of thin air all the sudden here? Did ol' Howie Brown have you backed into a corner? Tired of following Norder around the boards picking fights? You're welcome to follow me around the boards for a while until I tire of it, but I don't think you will.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Where are your buddies, Scott & Mephisto? |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 718
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 1:51 pm: |
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Hello All
I was going to mention the Thames Nude Murderer or Jack The Stripper as bearing certain similarities to JTR. But rather than making a case to back up my reasoning I will follow the thread.
Women who live together seem to invariably allow nature to adjust their menstrual cycles so that they are all having there menses at the same time. Therefore, this is one simple way to tell when female housemates are menstruating.
I also have heard people claim that their sense of smell allows them to tell when a woman is menstruating. The anonymous author of My Secret Life made this claim; but I rather suspect this was vainglorious boasting as he was prone to claim to be an expert in all matters relating to the distaff side of the human species.
It is true that menstruation didn't exist during the reign of Queen Victoria.
We were taught in criminal law to be very wary of labels used by psychiatric diagnosticians. It seems that the labels are ever changing and evolving. Sociopath, psychopath, psychopathic lust killer, psychopathic sexual serial killer, etc., seem to be attempts to define and then redifine a cluster of symptoms. The problem lies in the attempt to lump these killers together with a pat definition when in actual fact they are actually displaying a number of tendencies, behaviors and symptoms of mental illness. We were also told that psychiatrists often enter that field of medical specialization for the wrong reasons. To be specific, they sometimes seek to find some type of self realization as to their own behavioural tendencies. But I wasn't supposed to repeat that so you didn't hear it from me.
All The Best
Gary |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3472
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 2:11 pm: |
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David,
i said it to. but i am always grateful for an opportunity to point out you havent apologised.
Jenni
"The sun'll come out,Tomorrow,So ya gotta hang on Til tomorrow, Come what may"
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3560
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 5:14 pm: |
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Mr Westcott-
An apology is SERIOUSLY NEEDED HERE!!!!
More to the point back to the periodical discussion!
Suzi
(hoping for what passes for sanity here!
Where were we!!!!!!????? |
Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 530
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 5:54 pm: |
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Suzi,
Are you referring to David's apology to Julie, or suggesting that I should be apologizing for something? As for David, any apology this long after the event would be insincere.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1325
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 6:43 pm: |
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Dear Gary:
Thanks for pointing out that people involved in law and law enforcement, unlike accountants and roofers,both fine trades to be sure, are reminded of the different opinions within the psychiatric field. Accountants may dream of being a psychiatrist or a Robert Hare when they grow up,but they are out of the loop compared to those involved in the legal field. Thanks for this reminder.
In particular, this portion of your excellent post stands out:
" We were also told that psychiatrists often enter that field of medical specialization for the wrong reasons. To be specific, they sometimes seek to find some type of self realization as to their own behavioural tendencies."
One of the smartest people on these boards [ a lady ] once remarked to me that its possible that we as posters and/or theorists "select" suspects based on our own personality type too. She didn't say everyone...but more than a few. I think she might be right in general.
Glad to see you post this Gary...
(Message edited by howard on January 04, 2006) |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 719
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 9:47 pm: |
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Hi Howard
I would very much have liked to have read the post you refer to wherein the lady you mention makes a connection between a given personality type tending to theorize based on their own personality structure. This would obviously be a subconscious motivation, but it is precisely in accord with the way many people tend to form their opinions.
I firmly believe some people can only see the world through the limited perspective of the innermost workings of their own minds. Everything they see and experience has to be filtered through their own subconscious motivations and/or personal experiences to be accepted. Otherwise it must be ignored or rejected out of hand. What seems to distinguish some people from others is the ability to recognize whether or not they are reasoning objectively and outside those personal experiences and subjective motivations.
If your reasoning is objective you form your views based on evidence. It strikes me that your views would then tend to be flexible rather than immutable as new evidence and arguments are put forward. This doesn't mean a person can't put forward a theory and back it up with sound reasoning. That is what I almost invariably see on these boards.
However, some people put forth a theory and cling to it as if was bestowed upon them from some divine inspiration. They reject all arguments contrary to their own and further entrench themselves deeper and deeper into their own obdurate perspective. Some might even choose to attack people with contrary views. Some might even come across as misanthropic.
I used to believe that it was ego driving this type of personality, but I am starting to come to the conclusion it is more complicated than that. Now I tend to believe that what comes across as unmitigated hubris is actually a fear of some undefined nature. After all everything negative and discordant and out of synch in the human mind that expresses itself to others may really be self-loathing turned outward.
Just some observations.
All The Best
Gary |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1327
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 10:33 pm: |
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Dear Gary:
Terrific post sir. Very glad to see you participating once more on the site. Your absence has been conspicuous.
"I would very much have liked to have read the post you refer to wherein the lady you mention makes a connection between a given personality type tending to theorize based on their own personality structure."
Actually Gary...it wasn't a post. It was mentioned during a conversation between myself and Alegria "Ally" Reineke. She said it.
I was going to reply at length to your post,but it would detract from its impact. It should stand as is. Thanks very much again for posting it.
Hope that back is better,by the way....
How |
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 130
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 11:48 pm: |
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Mr. Weatherhead wrote:
"What seems to distinguish some people from others is the ability to recognize whether or not they are reasoning objectively and outside those personal experiences and subjective motivations."
>>A typical cramped perspective offered by a true Brit. Next we'll hear about David Hume and the objectivity of skeptical empiricism. But I prefer the Nietzschean view, where everyone is involved in a fight to the death with everyone else. We get our truth from lies, our freedom from slavery, under such circumstances. Our "personal experiences and subjective motivation," so pouted over above, are as likely to be responsible for the best of things as the worst. As Nietzsche says, nature eternally tries to make a successful creature, and once and awhile quite by chance, it succeeds.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5504
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:30 am: |
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Unless I'm much mistaken, Gary's Canadian.
Robert |
Spiro
Detective Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 58
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 2:46 am: |
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Hi Gary,
Just a short note to say that I agree with and appreciate your post very much. I think you make some very relevant points on the way the Ripper's crimes are perceived by researchers and how that may influence both suspect and investigative bias.
I would like to add that what you say about individuals may also apply to a consensus of opinion on any given suspect by a group. For a researcher to enter the consensus of that group would also entail taking on its prejudices as well as its solutions.
David,
You appear to have become some sort of Mascot figure for the Casebook site. A personage around whom people gather. Quite a talent really, have you ever considered editing your own periodical something such as "The Radka Rag" would be a hit I'm sure.
Congratulations on having reached the pinnacle of the evolutionary food-chain, though I dare say that you are in competition for that position with Mr Ivor Edwards.
Ecce Homo |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3479
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:49 am: |
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he seems to live in America.
Hi Gary!!!!
"The sun'll come out,Tomorrow,So ya gotta hang on Til tomorrow, Come what may"
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:11 am: |
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Once again,"someone" made an assumption at the outset of one of his "groundbreaking" diatribes,which makes the inevitably irrelevant post worthless.
Mr. Weatherhead is a South Carolinian. Thats in the United States..
Instead of taking the extra moment to verify Gary's origin, someone automatically went into high gear and used the worn-out anti-British perspective on the "cold..empirical.." stuff.
Hare left off "excessively dogmatic" from his checklist. |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3484
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:43 am: |
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i mean if your going to take over an entire thread and then insult an entire nation - for no good reason - at least get it right!!
"I bid him look into the lives of men as though into a mirror"
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George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 977
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:48 am: |
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Ah, we in the United Kingdom are above Radka's silly little problems. He's just a jealous old lady who can't walk around the murder sites when he wants. Must be such a hassle for him that people point and laugh all the time. There might be an issue if his Anglo-xenophobia had any basis in reality, or if any of us were actually in the least bothered or interested in his inherant racism, but we're not. I just find him either boring or enjoy watching him cut himself off from more and more people as he digs his hole deeper and deeper. Come on then David, let me join the gang of lowly serfs who dare to question The Jedi Master. It'll give me a laugh. 
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 720
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:38 am: |
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Hi All
I was born in Canada and live and practice in in South Carolina. I left Canada in 1982. To pursue a second degree in Louisiana. I have resided in the land of "Uncle Sam" ever since.
If the assumption is that I am a true Brit and that forms the basis and structure of my perspectives than who am I to argue. It is just simply wrong and any conclusions derived from it would therefore be subject to a good degree of incorrect assumptions.
I don't have any problem with the "Nietzschean view" and anyone who cares to adopt it and form some part of their belief system upon it are certainly free to do so. I would tend to avoid it for myself personally as I have found that if relied upon too heavily it brings out a certain 'me and my pure human will against the world' type of attitude. I have found that can be counterproductive to an ever evolving view of the human experience. More importantly it leads some people being overly disputatious and that is counterproductive to the ability to allow your own views to evolve and change.
I like to think of my attitudes and views as being derived from the analysis of a number of eclectic sources, views and philosophies.
I try not to judge others belief systems. I am more prone to just making observations and draw conclusions as derived therefrom.
But first, foremost and always to each his own.
All The Best
Gary |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3486
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:53 am: |
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Hey Gary,
that is one of the best answers ever!!
Jenni
"I bid him look into the lives of men as though into a mirror"
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Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 533
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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Yeah, and most Brits and Canadians don't hate Americans. Please.
I think words such as 'xenophobia' and 'racism' are thrown around way too freely these days. They're 'buzz words'. I seriously, seriously doubt anyone who's been posting on these boards for a length of time would be xenophobic, since there's such diversity (another buzz word). Okay, so we're all white. Race-wise, we're about as diverse as a Klan rally, but speaking internationally, the Casebook is a melting pot, and it can't be doubted that this is one of the great draws of the site.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 692
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
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Dear Mr Radka,
Since I'm not posting this on your A R thread -- so I'm not breaking any Founding Principals -- you can't BOYCOTT this post (the lower half of the boards is all about sharing personal thoughts and views, my friend)  I do, however, ask that you not respond to this, unless you can keep it to two or three sentences, as we like to keep things down at this end of the boards free from several yards of senseless diatribe. (This is a clutter-free area, and only posts that are four inches or less in length are allowed -- Lower Half of the Boards Founding Principal No. 2, I think -- dunno, though, as I never read rules of any kind.)
Anyway, I'm having another rough nicotine deprived day, and I find that it helps to keep my fingers busy, and I'm hoping that if you can't or won't answer in three or less sentences (I will BOYCOTT anything else -- I simply can't be bothered to wade through paragraph after paragraph of utter nonsense that I can't begin to understand) someone else will be able to answer my genuine query.. (because I really honestly would like to know.)
So, if anyone else can help me out.. (I think I'd prefer that.)
What in the world did that nice Mr Norder, that Howard "cute 'n' cuddly" Brown and Tom Wescott do to you that pissed you off so much??  I mean, I know that Thomas Wescott has prettier hair than me (*POUT*) so I should like him even less than you apparently do, but he's also a pretty nice guy (and I can forgive the hair issue). So, what's with the stalking these three individuals all over the boards? I think all but two percent of Casebookers are tired of this crap, Hon. It really is time to stop.
Oh, and I'm still clueless as to what constitutes a psychopath, even though I'm apparently one of them.
Have a nice day 
Mrs Hollifield 
(Sorry, but I've been waiting to do that for a long time..) 
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
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Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 693
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Apologies..
I got trigger happy, and forgot to say, "please now resume discussion about the topic in question". I'm actually learning a lot about feminine qualities I'd never known before.
Dear Stephen,
I am resuming my self-imposed quiet time. Thanks for allowing me that last one, though.
Everyone else,
Expect your in-boxes to be bombarded (as I'm trying not to post so much).
Gary,
It's lovely to see you back!
Love,
Lyn x
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3044
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
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Tom
just a minor correction.
I happen to be of mixed race, and very proud of it... so not all white I'm afraid. |
Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 535
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:42 pm: |
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Mixed race, hmmm...mixed with what? You looked pretty white on that photo...or was that one of the dogs? 
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Eduardo Zinna is also a noteworthy exception. But, as in all things, the exception doesn't negate the rule. I just think it's fascinating, if not a bit odd, that 99.9% of Ripperologists are white. It makes me wonder why the case has no pull for others. Interest in the case transcends nations with ease, but not race barriers. Strange.
P.S.S. I'm happy to hear you're proud not to be 100% white. Now, had you said "I'm 100% white and very proud of it", guess what people would be calling you...(insert 'buzz word' here). |
Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 537
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:52 pm: |
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Mrs. Hollifield,
Has someone sold you photos of my hair??? How'd you know how great my hair is??? Ever since the exquisiteness of my mop drove Kelly LeBrock out of the business I've tried to keep it under wraps, so to speak. In any case, I'm certain your hair is just fine...by mortal standards, of course. 
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 698
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 3:59 pm: |
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Tom, I do believe that you are the last Ripperologist-but-one to have seen pictures of my dress. (And don't think I won't send 'em..  )
Love,
Mrs H x
(Did you just call me a mortal? Or was that a typo and you were meaning I was moral? Either way I'm confused.. I didn't realise I was remotely either.)
Back to the topic!!
(Message edited by lindsey on January 05, 2006)
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3047
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
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Yes, Tom
I may look white but I am not.
My grandfather came from India to Cambridge between the wars to study, and met my grandmother there.
He was very much part of Gandhi’s movement to free India, and was eventually banished from England as an agitator, being put on the rail boat for Calais where he was later found murdered.
My grandmother left holding the baby. My father.
Very famous case actually.
I just don’t have the time to research it.
Too busy with the weather. |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 699
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 4:51 pm: |
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Hi everyone, again,
(Giving up smoking is much easier than cutting down on posting for some of us..  )
I have another serious question. Seriously.
Am I the only person who doesn't see any 'ripping' comparison between the 'Ripper' murders and any others serial murders? I know I haven't always been on this planet, but at this moment in time I simply can't recall ripping similarities in all the TC books I've read. Please put me straight, someone.
Thank you.
Love,
Lyn x
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3564
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:37 pm: |
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Hi Lyn and AP .....Im still smoking! or maybe just steaming gently!
Im a half breed as some may say...My Mother was from Wales and I spent a lot of my childhood and making up my mind stuff there!!!!
Suzi |
Dan Norder
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 1095
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:41 pm: |
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Sorry once again for the off topic bit, though most of it here is, so not a huge deal...
David Radka subscribes to an übermensch fight to the death survival of the fittest philosophy...?
Good lord, and I thought the story I read somewhere about a hispanic boy who wanted to join a white supremacist group was strange. It's not so much a duck out of water story as it is a duck trudging off to the kitchen of a fancy French restaurant while carrying an orange and asking, "Hey, I'm bored. Is there anyway I could help you guys out? Whatchya cooking?" story.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 722
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 6:43 pm: |
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Hi All
The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, did some pretty fierce ripping with objects like a sharpened screwdriver. There are others, one I recall was the Austin TX Ripper whom I started a thread on years ago. However, you make a good point true ripper/evisceration style murders
are the certainly the exception rather than the rule with serial killers.
All The Best
Gary
-Sorry to hear your psychotic-however you seem to be handling it with aplomb and good grace. |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 706
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:43 pm: |
|
Thanks Gary. I'm trying 
Appreciate the Sutcliffe info. I should have remembered that.
Love,
Lyn x
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
|
David Radka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dradka
Post Number: 131
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 7:57 pm: |
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Mr. Norder asked: "David Radka subscribes to an übermensch fight to the death survival of the fittest philosophy...?"
>>I subscribe to no such thing. Neither does Nietzsche have such a position. Mr. Norder knows nothing about Nietzsche.
David M. Radka
Author: "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders"
Casebook Dissertations Section
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Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 538
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 8:57 pm: |
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Mrs. Hollifield,
I'd be delighted to see your wedding pics. My e-mail address is tcwes@aol.com. And regarding JTR's similarities. There are superficial similarities you could draw to numerous serial killers. But, in truth, there really hasn't been another one like him at all.
AP,
Sounds like you had a totally awesome grandfather. I'll admit I don't know much about that part of history, but why in hell would England kick a guy out just because he wants to free India? I presume he wasn't a violent 'agitator'? So, your grandpa was Indian, your grandma was white, which made your father mixed. Then, presumably, your mom is a white lady, so you'd only be a quarter Indian. I SUPPOSE that might count as mixed, though any children you might have (assuming there mother was white) would be white. When you check 'race' on forms, do you mark 'white/caucasian' or 'other'? Anyway, here in America there are a lot of peeps who point 5 generations back to say 'look, I'm an Indian (feather, not dot)!'because they long so much to feel that they belong to a 'culture'. America has no culture. We have Elvis. Although I know far less than I'd like to, I probably know more now about English history than American history. Isn't that weird?
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. I'm like a 3rd or 4th generation American. My family came from England (I've got some German in me, but I hate saur kraut, so I don't usually count that). Look up the 'Earl of Wescott' sometime. One of my descendants. |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 707
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 10:07 pm: |
|
Okies, Tom!
On their way!
(Wrong thread, I know, but I agree completely about Jessica Simpson. Good grief, she reminds me of the chick who sang that dreadful "I'm a Barbie Girl".)
Love,
Lyn x
**Nicotine withdrawls are evil** but being a psychopath is much more exiting.. (Dan is really really scared -- it's cutness^^)
|
Dan L. Hollifield
Detective Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 90
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 10:24 pm: |
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Tom,
The wedding hasn't happened yet so you've still got time to think about attending, but thank you for the well wishes and we will send you copies of the photos as you asked...
And don't worry about the 3rd or 4th generation American thing. My ancestors were here to meet the boats, and see what good that did them. LOL!
"Remember, the trick isn't getting a good life, it's making your life good." Claude Hopper
Vila
"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible... However, it should only take me ten minutes or so."
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2456
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:06 am: |
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Hi Gary,
Great to see you back.
We were also told that psychiatrists often enter that field of medical specialization for the wrong reasons. To be specific, they sometimes seek to find some type of self realization as to their own behavioural tendencies. But I wasn't supposed to repeat that so you didn't hear it from me.
Sorry for repeating it myself! But it reminded me of a conversation I had with a psychiatrist friend of my brother's. I asked him if he didn't have to be a tad touched himself, to get to grips with the touchedness of others. He went a bit cranky on me and my brother's partner said drily, "I think she just made her point there".  .
I'm sure some of us get pretty defensive when people question our preoccupation with the subject of Jack and serial killers in general.
Jeremy Beadle recently appeared on Celebrity Mastermind (he won it) and was asked why he chose 'Capital Murder 1900-1940' as his specialist subject. Wasn't it a singularly gruesome interest?
Beadle laughed it off and pointed to the positive plethora of murder mystery thrillers and crime dramas on tv every week and filling the bookshelves of shops and libraries - most of it complete fiction, written only to tickle the fancy.
There must be an awful lot of touchedness about. 
Love,
Caz
X |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 952
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 8:53 am: |
|
I for one like a challenging puzzle. My other favorite website is Science Daily where I read about the latest research, a lot of it biochemical, which promises new cures for diseases. I like trying to challenge my brain to take in what the scientists are saying.
Maybe for whatever reasons people like us are "fixers". We like to find something that is disturbing and wrong, figure it out, and fix it. We want justice for the C5, even if it is belated, and the investigation challenges the brain. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2792
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:54 am: |
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Ap,
I have to admit I am so intrigued by your grandfather!
Was the letter from Ghandi you posted today on the Weather in 1888 thread
to your grandfather?
Ghandi was the great hero of Independance.No wonder you are proud of your heritage! |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5515
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 6:53 am: |
|
Just to throw in Harry, Peter and Spike here, they did a Limerick on one of their records :
There was a young man called Gandhi
Who went into the bar for the shandy
With his great loincloth
He wiped off the froth
And the barman said "Blimey, that's handy!"
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3057
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 7:09 am: |
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Nice one, Robert, the Goons always say it like nobody else can.
Natalie
my grandfather was certainly a very important person in the India Independence movement working with Gandhi as a representative in London at a later time.
After all he paid for his beliefs with his life in the end.
He was arrested by the British government as a radical and a terrorist and imprisoned for some time, upon his release he was taken to Dover under armed guard and escorted across the Channel, where he was subsequently murdered in circumstances which have still not been explained.
He was the first son of an India noble and was the first prince to be introduced to the King of England when he visited India.
Years later in London - I think in the early 1950's but I'm not sure - one of my father's younger brothers was stabbed and murdered by Sikh radicals, and another brother seriously injured, in an attack that was thought to have been aimed at my father, on account of him being the first son of this prince and the obvious inheritor of his vast wealth.
It was at this point that my father fled London for Hong Kong with his fledgling family, me being one of them.
When I mentioned to my mother recently that I might go to India and research all this, she said: 'They would kill you the minute they find out who you are.'
I'll stick to Jack then, far more civilized. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2793
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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A really turbulent period followed the Partitiion of 1947.
Crimes were committed by all sides.
"Fanatics have their dreams wherein they weave a paradise for a sect" once wrote Keats
and some terrible massacres certainly took place in the name of religion by Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims.Perhaps your grandfather"s tragedy was part of that backwash?
Ghandi paid the ultimate price too for defending the rights of innocent Muslims in the post Partition India.
How safe would it be for you today Ap if you were to investigate that side of your family?
I dont know that its more civilised but its probably safer to stick with the Ripper! |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3059
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
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Thanks for the interest, Natalie, it is a subject I am only beginning to research, with a great deal of care for my personal health!
This was my grandfather, it is claimed in the text that he died in a motor accident but the truth remains vague:
Lieutenant-Colonel Maharaj Kumar Shri Victor Nitendra Narayan. b. 21st May 1887, educ. Mayo Coll., Ajmer, Eton, and with ICC, Dehra Dun. Attended the Delhi Durbar 1911 as a member of the Bodyguard to HM King Emperor George V (rcvd. Silver Medal). MLC Cooch-Behar 1911-29; MSC in charge of H.H.’s Household 1913-19, MSC in charge of the Education, Press, Agriculture and Industry departments 1919-29; Cdt Cooch-Behar State Forces and Military Sec to H.H. 1914-19. Rcvd. Silver Jubilee Medal (1935) and Coronation Medal (1937). X at Calcutta, 1916, Maharaj Kumari Niropoma Devi, daughter of M.L. Gupta, Barr-at-Law, of Calcutta. He d. in a motor accident at Osterley, Surrey, 31st October 1937, having had issue two sons.'
I have found a photograph of him, and the resemblance to my good self is truly remarkable - at that age - but I don't suppose it to be in the remit of this site to start posting photos of ones ralatives, no matter how princely. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2800
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
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At first I thought your grandfather might be a relative of Narayan the writer ...
But Ap here we have a whole group of civil servants,starting with Warren,who apparently earned a rather unpleasant reputation in India but also there was Jenkinson,Monro and Macnaghten[an old Etonian too] who had very strong connections to India either through the army or police ,Monro was originally Inspector General of Police in Bombay ---and --- Queen Victoria herself who was Empress Of India!All the Kings were Emperors including George Vth who your Grandfather served at one stage.
Surely then since many of the major personnae in this case had such close connections with India we deserve a thread on the matter?It could take in the famous Tea Plantations too because both Macnaghten himself and Druit whose extended family was apparently linked to Macnaghten"s- in a distant way- had tended these.
Besides Cutbush himself worked for one of these famous Tea Empires ,several victims were found close by the hugeIndian Tea Warehouses of Kearley and Tongue----so surely you can let us see this fascinating photo of the Indian Prince who was your grandfather ,somewhere relevent on here?
I think too Ghandi himself was one of the Kings men at onetime in his career?
Natalie |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5518
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:16 pm: |
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AP, sorry you've lost me a little here. I thought you said he was murdered across the Channel.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3060
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:17 pm: |
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Well, seeing you put it like that, Natalie, I'll ask Robert if he could kindly post the image here. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 723
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:29 pm: |
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Hi Caz
Nice to be back in touch again.
I will never forget an experience I had with a psychiatrist who was going to serve as an expert witness in court. I approached him to introduce myself and begin to go over the testimony he was going to be presenting on behalf of my client. I put out my hand to shake his and he nervously looked away and pretended to be focusing on something off in the distance. I waited until he returned my gaze and put out my hand again thinking he may have just been nervous about appearing in court. He obviously and very reluctantly shook my hand and then without a word hurried off to the restroom. When he came out he was drying off his hands in an anxious fashion. Obviously he had run off to scrub his hands clean.
He wasn't nervous at all when I presented him in court and gave very coherent testimony albeit overly prone to jargon and pat and generalized conclusions.
This particular experience struck me when I read your post and I was not surprised that the fellow you spoke with did not argue with the point you were making.
As for our interest in JTR and the tendency of some people to see us as 'a bit off' for focusing on what they would consider the macabre. I think the vast majority of JTR buffs are interested in the mystery and intrigue of arguably the most fascinating and infamous unsolved crime spree in history. It is true to say JTR has never been truly reproduced in his methodology and that makes him of particular fascination. Speaking for myself, the added factor of trying to catch a glimpse behind the abnormal psychopathology of the perpetrator provides endless opportunities for discussion, argument and analysis. I am obviously not alone in this regard.
AP- Your grandfather sounds like a fascinating humanitarian and this type of individual has always been seen as a threat to the status of the power structures that so many people cling to at all costs.
All The Best
Gary |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5520
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
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Here we are. AP's ancestor is second left, hiding a bottle of SSB behind his back.
 |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2803
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:01 pm: |
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A very impressive and elegant group Ap!Thanks so much Robert for posting it.
Looking at this photo the young man 2nd from the right of my screen looks very like what we could see of you in the photo you posted-same nose,forehead cheekbones-you are right a definite, strong resemblance.Great Stuff!
Thanks again,a real treasure! |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3062
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 5:20 pm: |
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Thanks Robert
the confusion is great.
All I know is that he ended up dead in Paris, and then his body was taken back to Bengal for a state funeral.
My family who might know of it are dead or demented.
Going on what Gary said, I think the English authorities and crown were very disappointed in a young man who they had given every privilege and rank to, who then turned on them as a leader of the Indian Nationalist movement, just at a time when they didn't need it.
The young man controlled Bengal, and his voice was pivotal to the Gandhi movement, and the crown.
Somehow, somewhere, his life ended very suddenly, and at a time when his nation sorely required him.
Many feel that he could have prevented the mass slaughter between muslims and hindus that came later.
History!
The male line died out with him, and Bengal has been without a ruler since 1951...
the year of my birth.
Well, Bengal is a big place, I could stretch my feet there. |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 6:19 pm: |
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A.P.
Your grandfather looks like a refined dude for sure. Thanks to Robert for placating it. Thats got to be a 100 year old photo.
Shame he didn't have this guy as a bodyguard...my grandfather.....Glassjaw Green... He was a boxer. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5522
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 6:35 pm: |
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My grandad was on the staff at Lord's at one time, his job was to give practice to the England players.
I think I am Anglo Saxon and Celtic, and my blood is 25% nicotine.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 3064
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 6:56 pm: |
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How, Glassjaw looks like a man I could share a glass of fine Tullamore Dew with, and then beat the ice out of it.
Robert, if you Anglo Saxon and Celtic surely you play the harp and don't have time for fags?
My blood?
Pure Spanish brandy.
Incidentally Robert, my grandfather played cricket at Lord's. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5523
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2006 - 7:13 pm: |
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Yes, AP. See your inbox.
Robert |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 5:52 pm: |
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Sounds like some of the men on this thread are having their "little buddy" right now!
A real bitchfest.
Anyway; I would compare Jack the Ripper to a mild mannered Ed Gein type. Ed Gein looked like a loner farm boy type, but he read anatomy books, pornography and Nazi death camp experiments.
He also had an unhealthy curiosity about the female body parts etc.
Yes, concerning Catharine Eddowes' "rags" found on her person, it would be the only method available at that time to take care of the menstrual flow.
I am 51 and still have not had menopause, so I am sure that some of the victims were also still of menstruating age.
Menses are greatly influenced by the phases of the moon, and many women have their menses on the full or new moon.
No mention is made in any of the reports as to the womens' condition of being menopausal etc, perhaps because the uterus was missing in some cases.
I say Ed Gein because he wanted to make a suit of womens' skin, and I think Jack the Ripper was infatuated with a similar idea.
Joan |
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