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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2646
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 1:12 pm: |       |
Catherine Eddowes, Jack the Ripper Victim
Neal Shelden. Privately published, 2003.
Now available! The Casebook's review will follow shortly, along with all necessary ordering information. Those who wish to order from Amazon.co.UK may do so at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953769135/casebojacktherip
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
Christopher T George
Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 3:18 pm: | |
Hi Stephen:
Many thanks for making us aware of this new title by Neal Shelden. It is nice to see that Neal is putting out books devoted to single victims, which is a good way to both honor their memory and to publish all the available information on them.
Best regards
Chris |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2647
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
Posted on behalf of Neal Shelden...
I've put 3 photo's of the great granddaughter (called Catherine Sarah Hall) of Catherine Eddowes in the booklet, but unfortunately the printer has put the wrong caption under one of them. He has repeated a caption for one
photograph that said: "Catherine Sarah Hall, Great Granddaughter of Catherine Eddowes (hair
colour:auburn)late 1920's"
Instead of one that should've said: "Catherine Sarah Hall and her daughter. Photograph taken during World War II"
I only noticed the mistake after I'd already sent out some copies so changed the 2 to a 3 on further copies. I thought that the casebook readers might like to know, but I am unable to resize the picture myself.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 3:37 pm: | |
Thanks for that, that's a splendid photograph. I look forward to hearing how those outside the UK can purchase Neal's new booklet.
Best,
Dave |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 5:28 pm: | |
Wow...it's rather striking how much she looks like Kate - even though the pictures of Kate aren't pretty, the resemblance is still there.
B |
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 19
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 4:08 pm: | |
Neal's booklet is also available from Clifford Elmer Books (although you can support Casebook by purchasing it thru Casebook bookstore). But if you collect antiquarian or rare books dealing mostly with crime, you might find a few things of interest here.
http://www.cliffordelmerbooks.com
Best,
Dave
|
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2657
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, March 15, 2003 - 8:57 pm: | |
Review of Catherine Eddowes: Jack the Ripper Victim:
Neal Shelden has fast become Ripperology's resident guru when it comes to the victims of Jack the Ripper. This is his third such publication, after Jack the Ripper and His Victims (1999) and Annie Chapman: Jack the Ripper Victim. A Short Biography (2001). Whereas most Ripper books tend to focus on the circumstances of their deaths, Neal focuses instead on these women's lives, families and descendants. As such, his books are a goldmine of information for those who wish to delve into the more human aspects of the Whitechapel tragedies.
This latest offering concerns itself almost exclusively with Catherine Eddowes, the Ripper's fourth canonical victim. A comprehensive timeline of events in Catherine's life - from her birth in Wolverhampton in 1842, to her tragic death in Mitre Square in 1888 - forms the majority of the booklet. From there the timeline continues through the life of her daughter, Annie Phillips (nee Conway), from 1889 through 1942. Photographs are included of Catherine's great granddaughter, Catherine Sarah Hall. Although the only likenesses we have of Catherine Eddowes show a face mutilated nearly beyond recognition, more than a few people have commented on the eerie resemblance between Catherine Hall and her more well-known ancestor.
Other chapters are included as well. The first, entitled "The People Who Knew Mary Jane Kelly," offers information on "Morganstone", Mrs. Carthy, George Hutchinson and John McCarthy. Shelden offers up some interesting genealogical research on each and corrects several errors recently published by other authors. Another chapter, "Ripper Victim Research" provides updates on new information recently discovered about Emma Smith, Mary Ann Nichols, Annie Chapman and Elizabeth Stride. The book ends with a chapter on the three victims of Ripper suspect Severin Klosowski: Mary Spink, Bessie Taylor and Maud Marsh.
Like Neal's previous work, this booklet is not intended for the general Ripper audience. But those with a decided interest in the lives and descendants of the Ripper's victims will greedily devour every page for the details found within.
Available from Amazon.co.UK (yes, they ship to US addresses):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953769135/casebojacktherip
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper |
SirRobertAnderson
Police Constable
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 12:57 am: | |
"Review of Catherine Eddowes: Jack the Ripper Victim:
This is his third such publication,
after Jack the Ripper and His Victims (1999) and Annie Chapman: Jack
the Ripper Victim. A Short Biography (2001)."
Hey Stephen!
How much overlap is there between "Jack the Ripper and His Victims" and the other two books?
Regards,
Sir Robert |
Tom_Wescott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 1:18 am: | |
Hello all,
As a proud owner of both of Neal's earlier publications, you can rest assured I will be ordering this one soon. Catherine Eddowes, I suppose you could say, is my 'favorite' of the victim's. I'm glad to see Neal turning his attention towards her. I'm happy to see that he opted for the 'Catherine' rendition instead of 'Catharine'. I used to email back and forth with a descendent of hers, who didn't know many details, but was able to supply me with a family tree, and it was clear that 'Catherine' was a long-standing family name, and that 'Catharine' had most likely been a typo.
Congrats, Neal! What's next?
Yours truly,
Tom
P.S. Despite the link above, I will be purchasing this through the Casebook bookstore. All others should do the same. |
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
Sorry, Stephen--the link's not intended to rival the Bookstore. I posted it because there's other stuff there I thought a collecter like yourself might be interested in.
Regards,
Dave
|
Neal Shelden
Police Constable
Username: Neal
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2003 - 11:58 am: | |
Hi Brian,
Yes, I believe the resemblance to Kate is there in Catherine Sarah Hall. The little girl is the lady I met with last week.
The younger photograph of Catherine Sarah Hall for the late 1920's in the booklet, also has a remarkable coincidence on the reverse. The photogrpher's address was a short walk from Mitre Square at 39 Duke Street, EC3. She couldn't have known that the nearby Mitre Square was where her great grandmother had been murdered 40 years before?
Hi Sir Robert,
The Catherine Eddowes part of the booklet corrects the information in the first book Jack the Ripper and his Victims and adds a lot more information about the family that continues into a section on Annie Phillips. Annie Phillips birth entry and Thomas Conway's army discharge details are included.
Hi Tom,
Unfortunately, for all the Kate Eddowes fans I wasn't able to find a photograph of Kate Eddowes and am now certain there isn't one. The 4 remaining lines of descent from Annie Phillips have all confirmed that they don't have one, and more surprisingly don't have one of Annie Phillips either. My conclusion is that Annie Phillips herself destroyed all of the family photographs before she died in 1943.
In the future I'd like to track down Edward John Nichols family (son of Polly), but of course just like everyone else I'd like to find a small scrap of evidence about Mary Jane Kelly. If I do another booklet it would be about that, but it will be the last because there won't be one from me on Stride, Tabrum etc.
All the best.
Neal |
Christopher DiGrazia
Police Constable
Username: Cmd
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 12:05 pm: | |
An excellent booklet, Neal (I just received my copy yesterday). As Spry points out, this is definitely not for the casual Ripperologist, but belongs on the shelf of every serious student of the case. My review will be in the new issue of Ripper Notes, which will be mailed out the first week of April. |
Neal Shelden
Police Constable
Username: Neal
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 2:43 pm: | |
Thanks Christopher-Michael,
I look forward to the review in Ripper Notes.
I hope that people are not too disappointed that there wasn't a photograph of Catherine Eddowes? After all, we researchers and authors can only find what's out there. 
I wanted to come up with a good amount of new research this time, unlike with the Annie booklet.
All the best
Neal |
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 21, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
Neal,
I don't think anyone will be disappointed--you've put together quite an impressive timeline for Catherine Eddowes and her family. I can't imagine how you've found out some of the details you've included ("At Maidstone, she purchased a pair of boots from Arthur Pash of the High Street")  . I also especially appreciate the Mary Kelly chapter.
A question: on page 36, you write about Annie Phillips leaving Catherine Hall a pair of earrings. Are these the same pair we see in the photograph included on the same page? When I look at that photograph, am I looking at earrings which Catherine Eddowes might once have worn?
You posted that the Annie Phillips descendants have no photos of Catherine Eddowes--does that go for the children of the Brothers Conway, if there are any?
I guess I might get laughed at here, but what about pursuing the John Kelly avenue? I know that's a long shot with such a common name, but couldn't it be possible John and Kate might have splurged on a portrait between 1881 & 1888?
Looking forward to giving your booklet a more thorough reading this weekend. I think that, when you've finished your last booklet, you ought to put them all together in one volume.
Cheers,
Dave
|
Neal Shelden
Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 3:19 pm: | |
Hi David,
Thanks for your compliments about the booklet.
I haven't actually seen the earrings yet. When I went to the lady's house, I didn't think to ask to see them. Next time I will.
Annie's brother Thomas Conway died in 1903 and did not have a wife or any children. He stayed living with his father right up until his death.
I have no idea as to what happened to Alfred George Conway after 1888? The most likely scenario was that he died between 1888 to 1901. I cannot find anyone whether Alfred or George Conway that was the right age or birthplace on the 1901 census.
Perhaps he went abroad? But whatever the truth, I believe that Thomas Conway was hardly likely to let his son's have a photograph of their mother when he didn't even want them visit to her.
If you want to pursue the chance that Kelly and Eddowes had a portrait done together, I'll wish you the best of luck.
All the best.
Neal
|
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 3:42 pm: | |
"If you want to pursue the chance that Kelly and Eddowes had a portrait done together, I'll wish you the best of luck."
Okay, Neal--fair enough(laugh).
Thanks,
Dave |
Neal Shelden
Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 37
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 7:38 am: | |
A photograph of another great granddaughter of Catherine Eddowes, and her daughter and granddaughter. These pictures will apppear in future prints of the booklet.
 |
Christopher T George
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 102
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 1:58 pm: | |
Hi, Neal:
Congratulations on your continued excellent work. I am looking forward to getting a signed copy of your book in Liverpool, hopefully. In regard to your not being able to come up with a photograph of Catherine Eddowes, I have to say that the photograph of Catherine Sarah Hall looks so like the drawing of Catherine Eddowes on the cover of your book, as well as to the post mortem photographs, that I don't believe we are missing anything. I am comforted to know that the drawing appears to be a good likeness.
I want to thank you for your efforts to contact the victims' families that is helping I think to make the victims so much more alive to us. Bravo, Neal.
All the best
Chris |
Neal Shelden
Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 38
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 3:13 pm: | |
Chris,
Thanks for your kind words about the work and the search for an Eddowes photograph. Like everyone else I was disappointed that there wasn't one of Kate, but I hope the family photographs do go someway to making up for what I couldn't find.
I was pleased that the daughter of Ellen Mary Ann Wells (the second picture above of the lady in the garden) has allowed me to publish a picture of how she looks today. I'm hoping that this might be the first step to her allowing me to reveal her name, and then maybe she'll be willing to come forward for people to meet with her? Let's hope.
I'm amazed by yet another coincidence that this lady once worked in "The Minories," not far from Mitre Square.
Thanks once again Chris,
All the best.
Neal
|
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 1:30 pm: | |
Neal
Just returned home after two weeks out of state and found your book on Kate Eddowes waiting for me. I enjoyed it very much. I have always felt that Kate Eddowes was the most engaging of the victims.
I'm told Annie Chapman will be four to six weeks, minimum.
Best Regards
Gary |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 7:27 am: | |
Hi Gary,
Thanks very much for your compliments about the Eddowes booklet, I believe a lot feel the same way about Kate as we do.
I'm surprised that it will take so long for the Annie Chapman one to arrive. I know that there are a couple of shop soiled Annie booklets left at Crime in Store book shop in London, but Loretta Lay is selling some at www.laybooks.com too. There was only 200 printed and unfortunately I don't have any left myself.
Also, there was only 150 printed of my first publication Jack the Ripper and His Victims, but I still have 1 reprint left if anybody is interested?
But once again Gary, thanks.
Neal |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 8:13 am: | |
Neal
I'm sure you already know this, but please be sure to convey our feelings of interest and concern about the victims and their lives when meeting with the families. We are not morbid curiousity seekers. I think we all care about the lives of these poor woman. I know that having studied the case since I read my first ripper book in 1976, I have come to feel as if I know these woman and you may feel free to quote me when speaking with the families.
Best Regards
Gary |
Jon P. Van Skiver
Police Constable
Username: Jonvs
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 11:10 am: | |
Neal,
I ordered both books from Amazon.co.uk to support the Casebook and they said delevery was 6-8 weeks, that was 4 weeks ago. I just checked my order status and the delevery is sometime in the middle of May. From your previous post it looks like I won't be getting the Annie booklet and I'm getting real concerned that I'll miss out on Catherine's booklet as well. Any suggestions?
Regards,
Jon |
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 3:26 pm: | |
Hi Gary,
Yes, I made sure that the families were made aware that most people interested in the Ripper crimes felt for the victims. And I think that despite some worries that they had about their famous ancestors being prostitutes, they were all very supportive and sympathetic towards Annie and Kate and what happened to them.
I can also say that I tried to put over a side of the victims that I thought that they could find amusing rather than just sad. The point about Kate Eddowes selling a gallows ballad at the execution of her cousin caused a good few minutes of laughter with the Eddowes descendant and her husband.
I can honestly say that the reason the descendants don't come forward is not to do with their unwillingness to meet people involved in JTR research. It's solely to do with the fact that they don't want the life they are living disturbed by repoters knocking on their doors. In time of course, that might change?
Hi Jon,
I don't have any doubt that you will be able to get hold of the new Catherine Eddowes booklet, I have some myself if you have problems?
As for the Annie Chapman one, I know that Crime in Store in London have a couple, if not Loretta Lay, and Clifford Elmer Books have them available.
I hope this is of some help?
All the best
Neal
|
Neal Shelden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Neal
Post Number: 62
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 6:46 pm: | |
I have just received an email from a lady who is related to Elizabeth Fisher, Catherine Eddowes sister.
Elizabeth Fisher was this lady's 3 times great aunt. She informed me that Elizabeth died aged 82 on 18th December 1920 at Earl Street, Plumstead, SE London. She had 4 daughters and 5 sons.
Unfortunately, there is no photograph of Elizabeth in the family, or family bible or information passed down. An Eddowes family habit I believe?
Neal |
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