| Author |
Message |
    
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1703
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 11:26 am: | 
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This is very exciting stuff... I feel an urgent need to drink a bottle of Spanish brandy!
Both Debra and Robert are to be congratulated on these finds.
But before I hit the brandy bottle I thought I would let you know that photographs do exist of this Fiji Cutbush.
Robert, as I can't handle the technology I will try and send the photo by e-mail. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3815
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 1:07 pm: |
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Hi all
Debra, thanks for that link. Re Frances Augusta, that would be very interesting if it turned out that she'd emigrated. On the downside though, she wouldn't have just been a bit old for children - she'd have been a bit old for TTC!
Donovan, Chris Scott started a visual on this thread on April 23rd.
AP, send the photo and if I can't get it on the Boards hopefully my nephew can.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3817
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 1:38 pm: |
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This is the photo AP has sent me.
Cutbush is in there somewhere.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1705
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 6:09 pm: |
|
Thanks for that, Robert.
I keep posting replies all night but nothing comes up?
I'll bung a name on the face, eventually... not an easy task.
The Swanns are big time in Suva and Fiji now, Speakers of the House and stuff like that, heavily involved in the revolution there a few years ago, and running the place.
But that was a remarriage.
So of no help to us.
I sort of knew TTC would get to Fiji.
Now I have to mind set him on his death.
I think it has to be Oz. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3822
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 6:25 pm: |
|
I'm sure he'll eventually be run to earth, AP. But I also feel there are more marriages to come.
After all, by my reckoning that's three marriages in 10 years, and I think he was alive in Port Melbourne as late as 1885, wasn't he?
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3824
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:22 am: |
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I've checked the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and the memorial reference is Panel 51 and 53.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3825
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 5:51 am: |
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Debra, I'm sure you've already been down this road, but I found a Frances A Watson born 1852, father William P and mother Imogine.
Something really weird, three different Swann brothers married someone called Clara in the years 1899-1902, all in Lithgow. Maybe this Clara was a serial poisoner?!
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3826
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 6:22 am: |
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Sorry, scratch that last item. I was looking at births. No serial poisonings...unless mother Clara was putting something in the rusks.
Robert |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 9:01 am: |
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Hi Robert
I found this page of links for various Australian record indexes online, BMD, divorces,passenger records, pioneers etc.It covers a few different areas of Australia.
Not had a chance to check much of it out yet, just had a really quick look through, but I do keep turning up a Frances A. Cutbush aged 5 ( sometime in 1870's) as a passenger, but she seems to be with her family, so no joy there, and an Emily and Matilda Cutbush keep popping up too sisters in their 20's, travelling alone I think, but nothing I can connect to.
Here is the link
http://www.coraweb.com.au/bdmau.htm
Hours of fun!!!!
Debra
|
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1706
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 1:21 pm: |
|
Yes, Robert, TTC was residing in Pickles Street, Port Melbourne in 1885.
I've been trying - without a lot of luck - to relate that to the voyage of the good ship 'You Yangs' in 1875 when TTC was a passenger from Melbourne to Sydney.
Equally hard to figure out is the mysterious little grouping of Cutbush's on the 'Sorato' in 1885 from London to Adelaide.
A male Cutbush of forty years, a young Cutbush girl of eighteen and then a small male child Cutbush of ten?
Just doesn't sound right or even proper, and because of that I sort of smelt the long and wrong arm of the Cutbush clan.
Debra, thank you, I'll check the site out now. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1708
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 1:57 pm: |
|
I know the site now, Debra, was there lots recently but the amount to go through is sometimes daunting.
The two Cutbush sisters you mention I had on file:
'David Noakes m Charlotte Cutbush in Brede, Sussex, UK and came to NZ in
1842. Charlotte's two sisters came from Sussex, UK and settled in the
Hunter Valley, Australia. They were Mary Ann who m James Jewhurst.
Some descendants are said to have changed the name to Dewhurst; and
Eleanor who m Thomas Baker.'
This comes from a poster elsewhere called 'Tuiris' who seems to pop up all over the place when a Cutbush is mentioned. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3831
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 2:43 pm: |
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Debra, thanks for that. I've been on some of these, but hopefully there'll still be lots to do. I just wish the Australians had kept their censuses!
AP, Tuiris is a nice lady called Iris. That reminds me that I'm supposed to be looking for one of her ancestors. I drew a blank the first time but I said I'd try again.
AP, suppose that TTC's bigamy was discovered. Then his marriage to Frances Augusta would be null and void. Now, do you think that Frances would say "formerly Cutbush" the way she did? Perhaps she would, as her son was called Cutbush?
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3833
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:02 pm: |
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AP, the reason I ask is that I found two or three Aussie servicemen with next of kin Thomas Cutbush, but these were, I think, post-1915.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:34 pm: |
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Yes, Robert, I too have been playing around with the relatives associated with the Great War, but have got nowhere, but having said that I did find the Fiji/Suva connection to TTC months ago, and basically just didn’t react to the information I had found, luckily you and Debra did.
I would say that I probably have at least two hundred references filed away of similar import, but again I have failed to react to the information under my fingers. This is probably a combination of old age and too much brandy, but hey, I’m retired anyway.
By the way I’ve found you a nice clock as a going away present:
‘Also in the first auction will be a brass mantel clock made by John Cutbush of Maidstone, England, and owned by the Gardiner family for hundreds of years.’
I know it’s me who is going away, but I’m afraid if you want the clock, you’ll have to pay for it:
‘The brass skeleton clock, signed by John Cutbush, has more local resonance and will be much easier on the wallet with an estimate of $5,000 to $7,000. The clock was fashioned in Maidstone, England, where some of East Hampton's oldest families could have sailed from. A tall case or "grandfather's" clock with a Gardiner family provenance signed "R. Cutbush, Maidstone" is in the East Hampton Library collection.’
If you can’t afford that, I’ve found you an absolute bargain for a fiver:
‘NEW - Highgate Nurseries invoice 1908
made out by William Cutbush and Son, Nurserymen and Florists, size 10" x 8", hole... view detail J180
£5’
Yes, Robert, Frances Augusta was making a point for sure, but as I've pointed out before one has to be careful about the legal requirements of bigamy in the LVP. It was perfectly acceptable under 'gentlemen's rules' to take on other and new marriages whilst keeping the old.
My knowledge of the law is sketchy here, but I do believe Frances Augusta would have been legally obliged to allow her son to keep the name 'Cutbush', unless she applied to a court with good reason to change it, and a remarriage on her part would not have been good cause.
Her son would have had to express a legal desire to change his name to that of his mother.
This very rarely happens.
Of course Frances Augusta may have had a very good financial reason for keeping the handle 'formerly Cutbush', and her son as 'Thomas Cutbush', and this might well explain the sudden financial deflowering of the Cutbush/Flood clan in London, whilst over in Fiji/Suva the Swanns suddenly became the powers that be in almost every walk of life.
They even had their own postcards for the tourists featuring their business and political empires back then in the LVP.
Perhaps TTC finally met his match?
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1410
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:39 pm: |
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Where are you "going away" to AP?
Natalie |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3837
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 3:51 pm: |
|
AP, I think I'll have the Highgate invoice. It may not tell me the time, but it'll keep me out of Newgate.
I'd like to know what Thomas Watson Cutbush was in civilian life. He obviously wasn't a professional soldier, since he was 38 and a Private.
Anyway, enjoy your holiday, AP.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3905
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 6:38 pm: |
|
I have now searched the Victorian BMD for TTC's death, which needless to say I couldn't find. However, I did find two more mini-TTCs, plus Thomas Watson's birthplace.
CUTBUSH
Frances Mary Gertrude B Thos Taylor WATSON - Frances Augusta Eveline 1873 15718
CUTBUSH
Thomas Watson B Thomas Taylor WATSON - Frances Augusta Evelyn 1878 18998
CUTBUSH
Ruby Caroline An B Thomas Taylor WATSON - Fran Augusta Evelyn 1882 12054
The earliest one was birthplace C'Wood, the other two Sand.
TTC and wife must have been flitting from Victoria to New South Wales and back again, from the birth found by Debra in NSW.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3907
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2005 - 7:04 pm: |
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Ruby seems to have married in Glebe, NSW 1902 to a man called George Wall.
Robert |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 1:45 pm: |
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Hi Robert
Its a pity you didn't find TTC's death, but these births are great finds!
So that's 4 children so far with Frances Augusta, did you ever find any children b to Agnes Inglis (Stoddart)Cutbush?
I have just been looking back over the archives about Agnes and her two sisters Christina and Helen, I don't know if you noticed at the time but you have probably seen it since that Helen then aged 17 married 2 years after Agnes, in the same Presbyterian church, also to a clerk and Agnes was a witness. No bearing on anything really I am just interested in this family as I have a stock of Scottish Inglis in my family tree and undoubtedly this family was of Scottish origin, and Agnes was probably named after one of her grandmothers an 'Agnes Inglis'.
TTC was a very quick worker wasn't he?, must have been a bit of a charmer.
Nothing really useful to add, just been having a catch up on the threads. I have been on the artwork one for ages I couldn't come away!, Jane is absolutely fantastic isn't she? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3930
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 4:26 am: |
|
Thanks Debra. I am going to have to do an AP and read through all the posts to refresh my memory!
I do know that I haven't found a child born to Agnes, though it's possible one will turn up in the Wellington Independent.
So TTC may have married into your family? Well, you're not alone. 
Yes, Jane's work is outstanding. Now if only she could give us a picture of Thomas....
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1710
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 8:13 pm: |
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Robert & Debra
just a quick tip - that I am unable to use myself until I get back - in searching for TTC.
In Australia every State has two indexes - available on the net - which have search engines, one is called 'Digger - Pioneers Index 1829-1889' (the state has to be entered so: 'Digger - Queensland Pioneer Index etc' and this applies to every State). The other index is 'Digger - Federation Index 1890 -1914', again with the State.
A search using these indexes turns up over 35 Cutbush names just for Townsville.
As soon as I'm back I'll look myself but I thought you two might like to try.
Another tip is that every town and city has a municipal web-site with recorded deaths etc. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3999
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 6:19 am: |
|
AP, we'll give it a bash but we're a bit unclear what you mean here. Digger keeps returning us to Victoria.
One or two interesting developments re Uncle Charles's pension records (still not accessed - that's what's interesting) and the Seaside Home which I'll tell you about when you get back.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1711
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:58 am: |
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sorry Robert
I accessed the sites from within Aus and had no problem, but it might be worth trying without the word 'digger', so like 'New South Wales Pioneer Index etc'... just wish I had more time here but have been involved in the worst flooding here in years and have been isolated in the armpit of world without access to net or brandy! Trying to make up for it now.
I'll check access to the sites again and get back to you.
Can't wait to hear about developments with uncle Charles and the Seaside Home.
Told you this was a right kettle of old cod!
Well, we sort of know that uncle Charle's pension records have been accessed don't we!
Hopefully, said off-duty person hasn't nicked them to boot!
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4008
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 6:39 am: |
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Hi AP
We've got Western Australia, but nothing else.
Can't you get the Flying Doctor to bring some SSB in?
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1551
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 9:42 am: |
|
Great to see that AP Wolf sign reappear in red letters.Dont be too long out there AP.We miss you!
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1713
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:50 pm: |
|
Thanks Natalie, flattery will get you everywhere.
Robert, sorry, but I've been sending you on a wild goose again. The sites are government controlled, and I obviously accessed them from another government site which allowed access.
To make up for that I have spent the entire afternoon out of the bar and at said government computer, and have accessed at least twelve different indexes... but still no TTC I'm afraid.
I'll keep trying though.
I believe the flying doctors put SSB in their aircraft. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4016
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
|
No worries, AP.
If they put SSB in the planes, then I hope the planes aren't like your brandy glasses and bottles - empty when they hit the ground.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1714
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 7:03 pm: |
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No worries, Robert.
It is just such a shame that one of our down under members can't do a bit of simple research in the local library, as most city libraries stock the complete pioneer and federation indexes, and TTC will turn up there somewhere in births, marriages - at which he seemed to excell - and in deaths, which he didn't seem particularly good at!
For the record I have trawled the following indexes without useful result:
Queensland - Pioneer & Federation Index
Queensland - electoral rolls
NSW Pioneer index 1788 - 1888
NSW Pioneer index 1889 - 1918
Immigration to Victoria 1852 - 1879
Victoria Edwardian index - 1902 - 1913
South Australian Marriages 1842 - 1916
South Australian Births 1842 - 1906
West Australina Pioneers index 1841 - 1905.
I do hope someone is able to carry on.
I'm on holiday and there is too much Bundaberg rum about to do any research.
I did go for a dive on one of the ships that TTC used for his flitting, wrecked on Townsville reef, but he wasn't there either.
Back in a week. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1715
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 05, 2005 - 7:30 pm: |
|
Just an idle thought brought on by the interminable heat of Port Douglas.
The Cutbush/Flood males appeared to make quick work of their young brides - especially in the case of the Mears sisters, but elsewhere also - and the fact that the family were engaged in the painting and decorating business suddenly struck a distant chord with me.
That being the famous case of the poisoning of Napoleon in 1821, where much later forensic examinations showed that the poor chap had been killed off by a solution of arsenic obtained from the paste used to hang wallpaper in those far-off days.
My knowledge is a little shaky here, but I don't believe it was forensically possible to test for arsenic poisoning until well into the LVP.
One does wonder whether the Cutbush/Flood males might have been acutely aware of the deadly properties of their wall paper paste, and used it to further their family fortune? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4036
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 3:18 am: |
|
Well it's a thought, AP. I suppose we'd need the death certificates. But in the case of, say, Luke Flood's first wife that wouldn't be possible, would it, as it was pre-1937?
http://www.sydneyarchives.info/Sands_Directory/sands1863.html#newtown is a site that I've been searching, going forward a year at a time, but no sign of TTC.
An item from the Times I discovered quite late in the day shows another of Uncle Charles's jobs - statistics.
JAN 1st 1889
This shows at least that there might be more about the family in the Times yet to be found, as this item just doesn't come up under search term "Cutbush."
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1716
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 9:50 pm: |
|
Nice find, Robert.
I too have noticed that both The Times and the Old Bailey do not react well to a 'Cutbush' search, and have often stumbled across references by chance, so yes, I do think there is a lot more out there than we have found.
Thanks for the new site, I'll check that out as well. |
Debra Arif
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 06, 2005 - 5:46 am: |
|
Hi Robert
I have found that with The Times search engine too, I found the Mears property article by searching for Flood, the article mentioned Luke Flood Cutbush, but didn't come up on a Cutbush search....very frustrating knowing there may be more that we can only find by accident!
Debra |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4053
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 5:33 pm: |
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Hi Debra
I seem to recall that altering a vowel will bring up one or two that didn't show up before - e.g. Catbush or Cutbosh, that sort of thing.
But the Times search engine is a dream compared with the Ancestry newspaper one - after using that I seriously contemplate buying some SSB.
Robert |
NC
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 08, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
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AP,
I'm in Melbourne and would be happy to do some digging in the State Library here or whatever. I'll have more time available post mid-March.
Regards
Neale |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4057
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 09, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
|
Hi Neale
AP's still away at present, but on AP's behalf I can say that would be extremely useful, and thanks very much.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |
|
Yes, Neale, as Robert already said, it would be very useful if you could do that very thing.
I've just this minute walked in the door from your fair land down under after a 23 hour flight and I can't say that I'm keen to do it all again.
So, please do that research if you can. I've detailed the files that I've been through, but many more are available... my advice, pay no attention to the officials concerned and just grab every disk they have hidden in the reference cupboard.
The search engines within the disks are easy to use and can be dealt with very quickly. If Melbourne can't come up with certain index files and disks it is their duty to do so and they will order them.
That's what all you poor Aussies pay all that tax for.
It would be so useful and kind if we could find someone down under like yourself who could look at this sort of thing for us.
We do need to nail Thomas Taylor Cutbush. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4059
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 3:51 pm: |
|
Welcome back, AP.
Neale, there's one thing AP hasn't mentioned....take a crucifix with you.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1578
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:09 pm: |
|
Yes indeed, welcome back AP!I am off to Rome for a few days on Saturday.When I get back I shall look forward to the latest findings on the Cutbush clan!
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1719
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
|
Thanks Robert
You are right, I have fired so many silver bullets at TTC that I might as well have shot myself in the foot a long time ago and ended it quickly.
Regarding yours and Debra's comments about search engines and 'Cutbush'; on the Old Bailey and The Times sites I find it better to use 'Cutbush' as a 'place' or 'word' search rather than a 'name' search.
Nice to be back.
If you ain't taking your anorak to conference in Brighton, Robert, then my own is staying firmly in my cupboard. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4060
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 4:35 pm: |
|
AP and Natalie
That's a shame, AP, as it will leave the Convalescent Home in sole possession of the Kosminskiists, all refusing to identify each other.
Natalie, enjoy your holiday and don't forget to wear your anorak in the Sistine Chapel.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1580
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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Thanks Robert-I no longer possess an anorak and this time I wont be visiting the Sistine Chapel-wonderful as it is.My friends hope to though.But its closed half the time.Instead I want to visit the museums on the Capital Hill where the Greek portrait busts are!
Natalie |
Neale Carter
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ncarter
Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 10, 2005 - 8:23 pm: |
|
The "Cutbush Coinnesseurs" seem to be a well travelled bunch - Rome, Port Douglas.....
As you point out AP, my taxes pay these people's wages so I shall extract all I can.
Neale
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1720
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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Robert, no worries, I'm more than happy to see the Kosminski crowd bunkered down in the Seaside Home, as long as it is the original one which is now of course a gay wine bar.
I hope they'll be very happy in there.
Meanwhile it does appear that the uncle Charles and Seaside Home connection cools whilst other connections get much hotter indeed.
|
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1721
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
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Thanks Neale
I am absolutely convinced that you will find Thomas Taylor Cutbush somewhere in the indexes.
The record of his death would be a find indeed, but going on his conduct down under you are much more likely to find young brides and children of his, so the birth records might give him up before the death records.
I did find two Cutbush children with no named father, at the right time in Northern Queensland, but that doesn't help really.
Something instinctive seems to tell me that TTC would have been in the Townsville and Charters Towers regions at the time of the gold rush there, but I couldn't find him... all the fraudsters, charlatans and bigamists of the LVP ended up in Charters Towers, it had the busiest stock exchange in the world then, now a bit of a ghost town.
But whatever you can find will help. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 11:22 am: |
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Robert
Going back to your post of the 6th Feb detailing other areas of Executive Superintendent Charles Cutbush’s work at Scotland Yard.
Interesting that such a study should have been put together in 1888 by uncle Charles… one can imagine him hard at work on his kitchen table throughout that year diligently putting together such a complicated report, including of course precise details of the exact length of every police beat in the Whitechapel area; and young Thomas coming around for a cup of Mitre tea - best brand on the market in the LVP, made of course by Kearly & Tonge - and saying:
‘What’s that you are up to there, uncle Charles, my dear chap?’
‘Not much my dear boy,’ replies uncle Charles. ‘Just putting down the precise details of every police beat in the Whitechapel area.’
‘Splendid!’ screams young Thomas. ‘I think I will jolly well help you with the irksome task.’
‘Thank you my dear boy!’ replies uncle Charles, making space for Thomas to sit by him.
Your post also raises the highly contentious subject of just how mad was mad old uncle Charles in 1888?
For if it was indeed the hand of Executive Superintendent Cutbush behind this neat little report you found in The Times, then so mad the old boy was not… it would seem.
Difficult.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4063
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 11, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
|
AP, maybe he was reasonably OK in 88? After all, he wasn't pensioned till 1891, and this may even have simply reflected 25 years' service clocked up - I don't know the date of his joining. Certainly he was active in the fight for police pensions at the start of the 90s.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1724
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 11:55 am: |
|
Going back to Debra's and Robert's posts of the 7th Jan concerning the Fiji connection, it appears entirely possible that TTC may well have known Frances Augusta Evelyn Swann's - mother of Thomas Cutbush, sired by TTC - later husband, Swann, back in New Zealand, as the Swann family from which her later husband came were resident in Kaiapoi & Christchurch from 1864 until about 1872.
TTC was there from 1867 until about 1875.
There could be more to this connection than we previously thought. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4066
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
|
That's interesting, AP. And you say the Swanns were fairly big time in that neck of the woods? I've been trying to fathom why TTC seems to have stayed with his third wife, having abandoned the first and seen the other fall down the stairs. The Haynes and Stoddarts were, as far as I know, not particularly prominent families, although I believe there was a NZ magistrate called Stoddart.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4067
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
|
I should add that marrying Frances Augusta would only help him if she was somehow related to the Swanns - unless of course she had money from her own family.
He must have stuck with her for a reason, anyhow.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4068
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 1:22 pm: |
|
Just posting these in case they prove relevant.
JUNE 7th 1860
JAN 30th 1862
WATSON v SWANN
Robert |
