| Author |
Message |
    
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 705
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 10:33 am: | 
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Hi Robert,
I've made the comparison between Druitt & Woolf more than once on these boards. If I'd thought I could have gotten a book out of it, I'd have gone the extra mile to claim Druitt's suicide influenced Woolf's too! 
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3932
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:31 pm: |
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Dave, I should get your article on Diplock published quickly, if I were you! 
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 706
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:58 pm: |
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Hi Robert,
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply someone was cribbing from me. I'm sure I'd be the last resort; I only ever made a very superficial and obvious comparison anyway. I'm not sure what Leighton's original discovery is though.
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3934
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:06 pm: |
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Hi Dave
No, all in good fun.
There are a lot of things in that article I'd like to find out more about. For instance, I wasn't aware that Druitt and Stephen were cousins.
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 707
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 1:16 pm: |
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Thanks, that must be the discovery--"Druitt, who was a cousin of Stephen". I wasn't aware of the link either, if there is indeed one.
Dave |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 637
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 2:24 pm: |
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Does anyone know what this bit is referring to?
It [a scorecard] also shows him playing cricket in Bournemouth two days apart when a murder took place in London on the intervening day.
If I remember correctly, he played cricket in Dorset on two occasions a week apart, either side of the Tabram murder.
If he was really in Bournemouth both the day before and the day after one of the "canonical" murders, that would come closer to an alibi than anything I've seen previously.
Chris Phillips
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 708
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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Chris,
He wrote an article on Druitt & the Blackheath Cricket Club in Ripperologist, May 2003. I haven't read it, but maybe he discusses the scorecard in it.
This site says that Mr. Leighton drops Druitt as a suspect in favor of Arthur Conan Doyle. They also say the book provides a wealth of new information. The title sounds like it's hard to get. Maybe a copy was sent out for review in the Rip? Don't think I've seen one. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3936
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
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I've just dug out the Ripperologist issue. There's no mention of the Bournemouth alibi, but Mr Leighton says that his great grandfather was Derman Christopherson.
Robert |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 736
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 22, 2005 - 5:12 pm: |
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Well, I'm very tempted. I found the book on Amazon.uk and ABE Books. But with shipping it would be almost $45. I'm not sure I want to spend that much on what could be a dud of a book.
Still, I agree with Chris. The Sept. 8 cricket match is already known, but if Monty did play two games in Dorset two days apart with a canonical murder on the intervening day it would amount to almost an alibi. I suspect there has been some confusing with the matches that were one week apart.
Andy S. |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 331
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 6:30 am: |
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Gee,
Its all happening: a study of Coroners practice and Coroners Report holdings in various archives;
the discovery that Druitts(the family solicitors since 1837)actually have photos of venerable Druitt family members on their site to prove it!
And then there's the fact a new book on MJ Druitt
has been out for weeks and we hadn't even noticed.
I'll bet the family have all read it.
From the brief precis of D J Leighton's plot, there does not seem to be a mile's separation from Donald McCormick's scenario when he was trying to dissavow a Druitt guilt.(In his 1959 book, THE IDENTITY OF JACK THE RIPPER).
Well, at least one descendant of a cricketing pal of MJD has put his view of the Druitt Suspicion on the line. His ancestors the Christopherson brothers were giants in County cricket back in those days.I'm not sure that they played with Druitt for Blackheath in 1888 though.
Presumeably, it will tell us more than Irving Rosenwater's CRICKETER article of January, 1973.
Nice going, John and David and Robert and Chris
and Andrew. |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 332
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 6:37 am: |
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By the way, can anybody put their Thinking Cap on to find a way for us to approach Keith Skinner
to discover just what other Druitt information he found which was excess for his THE RIPPER LEGACY.
He is probably sitting on quite a lot of unused information.
He'd probably be prepared to part with it for a consideration... |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3950
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 6:58 am: |
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Hi John
I've never had the pleasure of conversing with Mr Skinner, either face to face or by email, but I guess one avenue might be to approach Caz.
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 710
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 11:05 am: |
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Hi John & Robert,
As it happens, I just wrote Keith a couple of days ago asking about his research, specifically what avenues he took to locate Diplock's records. He's got some things to take care of first before checking his files and then will get back to me--it will probably be awhile as I believe he's got quite a lot of information to sift through. I'll ask him if I can post his reply. David Andersen's another fellow I'd like to hear from since he knows Chiswick very well. We've been corresponding lately and I'll make him aware of this thread.
Re: the Christophersons. I know zero about cricket, but I believe in Dec 2002 Chris Scott posted details of that 8 Sept match Druitt played against them, as well as the 3-4 Aug Parsees match. It's on the archives CD, M.J. Druitt thread.
Thanks for the kind word, John
Cheers
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3952
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
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Thanks Dave. Meanwhile I've emailed Sharen Green and asked for confirmation on the Bournemouth alibi and Stephen cousin claims.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 560
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
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Hi all,
Fascinating to see all this potential information suddenly appearing. There still seem to be some source material out there.
Although I feel this is a dubious suggestion, and am throwing it out for response...would a company or firm that was the site of an unpleasant occurrence (say a suicide or the removal of remains) keep some record of the events of that day in it's official records?
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3953
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 12:51 pm: |
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Jeff, I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you clarify?
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 561
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 3:05 pm: |
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Hi Robert,
Monty's body was found in the Thames off the Thorneycroft works. Could the archives of the firm (which still exists) have a record of the incident?
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3954
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2005 - 3:45 pm: |
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Ah, I see Jeff. Well, I can but try. I've a feeling they'll be more interested in selling me a boat engine. But that's a non-starter, since I don't have a boat to put it in.
Robert |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 333
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 1:29 am: |
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I say chaps and chappesses,
You don't suppose Monty might have been accidentally torpedoed whilst having a winter evening constitutional paddle do you? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3958
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 3:25 am: |
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John, it's my belief he died while testing the new submarine "Resurgam." It was this craft that Macnaghten referred to as lying at the bottom of the Thames.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 562
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:23 am: |
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Hi all,
It reminds me of a comment I once saw referring to the C.S.S. Hunley (which sank the Housatonic in 1864, but was lost somehow in the attack). A writer wrote that it had set the record for submerging, going down in February 1864 and remaining at the bottom since. [This was written in the last century, before it was raised in 2001.]
The Thorneycroft archives is a longshot, I feel, but a distinct possibility. Don't forget that the firm doing serious British (and foriegn) government contractualled work. Most of this was highly secret. Therefore the discovery of a dead body off the site might suggest a foreign agent killed during spying.
This is not as weird as it sounds. There have been cases in the 19th Century of military-industiral espionage, and some have raised their heads into some prominent 19th Century homicide cases. In 1900, during the trial of Herbert Bennett for the murder of his wife at Yarmouth Beach, it was reported that Bennett had made trips to South Africa that were not explained. It was suggested that he might have been doing espionage for the Boers (!) and since he did have a job at the Woolwich Arsenal it may have been true.
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3964
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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Jeff, there's a possible link to all that on the JT Homer thread.
Re my enquiry of Sharen Green, she has referred me to DJ Leighton. But since I haven't his email address, I shall have to wait till my Ripperologist is delivered. Eduardo says there'll be a review in it.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 564
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |
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Hi Robert,
I must be missing it. I have looked at the JT HOMER thread, and can't see the link between Thorneycroft and Homer. Or am I totally off the mark here?
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3966
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
I hope I didn't raise your hopes. It's nothing to get excited about, merely a possible link, or the beginnings of one - Homer may have had a son in the navy. I think Thornycroft had a base on the south coast somewhere.
Have tried one email address for Thornycroft and been told they have no records, but they've given me another to try.
Robert |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 317
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 7:28 pm: |
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Hi Robert.
Thorneycroft built ships at Woolston, Southampton for about 100 years, mostly naval vessels, alas this yard closed in 2003.They were latterly known as Vosper Thorneycfroft.
The shipbuilding business has now moved to Portsmouth and they are known as VT Group. The only e mail address I can find for them is vtgroup@vtplc.com otherwise have a look at their web site, www.vosperthorneycroft.co.uk
Hope this helps.
Regards
John Savage |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3969
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 3:55 am: |
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Thanks John. I don't hold out much hope, but it's worth a try.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 565
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 8:32 pm: |
|
Hi Robert,
It's just a shot, but I just wonder if anyone noted the police activity the day Monty was found. There just might be some comment.
I am also awaiting to hear about the new biography of Druitt, which is a subject on another thread of the Board. It should be curious to see what additional details on Monty's life are dredged up.
Jeff |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3980
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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Jeff, anyone
I recently saw on this site a list of all the newspaper articles so far known regarding Monty's inquest. I can no longer find the list.
Could a Druittist put me straight about this? I am emailing record offices in the hope that one day something new will turn up, but do not want to duplicate what we know.
Today I received a transcription of the Bournemouth Guardian's account, but sadly it's just about identical to the others. Still, as long as I'm not actually asking for a newspaper we already have, then at least it's worth a try.
Robert |
Chris Phillips
Chief Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 655
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 3:49 pm: |
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Robert
I think you mean the list I recently reposted earlier in this thread. You can find it here:
http://casebook.org/cgi-bin/forum/show.cgi?tpc=4922&post=118370#POST118370
Chris Phillips
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3982
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 4:00 pm: |
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Ah, thanks Chris. Right under my nose! 
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 716
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:17 pm: |
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Hi everybody,
I don't reckon this is news, but just for the record I heard back from London Metropolitan Archives. Here are their holdings for the West Middlesex Coroner's district: an incomplete series of expense and inquest returns 1753-1838, coroners' registers 1856-62, and case papers 1890-4. That's out of Monty's date range but it does hit the tail end of Diplock's career. I'm sure anyone who's examined the case papers in person will have seen some of his papers in there (assuming 90-94 is a complete run). I know Dr. Diplock was still hearing cases in Aug 1891 (I don't know if he was holding inquests much later than that since that's about the time he fell ill with oral cancer).
Cheers,
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3988
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
|
It's very frustrating, Dave! Do we have a plan B?
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 717
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 6:13 pm: |
|
It's more like plan 9 from outer space. Seriously, the archivist referred to their holdings as "the surviving records". I'm trying to follow up--if the record of the Druitt inquest really hasn't survived, maybe we can nail something solid down. Admittedly, it's a long shot.
Cheers,
Dave |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 349
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 8:57 pm: |
|
Hello All,
Thought you might be interested in a reference note I made many years ago. Just found it again.
Apparently, Kellys Post Office Directory for 1903,
(and possibly 1910) recorded the existence of a:
"Dr Leonard Bramah Diplock, Surgeon, 21 Heathfield Terrace (is that 'Dr' for Drive or Doctor?).
Now I do know Coroner Diplock did have a son named Leonard B Diplock, but I thought he was in a non-medical business.
Elsewhere I think Robert C Linford, has recorded the names of the several children of Coroner Diplock, one was certainly a Leonard.
Any chance of some gun-genealogist tracking down what happened to the other Diplock children? |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 761
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
|
Hi John,
Thanks for that. Leonard Bramah Diplock was Thomas Diplock's third son and he was a doctor. He was still at Heathfield Terrace when he died in May 1918.
Cheers,
Dave
|
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 350
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 5:15 am: |
|
Well done and Thank you David,
I have harboured a dream for sometime that, even if the official Coronial Inquest minutes have not survived, perhaps some medically qualified relative of long-time West Middlesex Coroner, Thomas Diplock, might have inherited (and cherished) his notebooks or diaries.
It could be conceivable that Dr Leonard Diplock
might have been that legatee.I wonder if the probate Calendar for 1918 shows his decendants?
It would be interesting if we could track down present-day Diplocks and find out once and for all if they hold diaries or journals, blissfully unaware of the treasure therein. |
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