| Author |
Message |
    
Justin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 8:53 am: | 
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When I'm in the East End I often use the road behind White's Row car park as a shortcut, and I recently noticed that someone has fixed flowers and a small card to the warehouse door at the site of Kelly's room. They've been there a long time, as they're quite faded. It reminded me of just how sad Kelly's story is. I decided to go find her grave.
St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Cemetery is in Leyton, a dreary, shabby-genteel part of East London, a few streets off a busy motorway. The over-ground tube line is visible in the distance. The cemetery is well-kept, but extremely crowded. In some parts, walking between the graves is impossible. It's nearly full and some of the older graves are beginning to fall into disrepair.
The attendants are very familiar with Kelly and directed me straight to her grave, which is located near the front among stones from the 1940's and 50's. (The location is approximate, as she was buried in a public grave that was re-used many times.)
I was pleased to see that John Morrison's garish monument ('Prima Donna of Spitalfields', 'Victim of Jack the Ripper' etc.) has been pulled down. Apparently he was unable to pay for it. It was replaced several years ago with a small stone that reads:
MARIE JEANETTE KELLY
NONE BUT THE LONELY HEARTS
CAN KNOW MY SADNESS
BUT LOVE LASTS FOREVER
The grave touches that of a man who died in the sixties. Both are covered in flowers. Kelly's includes a plastic plate from Lourdes, a crocheted Irish flag and a small 'In Loving Memory' urn, erected by the cemetery when the grave was still unmarked.
A lonely place, but maybe (finally) a little peace in such simplicity.
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maryanne
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 6:42 pm: |
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Ah that is so beautiful to read  . I think her story is the saddest really because of the disgusting mutilations inflicted upon her. It's terrible to think this poor woman will be remembered for those awful photograph(s) of her after her death.
Really terrible all the victims' plights really and awful the way that they were pictured in the mortuary too.
Perhaps if they had been from a better class the ripper would've been caught. I do wonder if the police were slow to react when they discovered it was prostitutes being killed. And I wouldn't be surprised if he killed many more than just five.
I'm sure these victims are at peace now whereever they lie - as for the ripper, he deserves no rest or peace whatsoever. |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 169
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 1:26 am: |
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Thanks, John for this description. Mary's is the only one of the graves I haven't spent time looking for yet. Perhaps on my next trip...
In visiting the East London Cemetery and the City of London Cemetery I resolved not to ask for assistance but to search out the graves of Stride, Eddowes, and Nichols on my own (armed with grave numbers). This was partly due to my timidity and partly to satisfy a desire to "find" these lost women.
My first trip to the City of London Cem. was frustrating as I didn't locate the graves. After returning home to the US I found myself nearly obsessed with the thought of finding the graves. Fortunately, I was able to return to London recently and this time I had no difficulty. The graves of Nichols and Eddowes are near each other and in a very pleasant garden area of the cemetery, where created remains are now buried.
I was not able to find Stride's grave at the ELC. I may need to ask for help next time.
Andy
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Robert Charles Linford
Chief Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 899
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 4:32 am: |
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Hi Andy
I believe Supt Foster is buried in the same cemetery as Eddowes.
Robert |
Christian Jaud
Sergeant
Username: Chrisjd
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 6:25 am: |
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Hi Justin,
very nice description!
Here are some pics I took last July.
 |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 362
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 6:36 am: |
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Thank you for the pictures, Christian. Good work.
Hopefully I get the chance to get to London in the nearset future, and finding the graves will be one of my missions as well.
And thank you, Justin, for the wonderful description.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Maryanne
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 10:31 am: |
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Oh those photographs are so beautiful. It's so nice to see it being maintained this way and such a lovely inscription. Who is keeping it so nice? And I'm confused about her name. I thought she was Mary Jane Kelly, but she's Marie Jeanette Kelly? |
Justin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 4:29 pm: |
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The attendants told me that an anonymous person paid for a new stone several years after Morrison pulled his down. The cemetery erected the 'In Loving Memory' urn to mark the grave in the interim period.
Kelly affected the name 'Marie Jeanette' during her trip to Paris with a 'gentleman' circa 1886. Though she didn't like Paris, enough people knew her as 'Marie' to have 'Marie Jeanette Kelly, died 9th November 1888' inscribed on her coffin plate.
Does anyone know what Barnett referred to her as? |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 287
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 3:03 pm: |
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Hi Justin ,
Marie Jeanette was an name that Barnett affectionately called her, [ he obviously placed her on a high pedastool]
She was simply known as 'Mary Jane' by the occupants of the court
Mary Jane Mccarthy by her landlord.
Also ginger, proberly by her liking of ginger beer. also Black Mary , because of her wearing of dark clothes.
I can safely say that the description Marie Jeanette, proberly sums up her common law husbands description of her.
Richard. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 2:08 pm: |
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Hi everyone,
For those of you wishing to locate precisely Mary Kellys grave ,precise instructions are as follows.
On entering the main gates walk around right to the back of the church, follow the footway up till you spot a black waste bin on your right, you will see a white statue , of a football player, a youngster who was a star talent with Tottenham , about 3 graves to his right is Marys grave.
For people travelling by train , get off at Leyton , turn left outside, and left again , then second left, and follow round 100 metres.
I hope this will enable people, to find the site without any confusion.
Regards Richard. |
Glenn L Andersson
Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 417
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 2:13 pm: |
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Hi Richard,
Thank you very much for that information; much appreciated for us who've never been to London before and who can't get help anough with the directions. And I'll bring some flowers for Mary Kelly when I get there as well. Thanks again, Richard.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 179
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 2:40 pm: |
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Thank you, Richard. I hope to pay the gravesite a visit on my next trip. The directions are much appreciated.
Andy
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Justin
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 7:00 am: |
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Richard,
How did McCarthy know her as 'McCarthy'? I've never heard of this. |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 475
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 7:04 pm: |
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Just back from London where I did manage to steal away for a quick look at Mary grave. It still looks just as pictured above, perhaps a few fewer artificial flowers. There was also a partially filled gin bottle on her grave and a rosary hanging from the large cross at the head. Wish I could have spent more time there, but I wanted to hurry on to Stride's grave at East London Cemetery.
DIRECTIONS TO MARY KELLY'S GRAVE:
Richard's directions above will get you there, but may I add a few details?
Upon exiting the Tube Station at Leyton (Central Line, which is ground level at this point) (1) turn left and follow High Road Leyton to the next corner. (2) Turn left onto Calderon Rd. and follow to the third street (inclusive of a street immediately after your left turn onto Calderon). (3) Turn left onto Elmore Road (this is the third street mentioned above) and follow to where it bends at the back of a church (not St. Patrick's). At this point you will see St. Patrick's Cemetery ahead and to your right. (4) Turn right onto Langthorne Road and follow to the Cemetery entrance. (5) Enter and follow the footpath right around to the rear of the church and bear to your right. (6) Follow the pathway to a rubbish collection point. There is no actual bin, but when I was there it contained black plastic rubbish bags. (7) Look to your right and you will see the grave with a statue of a young football player. (8) Mary's grave is just a few graves to its right.
Very easy to locate! Thanks Richard! I may post pictures when I get them developed and scanned.
Andy S. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 760
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 3:23 am: |
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Hi Andy,
Glad the location , was of some help.
A wild assumption, but you would not have happened to have been in london on tuesday, in mitre square, taking a picture or two, for I noticed as I was passing through with my wife, a chap [ blue shirt?] was about to leave, armed with camera. about 330pm.
Proberly not , but worth a mention.
Regards Richard. |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 478
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:48 pm: |
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Hi Richard,
I was in London on Tuesday with my family, but we did not make it to Mitre Square -- so that wasn't me. I have been to Mitre Square in the past, however. Tuesday afternoon we were in the Transport Museum at Covent Garden.
Andy S. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 761
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 2:03 pm: |
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Hi Andy,
It therefore was not you, at least I have a good description of the perpretrator, but I would not swear to reconizing him again, a bit like Lawande.
Richard.
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 481
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 7:02 pm: |
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Richard,
If you want to acquire a good description of me, click on my name at the left.
Andy S. <--- The Perpetrator on Bridge Street. |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 529
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 22, 2004 - 12:26 am: |
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Some fairly recent photos of Kelly's grave, taken on March 24, 2004. On the same day I photographed Stride's grave. See that thread.
Andy S.
Kelly gravesite with headstone and decorations:
Me at Kelly grave:
Holding gin bottle left by someone else:
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thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 32
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 3:30 pm: |
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hello everybody,
while on a trip to london i also visited mjk's grave. here are some pictures, taken on the 19th september 2004.
i really must admit that i don't like this kitties-statue! .-)
 |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1311
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 3:58 pm: |
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Hi all
LOVELY photos!!!
We'll be there on 23rd or 24th October thanks for all the pointers etc!
Sad eh but a must do...will post pix as and when
Cheers
Suzi |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 596
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 4:25 pm: |
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Suzi,
While you're at it you may want to take in Stride's grave. It's not too far away, though a bit further of a walk from the nearest Tube stop. See the Stride thread for directions.
Eddowes' and Chapman's markers are a bit of a disappointment by comparison and should be viewed as memorials rather than gravesites since they only mark approximate locations. But if you have lots of time, it's worth the extra trip.
Andy S. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1312
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 4:40 pm: |
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Hi Andrew!!!
Thanks a lot for that will most certainly be adding that to the list!!!
Annie and Kate however disppointing tho are a must do....specially Kate!
Thanks again!
Suzi |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 947
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 4:50 pm: |
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Hi Thomas
Many thanks for posting those pictures. Much appreciated. Also thanks to Christian Jaud and Andrew Spallek for the previously posted views. Now that kitten surely must be Diddles must it not? 
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 33
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 7:23 pm: |
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hey chris,
i thought diddles was a "decent" cat - so where does the baby come from? .-)
btw - i also had the change to go to the london dungeon as a journalist, so if anybody is interested in the pictures just let me know. i will write a review within the next days.
greetings from germany
thomas. |
Jason Scott Mullins
Inspector
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 317
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 9:36 am: |
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Hi Thomas -
Indeed, I am interested in the pictures and your review 
crix0r
"I was born alone, I shall die alone. Embrace the emptiness, it is your end."
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Maria Giordano
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 87
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:44 am: |
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It's very touching that so many people remember her and go to all the trouble to visit and decorate her grave.
This kind of thing keeps our focus on something we so often forget in the heat of the chase--the very real lives these women had and were so brutally robbed of.
Mags
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 597
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 12:17 pm: |
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If you require further directions, Suzi, to any of the gravesites, send me a private message. I've visited them all within the past 14 months.
It seems that my interest in visiting the gravesites is shared at least by a few. It seems to me that a person's grave is the one most clear reminder that such person really lived and died. To me, the closest I can get to a historical figure is to stand at his or her grave. Visiting their graves reminds me that these poor victims were real people.
A few weeks ago I found it somewhat of a thrill to officiate at an interment in Oak Ridge Cemetery in Springfield, Illinois -- where Abraham Lincoln is also buried (in quite a grand tomb).
Andy S.
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 5:03 pm: |
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Hi Andy!!! Thanks so much for that have sent you a private message ooooh eh!) will be great to hear from you!
Lincoln's tomb sounds something else again!!
Thanks in anti ci...pation!!
Cheers
Suzix |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1348
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 2:17 pm: |
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Hi Andy!
Thanks so much for your emails but have just sent you another message to say that through some cyber mystery they've disappeared from my inbox!!!!!
At the risk of being the biggest p.i.t.a. ever!!!! could you re-send!!
Suzi |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 603
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 1:42 am: |
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Suzi,
I re-sent the directions. Did you get them?
Andy S.
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1392
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 5:26 pm: |
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A N D Y ! No right send em to suzihanney@hotmail.com
Thanks sooooooooo much!!!!!!! xxxxxx s
Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do!
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esm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 5:32 am: |
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Andrew,
in my opinion your pics show little respect.
I don't appreciate this "graveyard-tourism" at all, but if you feel the need to take pics, why posing next to the grave with a bottle in you hand? That's just bad taste.
However, probably most of the community won't agree with me and I don't want to start a discussion about it...
PS: no, I'm not a priest. |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 605
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 9:57 am: |
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esm,
I took the pics for the purpose of historical documentation that I was there and also to share with this community for informational purposes. The bottle was left by someone else and I thought it was interesting so I had it photographed. My holding it was the most convenient way of photographing it.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I believe my conduct at the graves showed great respect. At Stride's grave someone had left a cheap angel statue (the kind you can get at a florist) whose head had been partially broken off. I managed a makeshift repair to the statue before I left.
Graves are historical markers and as such are open to the public. That's why most cemetery gates are unlocked. I would never support disrespectful behavior toward the dead, but I'm afraid I don't find the mere act of photography to be disrespectful.
I've officiated at many a burial and consecrated many a grave -- as a matter of fact I will be doing so in a matter of hours. Disrespect is the farthest thing from my mind.
Andy S.
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1087
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 3:01 pm: |
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Hi Esm.
I Agree entirely with Andy, when i visited Marys grave some months back , i went there with the greatest respect and laid a sizeable bunch of flowers amongst the others laid there. The flowers were from Leanne and myself , as a token that we were in respect for her.
I am sure the vast majority of people who tend the site are those who not only show a healthy intrest in these murders, but also feel compassion for all the victims that were laid to rest by his devilish hand.
I personally found my visit an emotional experience, and well worth the effort.
Regards Richard. |
Matt
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:36 am: |
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Respect is such a subjective term. I agree whole heatedly with ‘esm’ that photographing and especially posing by a grave is not only crass but, to me, shows a lack of respect.
But I am sure that was not your intent, and it is by your intent you must be measured.
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esm
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 5:10 am: |
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Andrew, Richard,
I believe you that you did not want to be disrepectful. As you might have recognized,
I only feel uncomfortable with these pics of Andrew holding the bottle. Thomas and
Christians pics are ok, in my point of view.
If I were a relative of Kelly and would see a complete stranger with a bottle of alcohol
posing next to my relatives grave to take a pic, I would be really pissed off!!!
And so would you I guess... |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 607
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 2:05 pm: |
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I don't want to belabor this point and this is the last I'll say of it.
1. No, I would not be offended if I saw a complete stranger holding a bottle at my long-dead relative's grave. You are welcome to find my father's grave in suburban Chicago and photograph yourself holding up the bottle of your choice.
2. I don't believe there are any relatives of Kelly's that would see this picture anyway and certainly none that actually knew her.
3. The bottle was left by someone else, not by me.
4. The photograph was taken and posted here with the objective of recording something of interest, like saying "look what somebody left here!" In fact, my intent was sort of a visual negative comment, more like "would you believe someone left this here?"
5. My holding the bottle was simply the most convenient way to have it photographed with the grave scene.
You are entitled to your opinion and I do apologize if I have offended you or anyone with this photograph. Elsewhere on this site there is a photograph of Mary's grave with a gin bottle left by someone so I assumed posting another would not be offensive. I will say no more of it unless asked to do so.
Andy S.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3158
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 2:43 pm: |
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Andy, for Pete's sake don't stop posting your photos. As far as I'm concerned, you can be holding up anything you like - as long as it's not a Barbara Streisand record.
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 456
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 2:52 pm: |
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Thanks for the photos, Andy.
Dave |
Greg Hutton
Sergeant
Username: Greg
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 3:40 pm: |
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And whats wrong with a Barbara Streisand record might I ask? |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1438
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 3:48 pm: |
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Hi all
"I agree whole heatedly with ‘esm’ that photographing and especially posing by a grave is not only crass but, to me, shows a lack of respect"
I completely fail to see any logic on this "argument". How on earth is it crass or disrepectful to photograph a grave??? I can see nothing even remotely disrespectful in any of the photos posted above and am thankful to Andy for a record of the grave site and also interested to see the number of floral and other tributes left by visitors.
I am not a Christain - or a believer of any variety - and to me personally a grave is simply a hole in the ground to receive the remains of a dead body. I realise for others it serves as a focus for loss and emotions connected with the deceased and a reminder and, despite my personal attitudes to the afterlife (or lack thereof) I would never allow these to lead me into treating another person's beliefs with anything less than respect. Nothing on this thread posted by Andy has been disrespectful or "crass"
We must remember this is a site dedicated to research and discussion of a case noted for its savagery and visceral details. I will end by simply saying how anyone can be offended by the posting of a photo of a grave (with or without bottle) on a site which includes mortuary photographs sych as those of Kelly and Carrie Brown, is entirely beyond me. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 4:11 pm: |
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Hi,
When I attended the grave I simply took photographs of the spot , and surrounding areas, just to recall that i was there.
I do not find it distasteful if Andrew wanted to photo himself at the scene, [ fair play].
Obviously some people will go to the grave with sick minds just to gloat on the murder and its history.
Hopefuly Andrew and myself and countless others, will visit because they feel a need to pay respect to a lady they possibly have spent many years thinking about, and to witness the flowers laid there is a beautiful thought by true enthusiasts of this mysterious case.
Regards Richard. |
Lindsey Millar
Police Constable
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:27 pm: |
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Andy,
Thank you for your photographs - not distastful at all. I would have done the same, but I'm 3,000 miles away.
Lindsey |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 608
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 12:37 am: |
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Thanks for your support, folks. But just to clarify, I had not intended to stop posing photos -- only to stop talking about the issue raised by ems who, after all, is entitled to his opinion.
Lindsey -- I live 4000 miles from London myself but find the trip quite affordable if I go in the early spring.
Andy S. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1402
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 4:38 pm: |
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ANDY! please can you re send those grave instructions!!!!! Need em xx suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1403
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 4:42 pm: |
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ANDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nooooooo oooh god in the cyber ether somewhere¬¬¬¬¬¬@@'££45^^&&^&!!""3 and all that sort of stuff!
Right send it again! if you can bear to to my email address! suzihanney@hotmail.com
xx
suzi
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thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 35
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 6:12 pm: |
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suzi,
we have something here that is called "private message" (you can reach it by clicking on andys name on the left side)..why don't you try this instead of flooding the threads with requests for directions which are perfectly written down by andy in this thread above?
sorry, but i really find it kind of stressful to read a message and then it only says "please re-send".."could you please" etc.
don't be mad though.
thx.
thomas.
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 610
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 3:29 pm: |
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Suzi,
I sent them again, but I'm doubtful they'll go through this time if they didn't before. Do you have an alternate e-mail address?
thomas,
Suzi and I have tried private messaging each other and we seem to have difficulties with that. I'm afraid that for the time being leaving notes here is the only way we can communicate about this. Sorry for the wasted space. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 3:54 pm: |
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ANDY!
GOT EM AND HAVE SAVED EM SAFELY!!!!!!Thanks soooooooooo much! will send you pix!.....with or without bottles 'eh Lyn!
Thomas
SO sorry to have wasted space...!Am sure we can work through this!
Cheers again Andy!
xx Suzi |
thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 36
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 6:09 pm: |
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hey suzi,
once you have it you will be really pleased with andy's description. it's perfect! i used it myself to find my way from the tube station to the cemetary. thx for that andy..!
greetings from germany
thomas. |
thomas schachner
Sergeant
Username: Thomas
Post Number: 37
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 08, 2004 - 6:46 pm: |
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hello everybody,
as promised here's the review of the "london dungeon" -- it's in german, but i think the pictures speak for themselves.
have fun.
http://www.jacktheripper.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=417
thomas. |
Matt
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 4:08 am: |
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And here we go again….
Chris as you lifted a quote directly from my post I feel I must respond.
It’s a shame you neither read nor quoted or indeed fully understood the first part. “Respect is such a subjective term.” Which if you had full appreciated, your following statement of “I completely fail to see any logic on this "argument” is rendered obsolete. I am sure you do fail to understand. That’s because ‘respect’ and ‘taste’ are subjective.
I am not sure I follow your logic either, exactly what dose spiritual belief have to do with this argument? Why do you feel the need to confirm your atheism, what has the existence or non-existence of an afterlife have to do with respect?
I am confused also as to the so-called ‘historical’ value of a photo of a grave that has already been photographed many times? What does a photo of a stranger by a grave teach us, or our descendants?
Whatever your belief about what happens to the body or the soul, a grave is not a tourist attraction, its not an interesting rock formation or an amusingly shaped vegetable to be stood next to and gawped at.
I will only say in closing that comparing the comparative taste and value of an amateurish tourist photo of a grave to the mortuary photographs of murder victims is feeble Chris, and if you honestly cannot see the difference then I will waste no more time trying to explain my position.
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 1:52 pm: |
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Hi Thomas!!!!
Thanks to everyone!!!!!! Spent a wonderful day here and cleared things up a bit...loads of plastic bottles and stuff(!) that had to go!!!!! Thanks again for the instructions etc and the how to get there bits..it was a genuinely affecting experience.
When I get the pix back will scan and post them
Thanks again
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1445
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 2:03 pm: |
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Matt!..
There is of course no 'historical' value of photographs posted on this thread ...maybe just the fact that people make the effort to get there and pay their own respects in their own ways..That's the important thing!
All I can say as in the above post that it was a genuinely good ( if that can be said) experience and that I personally felt quite close to Mary and the whole thing gave me quite a lot of food for thought.
Suzi |
Beth Lawton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 - 6:30 am: |
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Hi everyone!
Really enjoying reading all your posts. I've been lurking in the casebook for a while now, so I thought I'd join in. I was intrigued by the fact that MJK's headstone was donated by someone who wanted to remain anon. Does anyone have any more info on this? It just seems strange to me.
Beth
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