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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2774
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 6:09 pm: | 
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Sandy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pick up the NEW thread and see what you think!!!!!!!!! will email you!!!!!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2775
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 6:14 pm: |
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Right!! Glenn
Thanks are we all on the same thread now or what?
Suzi |
Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 598
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 1:20 pm: |
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Hi all,
I remembered this from 'The Globe' 16th February 1891. A reporter describes a visit to the convict's office department at Scotland Yard (Black Museum?). Part of the article said
"a hatchet by the door... used by the Whitechapel murderer to hack and disfigure the first (sic) poor girl who fell victim to his fiendish fury in Dorset Street"
Don't know how reliable that report is though, or whether Mary had her own kitchen utensils lying around.
Rob |
Sandy
Sergeant
Username: Sandy
Post Number: 40
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:56 pm: |
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Rob,
I am not sure about the reputation of "The Globe", but some say that JtR is responsible for the start of what is known as "yellow journalism". I do know that after studying numerous newspaper articles of the time, there were a great deal of errors concerning the case. A lot of these mistakes were basically about what could be considered small details. However, in a case like this (or even any case), any detail is anything but small, so I would be cautious with mentions of "a hatchet by the door". What I am willing to do, is after the weekend is over, going through the different articles again and see how many times there is a mention of a hatchet. Perhaps it would also help to do a bit of research on "The Globe" as well to see what type of newspaper they are (were?). Anyway, this would be an interesting angle to look into, if anything else to prove whether or not this little tidbit deserves any real attention or not. Thanks for the info.!
Sandy |
Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 601
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:37 pm: |
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Hi Sandy,
I think it is usually best to treat newspaper reports with some caution until you can get additional verification, preferably from official sources. I suppose after all this time a 'Black Museum' inventory is out of the question.
As far as I am aware, the only mention of a hatchet is in 'The Globe' which I believe is a Canadian newspaper.
All the best
Rob |
Sandy
Sergeant
Username: Sandy
Post Number: 42
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 10:58 pm: |
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Rob,
Thanks again for the info. I will try to look more into this on Monday. Yes, you are quite correct that newspaper reports need to be taken with some caution. If I find anything more on the hatchet, I will post it, though I really don't think it is mentioned anywhere else. Strange though, that they would have put that in. I wonder if they ever had to do a retraction later...could be interesting.
Sandy |
MattyB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 5:40 am: |
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Hi Sandy,
Yes, I agree, you're probably right about the absence of the knife. It would be incredible if the police missed it, and I would be astonished if they did. I was referring in truth to the way in which suspects and other aspects of the case are often cast aside simply because 'the police don't seem to have suspected him'.
I was merely suggesting that I find this kind of reasoning rather nonsensical. Even the police today, with their DNA profiling and forensic capabiltites, not to mention CCTV and so on and so forth, still arrest the wrong person from time to time and let the guilty man go free.
So the idea that a man like Barnett was 100% innocent on the basis that Abberline interviewed him but was impressed by his testimony and didn't suspect him means nothing at all in my opinion.
Incidentally, I do not have a 'prime suspect' and am using Barnett as an example of a suspect often dismissed in Ripper circles for the reasons stated above.
Back to the knife, briefly! Could it not be that police reports/files are incomplete? Do we know everything that was found at every crime scene for certain? Could something like that have been reported separately? Filed away?
Again, I restate that YES, I do doubt that there was a weapon of any sort at the scene of Kelly's murder. But do we really know as much as perhaps we think we do? |
Mr Poster
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 7:37 am: |
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Hello
Was there not some mention by a friend of Melvin Harris who was a surgeon that a hatchet must have been used to split the femur or something?
Mr Poster |
Sandy
Sergeant
Username: Sandy
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:34 am: |
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Matty,
I do not believe that we have all of the police records concerning the case. Hasn't there been mention before that a great deal of information is "lost"? It is frustrating to realize that there could be more information out there somewhere that may answer a lot of questions that surround this case. I am sure that the police made their share of mistakes in the investigation, however just as you mentioned, I do not believe that the police would have missed the presence of a knife. That would be absurd.
Sandy |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 706
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 7:26 am: |
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I don't think that the object on the table was a knife and I agree that the police wouldn't have missed it.
However, there is one factor to take into consideration here. We have all looked at those pictures so many times that the initial shock value has largely worn off. Moreover we are looking at grainy old photographs not the real thing.
The police that went into that room said afterward that even though they were experienced and had seen awful things before, this one topped anything they had ever seen in terms of emotional impact.
Consider for a moment the effect that extreme emotional upset can have on intellectual function. It is possible that they might have missed something because they were so horrified and trying not to throw up. |
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