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Jason Scott Mullins
Detective Sergeant
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 87
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 3:59 pm: |       |
Hello All -
Though I do not like to name names because I prefer to work from the evidence out (not the suspect in) I'll go ahead and add my two cents. La Bruckman/Frenchy No. 2 seems to work very well for me sometimes. Simply because it can be said that this guy was, for all intents and purposes, rather sadistic. I believe I read he would begin to slaughter cattle while still alive.
Now, I'm no sherlock holmes, but I think if this account were true this suspect would be the _only_ known person who could have been in WC at the time (I believe that's being researched) AND exhibited a "documented" sadistic nature.
I don't think any other suspects fit this criteria, Do they?
Of course, this all hinges on if the story were true.. which I don't think we can prove conclusively today.
crix0r |
Neale Carter
Sergeant
Username: Ncarter
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 8:18 pm: | |
Standing up to be counted:
LaBruckman for Nichols/Chapman/Stride/Eddowes for similar reasons to Jason above.
Hutchinson for Kelly.
1. We absolutely know he was there on the night
2. His stated rationale for being there is ludicrous given the weather and time of night.
3. His description of the Astrkhan man is too detailed - reduces credibility of his entire statement
4. If he is really "stalking" Kelly such an obsession based on unrequited love can turn to violence. Kelly was not just ripped but obliterated.
These are working theories and as many have said I'm trying to assimilate all the evidence to come
to some conclusions. If nothing else I've learned much about Victorian London, investigative technique, forensic science and many other fascinating disciplines. Thanks to all.
Neale
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Frank van Oploo
Inspector
Username: Franko
Post Number: 178
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 5:30 pm: | |
Hi Jason & Neale,
I must admit that I don’t know anything about La Bruckman, but from what you said in your post - that he had a sadistic nature - I would say he wasn’t Jack the Ripper, because Jack the Ripper wasn’t a sadist. Some (serial) killers want to see their sexual ‘partner’ suffer, to others it’s the violence or murder itself, some get a kick out of the raping and then killing, whereas for others it’s the other way around. And some want to mutilate. Mutilation was clearly the thing for Jack the Ripper. He probably had no interest in keeping his victims alive while torturing them. For what he wanted he needed to kill quickly, so that he had the most time mutilating his victims, which most probably was the thing that gave him his feeling of total power over his victims.
This is what I understood from, among other things, reading about a mutilating murderer in a book by Paul Britton, a forensic psychologist.
All the best,
Frank
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Robert W. House
Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 9:44 am: | |
Back to the original thread topic...
Arbie LaBruckman - this suspect at least is worth some further research.
Cohen/Kaminsky, Chapman, unknown.
I do not at all agree with Barnett or Kelly (for Stride). Nor do I agree with the idea that Stride, Kelly, or Tabram were not part of the series.
I believe JTR was responsible for all 5: Tabram, Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes, Kelly, plus earlier attacks and also probably later killings.
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 371
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:27 am: | |
I must admit that in recent years I have not had time for much active research, but here is my opinion on likely candidates, starting with the most likely:
1. A completely unknown figure, who will probably (but not certainly) never be known.
2. Kaminsky (not Kosminski)
3. Druitt
4. Perhaps Chapman/Klosowski, but less likely.
In addition, there are a myriad of relative unknowns (such as Dick Austen, De Jong, etc.) that should be investigated. Tumblety and Deeming are among those I have also considered from time to time, though it now seems that Deeming lacked opportunity (seemingly in South Africa Autumn 1888).
I lean toward Kaminsky mainly on the strength of Martin Fido's findings, although I don't think the case collapses if he and Cohen are not one and the same. I still want to know more of Druitt. He seems the right personality type, possesses the physical strength, has the opportunity, and his death provides an explanation for the end of the killings. But he does not fit the witness descriptions. Nevertheless, the amount of importance placed on Druitt by the police is significant.
The request to "stand up and be counted" is a fair one. But we should also remember that not having a firm suspect is not a mark of ignorance or incompetence in investigating a case. Sometimes it is just the opposite!
Andy S.
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Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 3:29 pm: | |
Andy,
Add La Bruckman to your list ... this suspect in my opinion is the Ripper - almost without question. Unless someone can prove otherwise, everything points right to him being the killer... |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 5:04 pm: | |
Hi Andy,
I agree totally with your candidates, apart from Chapman/Klosowski, whom I personally think is out of the question.
Druitt I have always though shoudn't be disregarded, although he did seem to have alibies for at least two of the murders. But I think he is worth to be on the list.
La Bruckman and Cutbush also seems worth looking into, in my view.
Does anyone here know where one can get information about this La Bruckman, and where he's noted -- he seems like an interesting chap.
I may note, that I don't have the "Jack the Ripper A--Z".
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 375
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 5:27 pm: | |
Glenn & Chris,
I would put Chapman/Klosowski considerably below the other suspects I mentioned in likelihood, but I would not consider him out of the question. I would tend to consider Cutbush almost out of the question, but I admit that I don't know much about him. Druitt really didn't have an ironclad alibi. His failure to resemble witness descriptions is more problematic in my opinion.
I would like to find out more about La Bruckman. I don't know enough right now to have an opinion. From the first time I read of him, Dick Austen struck me as a good possibility, but we shall probably never find additional information about him.
Andy S.
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Michael Raney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 86
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 6:12 pm: | |
Ok, I like La Bruckman...... but I am not as yet naming ANYONE as a suspect because I have a couple of theories. I do however believe that the victims are at least:
Tabram
Nicholls
Chapman
Stride
Eddows
Kelly
With at least a couple of attacks and a murder before Tabram and at least 2 more murders after Kelly.
Mikey |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1130
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 6:41 pm: | |
Hi Andy,
The reason that I believe Chapman is out of the question, is that his crimes were of a completely kind psychologically -- a poisoner is too far apart from the more personal and bloody approach displayed by the Ripper. A poisoner is a completely different kind of killer -- and a more cowardly one -- than the Ripper was. Of course there have been killers that occasionally have shifted their approaches, but here we are talking about one systematic wife poisoner, with clear motives for his killings (several ones done in the same fashion) and on the other hand an equally systematic murderer using throat-cutting and mutilation. Chapman's and the Ripper's approaches and personalities are like night and day.
I may not be sure of much in the Ripper field, but apart from the ridiculous Royal Conspiracy tales and the whopping fibs regarding Prince Albert, I believe Mr Klosowski the one to least likely as the Ripper. The fact that Abberline suspected him in retrospect (something I find very disappointing on Abberline's behalf) doesen't mean anything whatsoever.
Furthermore, I don't agree on that Druitt doesen't fit the witness descriptions, because to a large extent he actually does! So that I don't see as a problem at all. However, regarding his alibi, if he was playing cricket matches during one or two of the Ripper murders, I believe that would have been easily confirmed by others and I have always supposed that it was. But I admit, I am not that read up on Druitt as I should be. I will certainly study his whereabouts more thoroughly -- if it is like you say, then it is certainly interesting.
And I still want to know where everybody here has found information about La Bruckman!
Mikey,
Although we can't know for sure, I agree on your thoughts about the victims (the canonical and possible prior offenses), although I do believe Kelly was the last one.
After the "field day" in Miller's Court, I find it rather questionable that the killer would be able to go back to ordinary throat-cutting like in Coles' or MacKenzie's case. We can't know for sure, of course, but I find it hard to attribute any of those to the Ripper.
Regarding earlier attempts, I would very much consider Annie Millwood as a possibility.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 376
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:06 pm: | |
Hi Glenn,
Regarding Druitt, he was not playing cricket during those murders, but rather a few hours afterward. Thus it is not really an alibi. But isn't he a bit too tall and thin to fit most of the descriptions?
Regarding Klosowski, I agree that it's very unlikely for a murder to change his methods to that degree, but not impossible. I put more stock in Abberline's opinion than you do as well.
Cheers!
Andy S.
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 9:47 pm: | |
Hi Andy,
As far as Druitt's appearance is concerned, such features as height and bodily constitution are quite problematic and can't really relied to heavily upon in witness descriptions -- my own research in criminal cases have unfortunately made that all to clear to me, and you can also ask any police officer about the matter.
Besides that, I think he fits the description better than many -- small moustach, clerky appearance and so on.
That thing about the cricket games may be a good point; I don't remember at the moment where he played at those occasions, but if it was possible for him in due time to participate in those after the murders, that is, if the distance wouldn't be too long, I would consider it quite interesting. As I said, Druitt can't be completely discounted.
Yes, in my view it would be not plausible at all for a murderer to have two completely different approaches that he used in such a systematic scale in both cases. We are looking at two completely types of killers here -- and two completely types of individuals. I don't buy it. Abberline had -- like many of his colleagues at the time -- no clue whatsoever about criminal psychology. He thought, that if you're mean enough to poison your innocent wives, then you could also be the Ripper.
I don't want to sound cocky or to discredit the late Mr Abberline, who I believe was quite a good and thorough detective for his time, but that is completely bogus and actually just a lot of crap, judged from our modern standards.
Cheers, Andy!
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:48 am: | |
Hi Glenn,
I have beat my oppinion to death on this thread so I wont continue. I think the important thing to take away from Abberlines interview in the Pall Mall Gazzett is when he tells you what he thought at the time not the suspect he points to.
He states and in the plural sense. We never thought that the ripper was incaserated, locked up in an insane asylum or dead. He states that he thought the most likely theory is that the ripper went abroad.
All the best,CB |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 7:42 pm: | |
http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-frenchys.html
http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4922/4989.html
http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-arbie.html
Read the 2 dissertations above and I'm not sure what that thread is but I read all three of these this morning and now I am wondering what I was wasting time on for the last year... reading all these threads about Tumblety and Chapman, hoping something would come up... well here it is.
I wish someone could dig up some new information on this La Bruckman, I'm not much of a researcher but I definitely enjoy this site as much as anyone else here.
After reading the "Two Frenchies" dissertation, it opened my eyes up pretty wide to this suspect... I definitely think the Casebook should have him on the Suspects page... not enough people know about him.
Chris |
Jason Scott Mullins
Detective Sergeant
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 11:39 am: | |
Hello Chris -
Yeah, I'd hate to have to pick a suspect. However, if I were forced, it'd be LaBruckman and his cousin. For whatever reason in my head two men seem to sometimes work well. Logistics aside, I think two men could have been involved in almost all of the murders. I think it just depends on their level of 'involvement'. Perhaps I should begin giving thought to a suspect?
The problem with this kind of guessing and speculation is that, at this point, it's futile at best 
I guess that's why I haven't tried to tackle the "Who do I finger for it" question.
Hey Frank: When I said sadistic, I was referring to my personal definition. To me, to knock someone out, slit their throat, then mutilate them is rather sadistic. To others (including our killer) it probably wasn't. Sorry bout that 
crix0r |
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:48 pm: | |
Arbie LaBruckman is an interesting suspect. I suggest if you want to learn more about LaBruckman, buy the Casebook CD-Rom. Michael Colon was a regular contributor on the old boards.
The only addition I would make to the suspects listed on my profile is Cutbush. AP's got me thinking.
Take care,
Kevin
|
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 92
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 2:14 pm: | |
I forgot to mention Wolf Vanderlinden's articles "The New York Affair,Parts I&II", Ripper Notes. Well worth reading, Mr. Vanderlinden deeply probes into the Carrie Brown murder. |
Vincent
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 9:46 am: | |
Regarding Druitt, Andrew Spallek asked "But isn't he a bit too tall and thin to fit most of the descriptions?" Wasn't the photo of Druitt sitting at a table taken while he was a student? In my own case, I gained 30 pounds between the ages of 21 and 31, so it might be a mistake to rely too much on that photo, at least as far as his weight was concerned. However, if anyone has any other information on where and when the photo was taken please let me know.
I think Druitt is the pick of a bad lot.
Regards, Vincent
|
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 11:53 am: | |
Hi crix0r,
Indeed it is pretty futile, especially at this point in time, to speculate on who is the murderer... but that's all part of the fun. However, the more we think about things, the more other things start to pop out at us and our theories about all of the suspects mesh somewhat. There are only so many coincidences that can occur before one begins to suspect one or two people and not the rest. That's the point that I am at with the two Frenchies... there are great arguments for alot of the other suspects but this one just blows my mind.
I hope some more information can be unearthed about it. If the writers of those two dissertations (notably Conlon) could come up with the info about the docking times of those boats and perhaps could come up with lists of sailors on those boats, then perhaps we may be able to find, one day, some more information on these two characters.
Makes me wonder if this sailor(Frenchy # 1) wasn't being paid for women's organs by someone like Tumblety. Imagine that twisted web...
Chris |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 10:25 am: | |
One other question that's been burning on my mind lately - if Hutchinson was outside Kelly's flat the whole night, how did the Ripper get out of there without Hutchinson spotting him? Forgive me for not knowing, but was there a period of time where Hutchinson walked away from the area? |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:14 pm: | |
Hi Chris,
I too was a Tumblety supporter and one of the main reasons was that the police suspected him at the time of the murders. there were other reasons. The time line fit he arrived in the England at the right time for the murders to start and fled when the murders stoped. His distain for prostitutes and his supposed collection of female wombs. It also seamed that trouble followed him around. He was arrested in washington in 1890 for suspicious behavior but later realeased for lack of evidence. I dont know how long it would have taken to travel from washington to wisconsin but there was a ripper like murder there 15 days after tumbletys realease.
Forget all of that LaBruckman moves to the head of the class. Thanks for pointing out the 2 dissertation. LaBruckman is a profilers dream He worked as a butcher as many profilers believed. He was cruel to animals and a sailor. If his ship was in port at the time of the murders and he was in WC at the time of the murders then he is a prime suspect. I dont believe in coincideces and I find it hard to believe that a man who was aressted at the time of the WC murders could have just been with Brown the night she was murderd by accident. I believe LaBruckman fits the describtion of the WC fiend and just a side note many johns go by the name Jack. Jack Kennedy for example. LaBruckman used the alias John Francis. I would suggest that maybe both frenchies were involved.
Now haveing expressed or fasination with LaBruckman I caution you Chris with this phrase. NOT SO FAST GONZALOUS. There are people who have spent a lot of time on the case and I am sure they will come and discredit LaBruckman. Every time I read a new Jack book I THINK THAT IS IT THEY HAVE GOT HIM but then someone else comes along. My eyes have been open and I am very interested in Labruckman.
All the best,CB |
Joseph Paul Jackson
Police Constable
Username: Paulj
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
Hello everyone,
I too have a difficult time pointing a finger at a single suspect. After researching most of the "popular" suspects, there is always something about them that says.."No, He's not the Ripper."
This new suspect LaBruckman is an interesting character though even though I havent been a big supporter of the "fled to the U.S." theory. Even though the Ripper very well could have done that. We need some more info on this new suspect. Good luck with your book, Richard.
Paul |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 1:04 pm: | |
CB wrote:
"I dont know how long it would have taken to travel from washington to wisconsin but there was a ripper like murder there 15 days after tumbletys realease."
Any citations on this one?
"Ripper-like murder" for they yellow journalists at the time seemed to be any violent death of a woman anywhere if it sold more newspapers. I'd be curious if this Wisconsin murder was only rumored, real but quite a bit different, or quite similar.
That and I'm from Wisconsin and have never heard of any link so am naturally quite curious. |
Carl Burrows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 1:05 pm: | |
Hello Everyone,
Francis Thompson is my favourite suspect. Along with a lot of suspects,theres a lot of linkages but no actual proof. He just seems a real oddball, wandering around Whitrchapel in a drugged state,looking for a prostitute,he would certainly have had the medical skills and also owned a leather apron,as the Whitechapel murderer was known, before the "dear Boss" letter.
I am trying to find out as much as possible about this guy, as he was born not far from where I come from.
Apart from him I take Donald Sugden's view that you have to look more closely at suspects with an actual violent nature towards woman,and for this reason W Bury would be high on my list,his m,o was very similar and also that chalk messege in the cellar is quite an eerie thought,perhaps his wife discovered the truth and Bury did her in!
Also Cutbush is worthy of consideration
However the feeling I am getting by reading these boards lately there is a real interest in Arbie La Bruck. and I must admit after reading the dissertations I am beginning to lean towards this suspect as the real JTR,who knows perhaps the truth is coming ever closer. |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 1:24 am: | |
Agreed, someone may inevitably discredit him. I am open to that. I am hoping someone can/will, but at the same time I am hoping they can come up with more incriminating evidence Either way, I will be happy to know more.
And yes, I do think the way you mention... when a new suspect comes along that seems promising, I jump on it. But I had never posted on this site in 2 years of reading it and this suspect just sounds so intriguing and possible that I had to post.
So... something just seemed right to me. But I will heed to your warning! |
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