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Message |
    
Brad McGinnis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Brad
Post Number: 136
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 7:59 am: | 
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Hmmm, only a month and a half til April. I wonder if this person is related to George Hutchison or maybe has a photo of Freddie. Anyone smell Arfa Kidne? Brad.
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 665
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 8:18 am: |
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Hi,
It is up to Patricia, to do the best thing, if this is not a build up to a hoax, then I can imagine,it would be horrific to name one of her past relations, as a candidate for Jack, she has other members of her family, to consider.
It would be quite frightening to name a relation of over one hundred years ago, as a major suspect, incase they were looking on, imagination is a scarey thing.
She has to balance, her fears , and doubts, against the names of the victims, who I feel deserve, to have their killer named, who robbed them of their lifes in such a undignified manner.
Regards Richard. |
Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 276
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 8:23 am: |
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Now Brad,
Just because for the third (fourth, fifth sixth?) time someone has popped up with a vague family connection that they really can't go into at the present because they want to do more research and they have to consider the family name, etc, and even though this modus operandi has appeared several times in the past, we can't automatically assume that it's the same ole Mr. Hoaxy-Jokesy as always. It could be an entirely new Hoaxy-Jokesy.
Oh and of course it could be real. :rollseyes: |
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 827
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 1:42 pm: |
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Sorry but I just can’t go along with this dewy-eyed sentimental view of what someone might suffer if they were to confess today that a distant relation was Jack the Ripper.
Anyone today who found out that their nearest and dearest was Jack the Ripper would be camped outside the offices of the ‘Sun’ or ‘News of the World’ at five of a morning begging to tell their story for a vast sum of money, and writing their autobiography whilst that Max fellow piled up the money in the bank.
Personally I would find it a complete and utter hoot to have Jack in the family, and could probably make a remarkable living out of it.
I would prefer to see the sentiment directed towards the victims, thank you very much.
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Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 3:24 pm: |
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Frankly, I think there is too much romanticizing about the victims as well, but AP surely has a point about how it would be a hoot to have Jack on the family tree.
As it is, I have two ancestors who, in 17th century Connecticut, died "when a platform collapsed at a public gathering" (they were hanged) and while hardly in Saucy Jack's class they are much more interesting than most of the other codgers who clutter my family's past.
Don. |
Kris Law
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kris
Post Number: 127
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 3:38 pm: |
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Don,
Why do you think there has been too much romanticizing about the victims as well? Surely their fate allows them some bit of dignity that they were robbed of in the last few moments of their lives, doesn't it?
I'm not attempting to argue with you, just curious as to why you think so.
If you mean that you don't think the fact that they were victims should get in the way of new or vital information being released I totally agree with you.
If anything I would just like to know more about the victims so that they aren't just names and pictures in their caskets. Which is why I loved seeing Annie Chapman before she was killed.
Just wondering,
Kris |
Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 142
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 4:46 pm: |
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Kris,
I knew that was going to get me in hot water, but I'm getting used to it.
Anyway, I am not trying to make light of their fate, which no one ought suffer. Nor am I referring to the combination of circumstances that so reduced them that were prey for the Ripper, lesser thugs, poverty and disease.
Rather, I referred to the occasional postings that "this or that victim" couldn't have been a prostitute; an argument I recall not long ago that one particular victim would have been a college educated linguist if she'd only been born later, that another was "obviously" a particularly intelligent person, loving and giving and so on. There was even a thread soliciting recipes "in honor" of the victims. Heck of a lot of good that will do any of them.
I don't mean to make light of the victims and their largely miserable lives, but in most cases we know more about the victims than any other aspects of the crimes and like it or not we should stick to what is fact and not sentimentalize. For most of the victims, the descent into the hell of Whitechapel was fueled by alcoholism, a lamentable affliction, but one that still claims many victims today -- with or without the advantages some of the victims lacked.
Look, I'm probably just a curmudgeon, but even as the old song cautions "[they are] more to be pitied than censured" I am bothered by the way some postings seek to make the victims much more than they were -- or likely ever wanted to be. They were, each in her own way, unfortunate women who were doubly unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
And yes, that photo of Annie Chapman is very poignant. She looks for all the world like someone for whom the world will be, if not her oyster, certainly a very satisfying clam. Instead, and for reasons we surely will never fully know, it didn't turn out that way. That is -- again -- quite unfortunate, but it cannot be changed by making Annie into something much different and much better than what she was. Yet, that is exactly what some few posters do from time to time when discussing the victims.
If you've gotten this far, that Kris was all I meant.
Don. |
Kris Law
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kris
Post Number: 128
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 5:06 pm: |
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Don,
I totally agree with you. I've seen it myself in a few posts.
To me it seems that we need to tread a very subtle middle ground, where we remember that these were real women with children, and presumably (I hope) people out there who loved them, and at the same time don't get bogged down in only the victims and their lives like that fellow (sorry I can't recall his name right now) who put up the tombstone for Mary Kelly then seemed to become obsessed with her, and apparently now keeps the broken pieces of her tombstone under his bed.
In reality, knowing who they were probably doesn't bring us any closer to finding out who killed them, but at the same time, what's the point of finding out who killed the victims if the victims themselves aren't worth caring about?
I know it doesn't sound like it Don, but I'm agreeing with you.
Kris |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 366
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 5:37 pm: |
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I suppose everyone is different, but I have to agree that it would not bother me to find out that one of my ancestors were Jack the Ripper. In my case that would hardly be likely since my ancestors were in Texas and in Russia during the time in question (no, none of them named Ostrog or Pedechenko!). But let's imagine one of my ancestors was the Austin, Texas Axe Murderer. What of it? It's no skin off my nose. Maybe this is more of an American attitude. Family lineage is not as important to us as it is to many Europeans.
Also, why are we still subjecting ourselves to wondering if every interesting post is a hoax? Anyone out there still think our friend 'Arfa shouldn't be banned?
Andy S.
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Donald Souden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 143
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 5:47 pm: |
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Kris,
I know it doesn't sound like it Don, but I'm agreeing with you.
And I with you -- except you seem to have said it all in a lot fewer words. And that is definitely to your credit.
Don. |
Brad McGinnis
Detective Sergeant
Username: Brad
Post Number: 146
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 5:50 pm: |
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To answer this and that...Kris, you saw Annie Chapman before she was killed? How old are you?? Regarding banning Arfa...hes been here along time. To concoct a hoax that takes in so many people means he has enough knowledge about the case to be credible. That gives him some grudging respect in my book. Its not like hes getting 6 million bucks to come up with an unworkable fabrication. (Like some we know.) Brad |
patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:04 am: |
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No hoax. If you look back at my first message when I thought I knew something. Right street wrong area. he is now no more a suspect than any other throat cutting suicide in London in 1890. I am hitting brick walls in family research. The church have given me minutes letters etc,. I am sure they have more than the little I have. Maybe I should come back when I can learn more. really no hoax: No evidence and a few coincidences,thats all.
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Sarah Long
Chief Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 615
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:25 am: |
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To all you who think it would be no big deal to reveal a distant family member as Jack well I personally don't think I could. First of all there is the fact that people start thinking it's hoax, secondly, it could upset your family. Imagine people finding out that your great grandfather was the Ripper and everyone else knew who doesn't respect this case or research into it at all, they could very well turn nasty on you.
I mean, look what happened to James Maybrick's headstone.
Sarah |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 368
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:50 am: |
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Let me clarify. While it would not bother me to know that my ancestor was JtR, I would not go around trumpeting that fact. I wouldn't reveal it to the press or be any more likely to write a book about it than I would be if JtR were someone else's ancestor.
In short, it wouldn't bother me if it became known, but I wouldn't go out of my way to reveal it.
Andy S.
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Ally
Inspector
Username: Ally
Post Number: 278
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 11:06 am: |
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And if people are truly bothered by the fact that one of their ancestors might have been JtR, then they shouldn't voluntarily go on a bulletin board and announce the possibility and then say "oh, no, I really can't say any more" when questioned.
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Kris Law
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kris
Post Number: 129
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 11:07 am: |
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Yeah, but you know what? That's probably the exact reason this case hasn't been solved yet. I have no doubt at all that there are several people out there who know for certain who the Ripper was but won't come out with it out of some sort of ridiculous family pride . . . news update, this all happened OVER a hundred years ago, whoever the killer was you certainly
didn't know him. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Chief Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 668
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 4:25 am: |
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Hi Patricia,
If you are reluctant[and I do understand] to name this past relative, could you at least answer some of the following questions.
His address at the time, just the road will do.
His age at the time.
His occupation.
Any description , of height approx, or build.
His medical history [if known]
The cryptic clue , he left.
The date of his suicide.
And anything of further possible intrest.
You do not therefore have to name this person, but the people on this site, will find any relevant details, of great intrest.
Regards Richard. |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 12:07 pm: |
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This is a puzzle with too many good pieces AKA suspects to place in the role of Jack the Ripper. When looking into all the suspects good or silly there is an interesting histroy behind them all. Whoever Jack the Ripper was he maybe some one on the long list of suspects. Or he may not have ever been on the list at all. |
patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 7:02 pm: |
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ally,I went on the board because at that point I had a street name.I thought I had placed him there.
How many suicides were like this, in that time any way?. It may have been common. As for family pride, I could get the nobel prize for prattishness for this one......Patricia |
patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 2:44 pm: |
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I have some records, it is the coincidences I want to discuss. Can anybody tell me if there are any figures on throat cutting suicides done with a knife as opposed to a cut throat razor? Patricia |
Patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 8:48 am: |
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Ok . Very thick beard and tash from photo. Pale skin. close set eyes. Late middle age. Middle class. Church. connection could possibly be Anderson. Periodically deranged. Married. Possible motive pertaining to his illness. Church suggested change of job after many years. Then he commited suicide. Message not only said Kings of Judea were against him but also everyone else too. At first I thought I had placed him there. Now I cant, so you see he is no more a suspect than many others. Patricia |
L.K. Cook
Police Constable
Username: Xinda
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 21, 2004 - 8:25 pm: |
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Patricia, could you post this photo that you speak of? I, and possibly others would like to take a gander at the old chap. You have peaked my curiosity!
Xinda
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patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 26, 2004 - 8:09 pm: |
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Xinda, I dont really want to . But I can give a few more details from photo. Hair was thinner and eyebrows were slightly lighter than beard. Beard was very very dark and thick as was tash. He was balding. Quite pale with thinnish face. Untill I do more research I cant really say more. Found another possible connection to Anderson though.Through a lady called habershon. |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 644
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 27, 2004 - 2:35 pm: |
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Hi Patricia
Ah then you are talking about Ada R. Habershon (1861-1918), for whose books The Bible and the British Museum and The Study of the Parables Sir Robert Anderson wrote prefaces.
Best regards
Chris George
(Message edited by ChrisG on February 27, 2004) |
patricia
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:56 am: |
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Yes thats the lady,Can you tell me anything about inspector Cox Please and his suspect? We have a Cox who was supposed to have been a detective then, nobody seems to know who he was.There is also a connection with railways(not to do with cox).Still trying to dig up family info on net but its not easy.Family stories are not easy to research. I found out distant relative had same thought once re JTR. Patricia. |
Jessyca
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 12:49 pm: |
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I need one of you to help me...I am a junior in high school, and I just recently discovered the "Ripper" murders...I am writing a 10-12 page research/persuasive paper on Jack the Ripper...I NEED HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Rai-Rai
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 2:29 pm: |
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Hey! I'm doing a project on Jack the Ripper for school and this is one of the greatest sites so far so thanks for all the pictures and info! You guys really rock! |
Pat
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, October 16, 2005 - 1:46 pm: |
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Have been digging and still find no connection. I think I am wrong probably. Have found he did have a young uncle in Haggerston but thats all. I think to do a project from a personal point of view would be a good project. From my own experience a lot of things get distorted when there is a suicide. What did emerge was that at times he was very ill and had a battle going on with the church. Dont think I will ever get access to anything more than was given. Maybe I to have the delusional family trait and am making the crime fit my man. .......Interesting though. Patricia
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