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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2418
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:34 am: | 
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The Murder and Attempted Murder of Women - London 1877
January.
10th. Kate Quinn. Murder and Mutilation. Domestic. Indoors.
(The use of the murdered woman’s apron to clean up the mess and cover her face is interesting in this case.)
14th. Eliza Doyle. Murder and Mutilation. Domestic. Indoors.
21st. Anne Sutton. Murder and Mutilation. Domestic. Indoors.
February.
9th. ??? Wyness. Murder and Mutilation. Domestic. Indoors.
9th. Lydia Green. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
15th. Margaret Tracey. Attempted Murder. Non-Domestic. Outdoors.
19th. Chistina Tyler. Attempted Murder. Non-Domestic. Outdoors.
March.
2nd. Ann Sutton. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
17th. Sarah Shadbolt. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
17th. Martha Gadd. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
21st. Liz Finemore. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
April.
May.
2nd. Rebecca Weston. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
10th. Margaret Walsh. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Outdoors.
11th. Mary Shaw. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
21st. ??? Firfield. Murder and Mutilation. Domestic. Indoors.
(Both parties in this murder were blind.)
25th. Unnamed girl. Rape and (possible?) Attempted Murder. Non-Domestic. Outdoors.
June.
3rd. Ellen Flynn. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
10th. ??? Hyde. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Outdoors.
18th. Jane Hendy. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
July.
2nd. Miriam Angel. Murder. Domestic (?). Indoors.
(This is the Lipski case.)
4th. Elizabeth Jackson. Murder and Mutilation. Not known. Not known.
(This is the Regent’s Canal murder and mutilation and the victim was believed to have been an ’unfortunate.)
August.
September.
20th. ??? Ashburton. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
21st. Esther Bird. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
October.
6th. Emma Kendall. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
7th. Matilda Horton. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Outdoors.
(The incident took place on a train.)
10th. ??? Barnes. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
13th. Martha Bodger. Murder and Mutilation. Non- Domestic. Indoors.
(Although the crime did not take place in London, I have included it because of the astonishing similarity to the MJK case.)
November.
8th. Ada Newman. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Outdoors.
?th. Honorah Cotton. Attempted Murder. Non-Domestic. Outdoors.
25th. Kate Reynolds. Attempted Murder. Domestic. Outdoors.
(This case has a taste of Cutbush about it.)
December.
6th. Johanna Brickley. Murder. Domestic. Indoors.
Out of 31 cases of murder or attempted murder in 1887, 19 of these were domestic and took place indoors.
5 of these domestic/indoor murders included mutilation.
Of the 10 cases that took place outdoors, 5 were domestic crimes and 5 were ’stranger’ crimes.
2 cases are either borderline or unclear.
Of the 31 cases found only 1 involved a prostitute.
(This is by no means an exhaustive list as more cases are definitely to be found; and I would welcome input from anyone else who has found other cases of murder or attempted murder in 1887.
I have included attempted murder in cases where it has been obvious that if a third party had not intervened the victim would have been murdered.
I also realise that the results leave me with some egg on my face, but hey I kinda like egg, and it is wise to remember that this is just one year and there are a few more to come yet.)
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2419
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:38 am: |
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Sorry, that date at the top of the post should of course read '1887' and not '1877'. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4854
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:00 am: |
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Great stuff as ever, AP. May 21st is mind-boggling.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2420
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
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Indeed, Robert, and I believe the judge felt that the mutilations may have happened as the blind man was attempting to find his mark, so to speak. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2053
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:47 am: |
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Hi AP,
And is it really true that you found no equivalent cases at all for 1888, apart from those we already know about in a ripper or torso murderer context?
It does seem astonishing, if so.
Love,
Caz
X |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2422
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 1:12 pm: |
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Thanks Caz.
No, I don't think I ever said that.
I believe what I said was that I found it remarkable that Jack was the only man killing prostitutes in the East-End of London in 1888, for all prostitutes murdered in that year are generally assigned to Jack.
That is what I find astonishing.
You see, my previous comments were based on a general read through the reports, but now I actually catalogue the various crimes I do see that some of my earlier impressions - and comments - may have been very much wrong.
As a for instance, some form of mutilation associated with domestic murder indoors is not as uncommon as I thought in the LVP - as the results do show above - and in fact I have just found yet another domestic murder from 1887, indoors, in which the victim was severely mutilated while being murdered. For some reason the crime was classified as 'manslaughter', and hence escaped my original search.
What I must say though, and it is evidenced by the results I have so far seen, is that mutilation after murder is extremely rare, whilst mutilation as part of the murder process is more common.
This does make the murder and mutilation of MJK unusual to say the least; and may well be a useful indicator that the crime was not in fact a domestic one.
Once I am done with 1887, I'll move onto 1888, and we'll see what the results show. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2348
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 1:41 pm: |
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Very interesting AP.Look forward to seeing 1888 results.
Natalie |
Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 630
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 3:02 pm: |
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Hi AP,
I believe Elizabeth Jackson was murdered in 1889.
All the best
Rob |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2424
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
|
Thanks Rob
and twice in 1885.
But you are very likely right, as I'm probably confusing the Jane Doe in the Regent's Canal from the 4th June 1887 - reported on the 4th July 1887 - with that of 1889.
Name wrong, but murder right.
Please forgive, so many canals and so many murders. |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 859
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 7:56 pm: |
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A.P.
This is a remarkable list for a couple of reasons [ and thanks very much for taking the time to place that list. Its an education. ]...
"Of the 31 cases found only 1 involved a prostitute."
Over 25 percent of the domestic/indoor attempted murders involved mutilation.
Which brings up a question for you or anyone else..
What constitutes a mutilation? A stabbing as opposed to a bludgeoning?
For instance, in the 25 pct. of the domestic / indoors attempted murders, does this mutilation refer to knifings or stabbings...the use of sharp weapons or objects...as opposed to a pummeling by fist, blunt object,or gun shot?
I don't expect you to read every case on the list, but do these cases mention the use of sharp objects beyond the simple stabbing?
As ever,thanks a lot A.P. This is terrific material.
(Message edited by howard on August 24, 2005) |
Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 853
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 1:23 pm: |
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Hi AP,
I don't think a lot of the cases would be explicitly labeled as prostitutes even if they were, and I, like Howard, question just what you mean by mutilations here.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2428
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 2:08 pm: |
|
Fair comment, boys, and I did not record the art of mutilation - but will at some stage, and will now include it when I look at other years.
Yes, what yardstick can we use for the term 'mutilation'?
This is the problem.
Obviously cases of extreme mutilation - such as MJK's - are very rare; and I would be prepared to argue the toss with anyone that most mutilation as extensive as MJK's is not mutilation at all as we term it here, but rather a rational desire to dispose of a body to avoid capture.
Several cases I examined involved the use of a hammer - or similar - where the victim was hammered well beyond death... I would classify this as intentional mutilation.
Another poor woman was murdered and set fire to, her entire body burnt in the process... now was this one mutilation?
For now I have classified 'mutilation' as wounds or injuries not causing death but dealt by the same person and instrument that has struck the death blow.
But this is very much my own research tool and of course I am willing to listen to a higher god in this regard.
As regards 'prostitutes', I do read the lines, and between them, and it is my opinion that the press and police of the LVP were not shy in this regard, and one usually knows when one is dealing with a case that involves an 'unfortunate'. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2882
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 2:56 pm: |
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Ap
This is amazing!!!!!!!!
Am on the case here re the late 1888 horrors
Suzi |
Debra J. Arif
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dj
Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 6:19 pm: |
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Very interesting AP.
I have often thought that MJK was on her way to ending up like Elizabeth Jackson, parcelled up somewhere.
Debra |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2062
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 5:36 am: |
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Hi All,
It would be useful if mutilations on a very obviously dead body could be singled out, and cases where the motivation was not obviously to dispose of the corpse entirely.
Hi AP,
Sorry if I misinterpreted you. So what you found remarkable is that Jack 'was the only man killing prostitutes in the East-End of London in 1888, for all prostitutes murdered in that year are generally assigned to Jack'.
I take it you no longer find this remarkable, now that you have found only one confirmed prostitute victim out of 31 cases the year before, in the whole of London.
Good on you for researching this!
Have a great weekend all.
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on August 26, 2005) |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2435
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 2:17 pm: |
|
That's it, Caz.
And I duly admitted that I had egg for breakfast and much of it stuck to my face.
That one confirmed prostitute victim is no longer confirmed, however I am not unduly bothered by that fact, simply because truth will out... even when I get more egg on me grizzled old visage.
The search for 1887 is by no means over, so I'll not wipe the egg off just yet.
Thanks for your positive comments. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2436
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
|
Debra
the fact that MJK was mutilated thus indoors has always given me the impression that the killer intended to throw the lot in the Thames; and that he was simply disturbed at some stage of that process... and fled, leaving us with a mutilation murder and mystery. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2073
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 3:49 am: |
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Hi AP,
But if the body was destined for a 'Druitt', why were some organs taken out and left where they were left? Why the mounds of flesh on the table? Her killer made it very hard for himself if his intention was to scrape all the bits back together so he could deposit everything in the river.
My impression is exactly the opposite - that her killer meant her to be found just as she was found.
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on August 31, 2005) |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2452
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 5:16 pm: |
|
I'm inclined to agree with you here, Caz, but the brandy might be doing that.
The killing and mutilation certainly seem to have more of the madness of someone like Richard Chase at the helm; but that doesn't mean to say that I agree the killer was 'posing' his victim.
What I'm going to do is take a long look at similar murder and mutilation and then get back to you.
For all we know at the moment the killer may well have run out of black bin liners.
Or their equivalent. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2497
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
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1888 .
The Murder and Attempted Murder of Women in the East End of London.
January
13th - Hannah Bowles - Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Poison
26th - Lucy Clarke - Murder - Indoors - Stranger - Knife
February
2nd - Postami - Murder - Outdoors - Domestic - Knife
March
6th - Margaret White - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Poker
7th Stallion - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Poker
April
3rd - Eliza Lowe or Gow - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
5th - Annie Headland - A/Murder - Indoors - Stranger - Poker
7th - Emma Smith - Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Knife (?)
28th - Annie Smith - Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Unknown
(this last case may well have been suicide.)
May
8th - Johanna Smith - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Gun
8th - May Smith - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
(the same man attempted to murder two sisters.)
22nd - Mary Newman - Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
(this is the possible prostitute. Her throat was slit 9 times.)
22nd - Maria Wright (or Bright) - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Hammer.
June
July
11th - Mary Cowen - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
August
1st - Bright - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Hatchet
20th - Elizabeth Bartlett - Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Hammer, Knife & Razor
23rd - Annie Patterson - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
September
12th - The Thames Mystery - parts of murdered woman found in Thames - Murder
14th - Jane Uberfield - A/Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
(The father claimed to have animals crawling under his skin.)
28th - Miriam Allison - A/Murder - Outdoors - Domestic - Chopper
October
17th - Sarah Brett - A/Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Knife
26th - Sarah Brown - Murder - Unknown - Domestic - Knife
(Killer HMP’D.)
November
22nd - Annie Farmer - A/Murder - Indoors - Stranger - Knife
(This case needs urgent attention.)
December
11th - Lucretia Pembroke - A/Murder - Indoors - Stranger - Knife
(Again needs looking at, as it appears that when someone cuts another person’s throat it is quite normal to nick a part of the ear off.)
24th - Rose Mylett - Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Rope (?) etc.
(The lady was ‘unfortunate’.)
I have not included the murder cases most often ascribed to the Whitechapel Murderer.
It is important to stress that I have used the cases of attempted murder where they have been so described by the police of the day. |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 941
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:11 pm: |
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As per usual,A.P.....this is a terrific effort on your part.
In regards to this:
October
17th - Sarah Brett - A/Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Knife
Could you possibly find out if the woman was or was not a prostitute ? As an additional goodie, could you or do you know which street she was murdered on?
Another 5 star thread,A.P. Top shelf research, from a top-notch person who has never failed to share her goodies !
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2499
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:26 pm: |
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Hard to say, How, she was living as wife with one but the pair of them were up for her attempted murder, that is Thomas Onley and Frank Hall.
My reading of the case is that she was rather a pain than a prostitute.
The crime took place at Hornsby Street, Peckham, and regardless of my reading of the crime, the injured lady could well be of the unfortunate class.
She certainly kept unfortunate company. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2426
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
|
Hi AP,
A truly brilliant contribution!
This is what we have needed quite badly-exactly this type of information.Sensational Stuff!
Natalie |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2500
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 1:52 pm: |
|
Thanks Natalie
I'm going to start work on 1889 tonight, and we'll see what that brings.
It is worth noting that 1888 did end with a horrific murder and mutilation - of a small boy, well outside of the East End - but I had the feeling when reading through the year that such crimes were entirely influenced by the activities of the Whitechapel Murderer.
See you in 1889. |
Helge Samuelsen
Inspector
Username: Helge
Post Number: 256
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 2:12 pm: |
|
Kudos, AP. I'm smiling.
You're my number one, as always. Brilliant is indeed the word.
Helge
"Logic is the beginning of wisdom; not the end." -- Spock (Star Trek VI)
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2508
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 1:51 pm: |
|
Thanks Helge
you are making me blush, and after all, all I did was read a newspaper... for about three hundred hours. |
Debra J. Arif
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dj
Post Number: 76
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 9:40 am: |
|
AP
Well done with the research, great stuff.
It seems to be spread across lots of threads and I am having trouble catching it up with it all and reading some of the cases from The Times too, You have been very busy!
Some interesting finds there!
Debra |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2512
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 11:33 am: |
|
Looking at the figures for 1888.
There are 25 murders/attempted murders.
9 of these are murders.
13 incidents are domestic & indoors.
Only 3 cases are domestic & outdoors.
9 cases are ‘stranger’ crimes.
4 of them indoors and 5 of them outdoors.
Only 2 cases possibly involve prostitutes.
It is interesting to note the sudden increase in ‘stranger’ crimes after October 1888.
This is very likely as a direct result of the massive press coverage given to the Whitechapel Murders over this same time period, leading to a direct influence on the behaviour of ‘strangers’ who would or might kill women.
Remember that in the previous year, 1887, only 5 ‘stranger’ crimes took place over the entire year, whilst in 1888 we have almost as many stranger crimes taking place in a quarter of that year.
Worth noting too is that out of the 4 stranger crimes 3 involved the use of a knife.
So, in 1887 we had 31 such crimes; and in 1888 we had 25 such crimes. Now add the normally assigned victims - 6 - of the Whitechapel Murderer to the total for 1888 and it gives us exactly the same figure as for 1887: 31.
This leads me to suggest that although the crimes of the Whitechapel Murderer were unusual, the murders were not. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
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A.P.
It is interesting to note the sudden increase in ‘stranger’ crimes after October 1888.
This is very likely as a direct result of the massive press coverage given to the Whitechapel Murders over this same time period, leading to a direct influence on the behaviour of ‘strangers’ who would or might kill women.
Or is it possible that in the fevered atmosphere following the Whitechapel Murders, victims were more likely to report such crimes?
Certainly in the U.K. pretty well every apparent rise in the crime rate is "explained" by the Government as the result of improved reporting of crime.
Chris Phillips
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2513
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 1:08 pm: |
|
Good point, Chris, and it is one that I have given considerable attention to in the past.
However in these cases that I've found here the women were so badly injured that they could have easily died from their wounds, hence needing urgent medical care and attention... plus there was almost always the intervention of a third party who not only saved the woman from further attack but also reported the incident to the police.
But I do understand what you mean, for I have found such cases where the injuries are not so severe and the woman has been reluctant to come forward... so yes, the frenzy in the press would have spured such victims to report such lesser attacks, but rest assured, the cases I have found here were all of a very serious nature. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 1:58 pm: |
|
A.P.
Thanks - that's interesting.
It would be interesting to know more of these 3 strangers who carried out serious attacks with a knife in late 1888 - particularly where the attacks took place, whether the attackers were apprehended and if not whether we have descriptions of them.
Chris Phillips
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 788
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 2:03 pm: |
|
Its frightening to think that though we've always had SK's with us, they seem to feed on each other's exploits and this contributes, in an age of ubiquitous media, to proliferation.
BTK said he was inspired by JTR and Son of Sam. Could this be why serial killing seems to have become a growth industry in the late 20th century? Movies, books, websites, newspapers, TV news all describing in detail the actions of these people and all of it inspiring more sickos?
In fact I've wondered if these boards could attract the attention of such a person. |
Steve Swift
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 3:55 pm: |
|
AP
Brilliant research.
I think what we should be looking for here are four things.
Victim should be a prostitute.
Strangualtion with or without ligature
Throat cut
Mutilation after death.
These are,I think,the signatures of our killer.
I personally have never believed MJK was a domestic, her killing bears all the hallmarks of the lust killer.You are 100% correct when you say that mutilation is not uncommon DURING murder in a domestic situation.Domestic crimes usually involve rage compacted into a very short space of time during which a LOT of damage is done to the victim.
MJK was not killed in this way. She,like the other victims,was dispatched very quickly so our killer could indulge himself.Rage was not a factor in this crime.
Personally I believe that its quite possible that your search through early attacks/killings in 1888 could turn up a couple of early victims of a 'fledgling' Jack the Ripper, especially after November 1887. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2515
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 5:54 pm: |
|
Thanks Debra
as I said to Robert a few posts ago, it was through your good self and Robert that I got the key to unlock this reluctant door.
So I owe you big time for that favour.
Thanks Steve
all that will come later, I hope.
All I have been doing so far is showing that certain folk are very much in the wrong when they claim that the murder rate of women in the East End of London was about one a year in 1887, 1888 & 1889.
I'm presently in August of 1889.
When that is done and dusted, we will get down to the other myths that these wretched prophets preach.
I have cleared my decks, loaded my powder, my monkeys are jumping, and I aim to take no prisoners in this battle. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4984
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
|
AP's spotted this one. July 22nd 1889
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2517
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 4:41 am: |
|
Thanks for that, Robert.
I thought this case a good example of the lesser type of attacks that Chris referred to in an earlier post. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2518
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 8:47 am: |
|
1889 - The Murder & Attempted Murder of Women in the East-End of London.
January
12th - Rose Payne - A/M - Indoors - Stranger - Poker & Razor
(possible prostitute.)
26th - Susan Ashman - A/M - Outdoors - Domestic - Knife
29th - Caroline Butler - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
February
9th - Mary Baker - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
26th - Mary Gadstone - A/M - Outdoors - Domestic - Knife
March
1st - Louis Spears - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Poker & Razor
April
11th - Marie Greene - Murder - Indoors - Domestic - Gun
16th - Isabelle Johanna - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Tongs
26th - Emily Valetine - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Iron Bar
May
20th - Caroline Charles - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
(this case has reference to the Whitechapel Murderer.)
June
July
1st - Margaret Webb - A/M - Outdoors - Stranger - Knife
(the assailant had already killed a man before he attacked this victim.)
17th - Jessie Miller - A/M & Rape - Outdoors - Stranger - Unknown
18th - Alice Mackenzie - Murder - Outdoors - Stranger - Knife
(prostitute)
26th - Elizabeth Jackson - The ‘Thames Mystery’. Murder.
(prostitute ?)
August
3rd - Alice Ellison - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Razor
September
7th - Alice Crowley - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Scissors
(a prostitute.)
11th - Pinchin Torso. The Murder & Mutilation of a prostitute.
October
25th - Maria Haywood - A/M - Indoors - Domestic - Knife
November
December. |
Debra J. Arif
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dj
Post Number: 77
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 9:28 am: |
|
AP
>>July 26th -Elizabeth Jackson-'The Thames Mystery'.Murder. (prostitute ?)<<
From most accounts I have read of her murder, Elizabeth Jackson was described as an unfortunate.
Including in a version of her autopsy.
I read in The Times recently that Elizabeth, although not associated with the area, spent 5 weeks not long before her death in a Whitechapel lodging house, probably for another thread though.
Debra |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2519
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 1:31 pm: |
|
Thanks for that, Debra.
It has been some months since I read the accounts concerning Elizabeth, so your prompt is most welcome. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2526
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
|
I’m pleased to be able to produce the final figures for the murder of women in the East-End of London over the years 1887, 1888 and 1889.
1887 13 Murders
1888 9 Murders
1889 4 Murders
Total 26 Murders.
As can be seen this is considerably more than estimated by Rumbelow, who maintained that it amounted to ‘one a year’ for the three years.
The 45 very serious attempts at the murder of women in the East-End must also be taken into account when trying to build up a factual picture of the social climate of the LVP at the time of the Whitechapel Murders.
It is worth noting that only 5 of the murdered women were prostitutes.
It is also worth noting that we appear to be looking at a decline in the murder of women over this time period, which of course disappears when we add the 6 victims of the Whitechapel Murderer.
But I will be following the trends in earlier and later years as soon as able. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2453
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 2:51 pm: |
|
Again thanks so much for all this remarkable source material.You are a champion AP-no question!
Natalie |
Scott Nelson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
|
A.P. is this right for 1888 - Bowles, Clarke, Postami, E. Smith, A. Smith, Newman, Bartlett, Thames Mystery, Brown and Mylett? That should be ten murders, not including those attributed to the WM. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2529
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 4:52 pm: |
|
Thank you, Natalie, your words much appreciated.
Scott, yes you are right.
Thanks for that.
You are better at finding murders than me. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4994
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 5:19 pm: |
|
Yes, it's interesting stuff, AP.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the figures into numbers of murders by lunatics.
Robert |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2530
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
|
Good thought, Robert.
I shall get to it as soon as I am sober, but from my memory, I'd say just about all of them. |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2532
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 4:53 pm: |
|
Caz has often berated my good self for being unable to supply a domestic murder in which savage mutilation has been used, so although I feel deep sorrow for the victim, I was very pleased to meet her:
'A true NARRATIVE Of the Proceedings at the Sessions-house IN THE OLD-BAYLY, At a Sessions there held On April 25, and 26. 1677.
Where Nine persons (Six men and Three women) were Condemn'd to die.
With a particular Relation of the Young man at Enfield, and his Brother and Sister's Tryal and Condemnation; who most barbarously abused his Sweetheart by cutting off one of her Lips, putting out one of her Eyes, slashing her Cheeks, stabbing her in several places, and other Inhumane Cruelties.
To which is added, a true Account of the Bloody Murther in the Hay-market, where a Coachman lately kill'd his wife with a fire-fork.'
I do know this is not LVP, but it is domestic murder accompanied by vicious mutilation, and the search has just started.
More to come. |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 881
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 3:37 am: |
|
I think this may be a red-herring, AP.
There had never been anything like the Ripper's killing spree (or at least recognised as such). In my view that, and serial killing since, is in part at least a result of the pressures and alienation inherent in urban living after the industrial revolution.
Before c1800 in the UK even the largest towns were not much bigger than a reasonale sized village today. Even London gave easy access to countryside and the sort of "Dickensian" slums associated with late victorian Britain did not exist - there were poorer areas true, but of a different nature (Southwark in Shakespeare's day).
I do not find it inconceivable that domestic killings involving mutilation might have sprung up fully formed (like Athena from Zeus' head) in the 1880s, just as Jack did - or even inspired (if that is the right word) by his example. Your example from the 1670s indicates that it COULD happen at any time.
200 years later, the East End was teeming with humanity, and was a melting pot for people drawn from many different areas an ethnic and cultural backgrounds, bringing with them customs, habits, beliefs, hatreds, feuds, memories and ways previously unknown in Britain. Pole rubbed shoulders with Jew; Russian and Slav with German. Some came from areas where law and order were practically unknown, where violence and ruthless action were the norm. Some of the peoples involved were volatile emotionally; perhaps disturbed mentally by their experiences.
Who can say how this affected some sensitive individuals. It might explain Jack's emergence - if a Kosminski-type - and equally, why brutality, sadism and mutilation might enter into a domestic murder, just as much as it did into the Ripper's work on the streets.
Just some thoughts - your work AP, as always, is admirable and illuminating.
Phil |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2535
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 1:31 pm: |
|
Can't argue with you there, Phil, but I think the thrust of my efforts here is to show that some of the crimes attributed to Jack may well have been nasty domestic murders, and not the work of a serial killer.
Caz and others have sort of maintained that the vicious mutilations associated with Jack's crimes do not really figure in domestic murders.
Well, I aim to prove 'em wrong.
Your post has much to think on, and I thank you for the kind words. |
Phil Hill
Chief Inspector
Username: Phil
Post Number: 888
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 2:47 pm: |
|
I recognise and fully support your aim, AP. As you know, I think you are on exactly the right lines in questioning the Stride killing, and for me that has also brought into question the MJK murder.
Keep up the good work and more power to your elbow.
Phil |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2540
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 5:23 pm: |
|
Thanks Phil
and you'll be pleased to hear that I have found some exceptional material recently in this regard, which I will be posting as soon as I have thawed it out.
It's been in the freezer a long time.
As a person who has lived in the LVP for the last two years I can honestly tell you that I do not view the killings of Tabram, Stride or Kelly as being unusual, or the work of a serial killer. |
