| Author |
Message |
    
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1971
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:38 pm: | 
|
Bell Foundry, Whitechapel |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1972
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
|
Annie Chapman and a stranger in Hanbury Street |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1973
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:52 pm: |
|
Mary Kelly |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1974
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:59 pm: |
|
This,of Mary Kelly was composed of a composite of the picture of her in the Illustrated Police News drawing made up it is said of descriptions of her by her friends-its in Donald Rumbelows book and in the drawing she looks pretty heavily built with a heavy fringe etc-not all that fetching really.The other is from her death scene where all we have is the outline of her bones..
Natalie
ps I reposted the Annie Chapman one because for some reason it wont show up on the thread anymore! |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4465
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 4:18 pm: |
|
These are super, Natalie. Taking the two new ones, I love the bells, all gleaming and pristine. The Mary Kelly picture makes her look very attractive, and (this isn't meant as a criticism) can I detect some 60s make-up there? Great stuff, anyway. Let's hope your Hanbury St painting stays on this time!
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1975
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 4:39 pm: |
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Thanks Robert-glad you like the yard of the Foundry!No,not 60"s just an attempt to blur the stuff taken from the death photo --- |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2129
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 5:31 pm: |
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Natalie
Superb stuff.
But surely in the Mear’s Foundry painting that is Thomas behind the bars in the window loudly screaming for his lost inheritance?
I wonder whether you can hear Lord Grimthorpe’s Big Ben chime from Broadmoor… well perhaps on a quiet night, and I suspect Thomas probably had about 20,000 of them.
So like that is Thomas’ inheritance dumped down in the yard, all those big bells just laying there waiting for someone to pick them up and put them where they belong, and Thomas knows where they belong but his screams don’t penetrate the yard, his hands can’t reach the little bell above the door which could let him in.
The bells dumped in the yard are the boundary between Whitechapel Road and Fieldgate Street, they don’t exist, they are just top hats chucked into the ring by a load of Victorian gentlemen who would have liked to kill whores but never did… and there we spend our time and pleasure.
While really all we have to do is to go up to that back door and ring that little bell hanging there and when it opens say ‘Is Jack in?’
A very nice piece of art, Natalie. |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1977
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
|
Thanks AP.Your words are always so original!
Well I guess that very well maybe Thomas hammering out his fury about his incarceration and those who begot him!Its absolutely spot on that the bells are at that boundary point too!
Natalie |
Jane Coram
Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 437
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 6:37 pm: |
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Oh Wow Natalie,
I adore the portrait Mary Kelly....it's funny you know but I am sure that is the sort of expression she would have had.......I know our version are different in some respects.......but that expression is very similar......a sort of hardness and softness all mixed together in a combination that is tough and vulnerable all at once. I think she looks more thoughtful in your portrayal......but it is really amazingly well painted. You have captured her essence, which is about as much as we can do with what we had to work with. I love your style, anyway. My husband was passing the screen as I was looking just now and asked what they were and he was very impressed. As he is about the best artist I know, that is quite a tribute........because he always finds something wrong with mine, but he didn't find anything in yours he didn't like. I'm divorcing him next week! hee hee.
Seriously though I also love the bells in the foundry......totally touchable. You really are a very good artist. Keep them coming.........
Love you millions
Jane
xxxxx |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1978
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 7:10 pm: |
|
Jane,
I was about to go to bed when I saw your post.
It quite moved me because what you say is so true.A tough cookie Mary but with that vulnerability that needed a fix to face it all.
..and then no messing-Joe could bugger off and so could all her family by the sound of it!
I am delighted you liked my interpretion of her Jane because I thought yours was wonderful!
A thankyou to your husband too for taking the time to consider it.
Take care
Nats
xxxx |
Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 415
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 10:53 pm: |
|
Nats,
Absolutely brilliant!!
Can't say anything more!!
I count myself very privileged to count you as one of my best friends!
Lyn xxxx
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1410
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 3:09 am: |
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Hi Natalie,
I know nothing about art, i would have trouble drawing matchstick men.. however I was struck by your portrayal of Kelly, she looks the right age, her features would appear right by using deep imagination on the remains in room 13.
But I will make one comment.
Her hair does not ring true,if Mjk had hair of that colouring every one in the neighbourhood would know her instantly and Mrs Maxwell would have surely mentioned it in defending her statement to the police and at the inquest.
We have three descriptions made about Kelly which could reflect her hair colouring.
A] Ginger
B] Black Mary
C] fair as a lily.
But all of these seem to be depicting other observations ie. a] Quite possibily her likeness for ginger beer.
b] Her constant wearing of a black velvet jacket.
c] remarks on her being attractive.
We simply do not know her actual hair colouring.
But i do love that picture all the same it relays beauty, depicts a tough attitude and her eyes show emmense sadnes.
Well done.
Regards Richard. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 538
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 4:55 am: |
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Hi Nats.
Superb work. I echo Jane's sentiments above.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1979
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
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Lyn,Richard,Philip,
Many thanks for all your kind comments.I do appreciate you taking the trouble to let me know you like them.
Nats
xxxxx
Richard
I have thought a lot about your comments on the colour of Mary"s hair.
To me Mary represents the culmination of Jack the Ripper"s horrific attacks on these women*.So when it came to trying to reassemble something of her obliterated face I needed to convey some of his wreckage ...and so her hair,which can be seen as thick and long amidst all the bloodshed in the photos is symbolic I suppose.
I am glad you liked it otherwise,Richard.
*I know there is now debate that she was a ripper victim. |
Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 570
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 10:05 am: |
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Hi Natalie,
Love the new paintings, you should think about having prints made up. I like the bell foundry,theres a nice feeling of depth and this might seem strange but what makes the picture work so well for me is the detail in the brickwork which gives it that bit more realism.
I have to agree with Richard about Mary's hair, I always imagine Mary's hair as a more dark brown/red. When I use to paint and draw, the most important feature for me to get right would be the eyes and to me in Mary's case the eyes (to me)would be more important, but you captured her face (and the eyes) beautifully, because here is a young woman who looks like she has lived a long life and she is looking down reflecting on it.
All the best
Rob |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Hi Rob,
Thankyou for those comments Rob-I very much appreciate your thoughts on them and have a great regard for your brilliant camera work of places like the Woods Buildings and the Board School [ Bucks Row].Since I first saw them these images have reverberated in my mind and I would like to paint Woods Buildings again to glimpse that same ghostly footstep of the Ripper that you somehow managed to convey.
So yes-I am attentive to your reservation about Mary"s hair which corresponds with Richard"s remarks-who has also thought long and deep about Mary.
I can only say in defence that her hair must have been red that night.
But Thanks again for taking the trouble to reflect on these.
Natalie
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2535
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 9:38 am: |
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Nats!
Great to see your new stuff!
I too love the bell foundry one and Mary is wonderful too......as to the hair.....yes I agree that I saw it a tad less red but I love the eyes I Must I must I must get back to work if I can get myself out of these little books......up to the 3rd one now!!
Art teachers united eh?
Suzi xx |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1989
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:31 pm: |
|
Thanks Suzi-its great to know you liked them.Understand about the hair being a "tad too red" but...well sometimes I feel the picture made me do it-routines all up the spout today-no painting,no school,-feeling a tad bonkers actually]
Anyway your little books sound lovely!
Love and thanks
Nats
xxxx |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2537
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 3:29 am: |
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Hi Nats
I know what you mean by 'the pictures made me do it' I really do....thats the way I feel about all my stuff...Odd that isn't it....must take more water with it!!!
Keep going Nats!!!
Love
Suzi xxxxxx |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1990
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 4:05 am: |
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Thanks for your sweet words Suzi.I am glad you understand----sometimes they seem to have a real will of their own---and if you disobey you may as well throw it away!
Nats
xxxx |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4478
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 9:51 am: |
|
You have to go with it, Natalie. You might think the picture belongs to you, but it's the other way round.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1996
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 3:08 pm: |
|
Yes..like talking of "muses" ---in this case mine was a girl from another time and circumstance
who has caused quite a stir on these boards and elsewhere-
it would seem that not only did she have many different names but many faces too!
...so Robert,do you find yourself being "moved" when you write your poems?----if so--- when you write your ripper stuff who then the muse? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4482
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 3:25 pm: |
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Hi Natalie
I don't have a muse as such. It's just that sometimes I'm writing a poem and I think the poem will be saying something or other, but the poem seems to want to say something different. I think when that happens the best thing is to let the poem do what it wants to do.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1998
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 3:45 pm: |
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I follow you.Definitely some of your poems and some of AP"s take you peering down deep wells of subconscious desire that know neither right or wrong, morality or immorality.I have often found them instructive when thinking about the type of abberations that can affect a serial killer like Jack the ripper. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4484
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
|
Thanks Natalie. And your marvellous paintings have a life of their own.
Do you do them quickly like Van Gogh, or go over them again and again, or what?
There was an abstract painter who ended up with Alzheimer's - De Kunin? (sp?) I think he said once that he was at his best when he was not standing, but falling. When I heard that i thought I understood what he meant. Mind you, i'm not a painter.
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2000
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 4:40 pm: |
|
It depends on what has made me want to paint them.For example I was quite overtaken when doing that blue and red painting of Christchurch,Spitalfields.The perspective is all wrong and I painted it in a couple of hours but for me it still works because it was what I was experiencing in my head about the time and place and JtR.Whereas the Whitechapel bell foundry took me something like twenty or more hours to complete.Getting the duller bells that are dumped in the yard to work against the brighter bell on display there etc.Mary took about the same time.
Lots of things going on like lines of poems coming into my head -and a lovely line of Scott Fitzgerald,"her face was hard and lovely and pitiful"----and then suddenly it was happening
and I remembered a photograph/painting of another young and fated woman by the german artist Gerhard Richter of a series called "The Dead" of the Baader- Meinhoff gang.In it is one of his "photopaintings" of a beautiful young girl-the young Ulrike Meinfoff!And when I looked at it I realised she ever so slightly resembled the Illustrated Police drawing of Mary and I thought-try it ,same slightly heavy jawline etc.Both women had the grissliest of ends to their young lives and lived on the edge taking the kind of risks with their lives [and others]few would take.It saddened me though that they had to die the way they did and thats what I tried to convey. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4487
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
|
Well your paintings certainly work, Natalie. I think people should always paint what is true for them. Mind you, I make an exception with all those paintings of the Madonna and child. Those painters must have felt "this is the son of God. Better make him look different." So they paint a wise all-knowing head on a baby's shoulders. The result : some of the ugliest babies that have ever been painted. Ugh!
Robert |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 7:41 pm: |
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Natalie
Love the latest artwork - the Kelly portrait is stunning. It reminds me of something and I can't think what - it is bugging me. As soon as I saw it I thought "Aubrey Beardsley" but I have no idea why!
Great work as always
Chris |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 478
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 8:01 pm: |
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Dear Natalie...
Very nice work,Natalie....very nice. It must be rewarding to have talent like that.
HowBrown
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2003
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 8:19 am: |
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Dear Chris and Howie,
Thankyou!Your words are music to my ears!
Nats
xxxx |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2542
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
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oooops my muse has just come in.............time for bed I think have been trawling the 'streets' East End I hasten to add!!!
last week so allegedly am going to get to work! Suzi xx
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2009
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 10:00 am: |
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Looking forward to these Suzi!
Nats
xxxx |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2545
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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Hi Nats
This is my start on Hutch....think it may be too big but we'll see Is too big what a bummer!!!!!! ROB C COME IN PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Suzix |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2546
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 4:42 pm: |
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Just emailed you Rob!! HELP!
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2547
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 5:04 pm: |
|
 eeerk is this going to work???
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2548
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 5:06 pm: |
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Ooooooh God sorry Rob have been fiddling about here God knows what I did but this is a sort of idea of how it looks...this is my Hutch
Cheers
Suzi
x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2549
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
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 getting too clever for my own good here dont quite know what Im doing tho!!
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4502
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 6:24 pm: |
|
Well it's looking good so far, Suzi. He looks intense and yet at the same time a bit detached.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2552
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 6:43 pm: |
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Hi Robert
'Intense and yet a bit detatched' sums up how I feel about George I think.
Thanks for that,as ever I value your opnion.
Suzix |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2012
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 4:07 am: |
|
You have a brilliant gift for drawing Suzi!
Sensistively felt and ambiguous....he could be "The man himself..." or a complete innocent this "mystery man"!
Nats
xxxx
last night at the C&D I showed Caz and Rob the two last paintings I did ie Mary and The Bell Foundry.Both remarked on the fact that "in the flesh" the girl"s hair is a much more natural
shade of red. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2553
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 6:29 am: |
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Nats
Thanks!!!!! Would love to see them too,God this stuff is strangely draining tho isnt it?Must try to make it to the next C and D
Love Suzixxxxxxxxxxxx |
Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 572
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 8:47 am: |
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Hi Suzy,
Sorry I didn't get back to you, I was at the Whitechapel Society (I've got dozens of witnesses!). Anyway glad you managed it in the the end. It's looking good so far.
Hi Natalie,
Nice to see you last night and thanks for showing your paintings to me and Caz. For those who think Natalies paintings are great from looking at them on the boards, they are even better when you see them in person. And a note about Natalie's painting of Mary Kelly. The hair in the actual painting is more of an orange colour than the red in the image posted and looks a lot more natural and just brilliant.
Rob |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2555
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 8:54 am: |
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Thanks Rob
So far....I think this is as far as he's going........may have to do some more c/o of the old clour photocopier
Thanks again
Suzix |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2556
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 8:56 am: |
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Failing that the COLOUR one!!!!!!!
eeeeeek
Suzix |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2558
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 9:31 am: |
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Nats
When we're talking about this ,and these things taking over I think you know what I mean,they have a sort of power that drives you on or tells you to stop,hopefully not at the same time....but that little Hutch drawing is so small,and in many ways inconsequential but something told me to draw it! eeeeeek!!
I know you know what I mean
Suzixx
|
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 404
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
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Suzi !!!
I was surfing lae last night and saw this. Fairly creeps me out! That expression in the eyes and the little smile......shivers.
Thanks for ruining my peaceful night's sleep!
Mags
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2559
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
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Oh God! sorry Mags!!!!
Would like to say take a Hutch smile but if he smiled I think he may be worse!!!! Sorry again!!
LOL
Suzixxxxxxxxx |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2560
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 1:06 pm: |
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Right have spent the afternoon Marying but think they may be toooooo big again oh well here we go Not working! am losing the will to live here
Suzixxxx |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 2561
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 1:19 pm: |
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Its getting worse Rob C stand by
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 574
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 2:07 pm: |
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Here you go Suzi, great artwork as always
 |
