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George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 60
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 3:24 pm: | 
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Here we are then. It is a little spooky Fry has clearly used what appears to be wrapped around them in the mortuary shots as their living clothing. I think it is possible Stride's is just a blanket, isn't it, rather than a dress?
And here's Annie. I was trying to think who she looks just like here. Something by Reubens? Nope. Mary of Orange? Nope. Got it - Queen Anne! I wonder if it was subconcious?
Hope you get to see these OK!
PHILIP
x
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 61
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 3:35 pm: |
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Just a thought, Jane - how many shots do you have of Eddowes at Golden Lane? I definitely have 4 - the face profile, pre-autopsy shot, full-length (this one is sometimes hard to come by) and 3/4 length. There is another one full-length which has not been published for a century, which I personally think is a touched-up version of the full-length photo. I would suggest you contact Robert McLoughlin for help (he who has posted on the murder sites art thread) as he is the most likely person to have excellent quality shots due to his book - he could also possibly help on the clearest copy you will find of the MJK shot. I know Stewart Evans also has a blown-up photo of MJK's face from the shot, but as you would expect - it is a bit of a mess!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 43
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 5:36 pm: |
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Hi Philip,
Thanks so much. They disturbed me a bit, not sure why, I can see where he's coming from, but they are very 'stark'. Interesting style though. Maybe not so wierd that they were the only two, because they are the best reference shots. He probably didn't feel he had enough to risk the others. Totally sympathize.
I would be grateful for any shots of Catharine that are different. I've got the one, lying flat in the coffin, but not much good for reconstruction, the one propped against the wall and the three quarters face one. Are there any others. Grateful for anything. I have finished them and they are ready to post. I'll risk putting them up tomorrow. Polly I think is about the best we can get with what we've got, but I'm still a bit worried about Catharine. I think people might have preconceived ideas about what she looks like and not like my interpretation. Have to risk it though I suppose.
Definitely bed now. Had enough for one day!
Jane
xxxxx
Love you all! |
George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 65
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 6:31 pm: |
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Hi Jane. I suppose you have to unmat her hair and put a nose tip on her, which will probably make her very different. Which propped-up shot do you have? There is a clear shot to the waist, and there is also a full-length shot where you can see her foot bent underneath her and the blanket they propped her onto - these are 2 different images to the best of my knowledge. They certainly look it in comparison to each other. I agree - the coffin shot gives you very little to work with. I suspect the shots above look so stark because not only are they little more than monotone sketches, but they have only half restored life to them as they are too familiar in essence to the mortuary shots.
I would imagine it was very difficult to do MAN due to the angle of the shot and its poor quality.
When I know what one it is you are missing, I will post up an enlargement of the head - or will CE be a full-length? Don't you feel good knowing you are giving these women humanity again?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1836
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 4:49 am: |
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Hilip-
With the Annie one.....I can see the Queen Anne likeness but am also put in mind of one of the Rembrandt self portraits! Sorry Annie but I can see it!
Suzi |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 45
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 5:52 am: |
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Hi all,
Having slept on it, I think that those illlustrations remind me of Victorian wood cuts, in which case they're very clever It's enormously difficult to use such economy of line to achieve a result. It gives a great deal of freedom to the picture, something I've never been able to master.
Hi Philip,
You're right about the fact that the artist has used the mortuary shots as a solid basis for the work, and this might be why the pictures are so stark. But having said that, they perhaps do convey better the feeling of 'chill' that is naturally associated with the case.
I find them quite compelling in a certain way and keep looking going back to them. It's fascinating to see how different artist's view the same subject.
I'm going to post up Polly now, but I'm putting it in a different post. Not to get my ratings up so that I don't have to make the tea, but because I've got to excuse myself a bit before I stick it up!
Jane
xxxxx |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 46
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 6:40 am: |
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Hi me again,
Here's Polly. I'm afraid that for daft reasons that I won't go into I'll have to post some of the pics in black and white for a while, but if any registered members would like me to e-mail a colour shot just to satisfy their curiosity, I would be more than glad to do it.
Polly was difficult to do, because the only shots I had to work from were the silly little cream one, which was so hideously unfalttering and the mortuary shot which was the wrong angle. However I the description of her says that she had small delicate features, which is why I've tried to keep her mouth and nose quite small. We know she was fairly plump and I think the overall shape of her face is about right and that she looked ten years younger than her age. From her life history, I get the feeling )and this is purely personal) that she was quite a wilful and capable woman - not a pushover I suppose you might say. Even though she had a drink problem, she still kept bouncing back. It will be interesting to see what others think about her.
The best I can say about this pic is that it is a resemblance of her overall colouring and form and hopefully reflects her character.
If anyone has any other pics that might help to get a more accurate likeness I would love to see them.
Here goes, tin helmet at the ready
 |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 47
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 6:48 am: |
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Sorry,
I've just noticed some flaws that didn't show up on the original. The brightness and contrast seems to go a bit mental when I post them, must be something to do with colour match between systems. There's a black square on her dress, she is having a very bad hair day, and some of the edges look very harsh, you'll have to squint a bit!!! or have a stiff brandy, which will probably have the same effect. The good thing is I wouldn't have noticed otherwise so I can correct it for the finished pic.
I'm going to post Catharine now, ouch! I've been really worried about posting this one, but I know you won't bash be about too much. If you don't like it, I'll have another go, but I've restarted her about five times already and it comes out the same every time, so I think I might have to live with it.
Jane |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3868
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 6:54 am: |
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Jane, that's marvellous - a picture of determination, alertness and good humour.
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3869
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 6:57 am: |
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What's wrong with her hair? |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 48
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:03 am: |
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Here's Catharine,
I am going to have to try and justify myself on this one I think, because I have a feeling that people might have a preconception of what Catherine looked like and it's nothing like this.
I kept going back to what JtR did to her face. there must have been something about it that made him do it. I know there have been lots of theories about leaving clues to his ID etc., but someone posted that they thought it reminded them of a clown's makeup. The mutilations might seem to suggest that to me at least. I think that Catharine had rather a quirky but very sweet face. Looking at her descendants I have to say that I can see that is a possibility, because they have really lovely, kind faces, which have a great warmth and an endearing quality.
The mortuary photos confused me, because the one full length against the wall looks nothing like the three quarter face one, which is totally puzzling as obviously they were taken at the same time, although I did wonder if one was pre and one post mortem, because the hair seems to have been let down on one whereas it is up on the other. I have a horrible feeling that they may have used her hair as an anchor to keep the body upright in the full length shot, which left me cold.
Anyway here she is.
love Jane
xxxxxx
 |
Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 49
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:08 am: |
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Lost some of the contrast again, sorry, but I daren' t twiddle too much, I think you can see
enough to get the idea. If you check back to the pic of her Grandaughter? (The black and white photo with the child in front) I can see some resemblance. I did this before I saw that so it couldn't have influenced me and it did make me think that I was going in the right direction at least.
I'm digging a foxhole and putting on my helmet as we speak.
love Jane
xxxxxx |
George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 75
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:09 am: |
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Y'know, Jane - I'm not sure what I was expecting with Polly but from what you've had to work on I don't think you could do anything better than this. I can definitely see traces of the person you see in the mortuary shot here, and she DOES look like a 43 year old who looks 33!
An aside - I have read the APPALING Pamela Ball book 'A Psychic Investigation Into Jack The Ripper' and, though I don't believe a word of it and it's a waste of time, she does say she always thought Nicholls was somewhat of the character you describe; that she was an individual who stood up for her rights and those of her sisterhood - bit of a Prostitute Union Leader, if you will.
Yeah - her hair is fine.
But how clean are her thighs?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 50
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:14 am: |
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Hi Philip,
Thanks for the offer of pics. I think I've got the same ones as you by the sound of it, so I'll have to wing it.
I'm just having a look at Dufield's Yard, so anything you have on that I'd be grateful for, if you want to pop it on the crime scene thread.
Jane |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3870
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:14 am: |
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Jane, lovely picture of Kate. Some sadness there, but the quizzical look of someone always ready with a joke.
My only worry is she looks a bit old.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 76
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:22 am: |
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Beautiful (Eddowes). It's not what I was expecting at all, but she is so alive. I can actually hear her SPEAKING looking at this one (but then I'm getting an Irish accent, so maybe that is the leprechauns in my head).
I just tried an experiment, Jane. Not pleasant but conclusive. I put my fingers over the corners of her smile and tip of her nose and I could then clearly see the body in the mortuary shots, so I guess you have struck gold again!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2809
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:33 am: |
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Hi Jane,
I don't know, what you mean about preconceptions, because it is quite hard to have opinions on a face that is disfigured in some way.
I think you have succeeded well, as usual, and I find it hard to believe that someone really can argue against it. I absolutely think you have captured the main important, and very special features of her face and I do feel she is recognizable.
One must remember that we are used to see her with her hair wet and let out, which most certainly was not how she wore it during the day, so I'd say your portrait works very well. Since Eddowes is my personal "favourite" among the JtR victims, I found your interpretation of her very much to my satisfaction. I also think the features of her modern relatives are visible in there.
I think you can be proud of that you have helped giving her her personality and dignity back. Even from the morgue photos it is evident that she has very special features, that I somehow find noble in a strange manner, and as you say, quite kind. We also know that she was a very jolly woman in spite of her hardships, and i think that is evident in your portrait as well.
I don't know what you mean regarding the morgue shots. Those are most certainly taken on the same occasion and after the authopsy (besides that one of very poor quality where she is lying down and is not stitched-up; I think you are being fooled by the lighting and the different angles.
yes, a lock of her hair is actually pinned to the wall in order to hold her op, and you can also see it on the face close-up. The same was done with Stride.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 13, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 51
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:40 am: |
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Thanks for the e-mail Glen, you're a darling.
I did actually have the jawline higher to start with, but when I saw the orange pic I saw that they had put more jowls on her and I twiddled.
My husband always tells me off for twiddling, he says he's going to tie my hands behind my back (no nothing like that!) I'll wait until I get some more posts if anyone is kind enough to put comments up and then put a corrected one up later.
I had real problems judging how aged she might have looked. One mortuary photo, the full lenth one against the wall, actually makes her look even older and the other three quarters one younger, which bemused me somewhat. I'll sleep on it and try softening her a little as see what happens. I suppose I might be being influenced by the fact that she was rather world worn and I sort of get the feeling that she was very tired of life but trying to put a brave face on it. Not talking psychic or anything here, just an artists feeling.
I'll have a think about it and see what happens. Definitely going to sort the jawline out though!
Thanks to everyone for all your help. Back to work!
love Jane
xxxxx |
Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 52
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:47 am: |
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Hi again Glen,
Your post came up as I was posting mine so they sort of crossed. Definitely the lighting I think, it gives a totally different look and feel.She's always been my favourite. I get so choked up when I read about her, because as you so she was such a jolly little soul and tried very hard to make the best of it. My heart really goes out to her. I do think she was kind as well and her relationship with Kelly was very touching. He must have been totally devestated when she was killed.
Thanks for your kind words
best wishes
Jane
xxxxx |
Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 53
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
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Hi Philip
You can make your own blooming tea now!
I'm not going to get my picture of Dutfield's Yard now am I?
am I?
please?
love Jane
xxxxxx |
George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 79
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 8:11 am: |
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Jane - I posted it 10 minutes ago and the uploader crashed so I'm going to do it again.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1424
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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Lovely and again so realistic Jane of Polly yes I can see her like that and its delightful to see her smiling!She was literate Polly and I think Philip is right that she was quite militant in her own way[and rather a handful when it came to dealing with her father!
I myself havent quite visualised Kate as you have,to me her face was a little more elfin than you describe it but you may be right.I have only
seen the mortuary shots which as others say have her head pinned back etc.In a recent oil painting I have done of Kate and Jack,which I havent posted yet,the predominant problem was releasing her skin from the effect of her head being so pinned back that it made her features too taut and pinched I think.So maybe when you can manouvre
the features free from this you get what you have produced.Any way its a really cute portrait of her and reveals her slightly impish personality very appealingly.
Natalie |
George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 85
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
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I would advise everyone to do what I did and cover up the tip of her nose and the smile at the corner of her mouth and then I reckon you'll see what I did; something very close to the mortuary shots, but alive.
Elfin, eh? I wonder if Bjork is descended from CE?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 60
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 1:19 pm: |
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Hi Natalie,
I never thought of that! It gave her an artificial face lift. That might account for the different look between each of the mortuary shots which confused me. I think we're on the same wave length about her character though, I think that she had what you might describe as an impish, cheeky face, in as much as she was quite whimsical and if not delicate as such at least sensitive. Your drawing of Mary Kelly I think was spot on, so when I see your painting I will probably agree with you totally on your view of Catharine. Glen suggested to raise the chin a little towards the back, which would refine the face quite a lot anyway. I'll have a little twiddle.
Please post your painting as soon as you can, can't wait!
love Jane |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2813
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
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Hutch,
"I would advise everyone to do what I did and cover up the tip of her nose and the smile at the corner of her mouth and then I reckon you'll see what I did; something very close to the mortuary shots, but alive."
Yes, that was one of the first things I did when I saw the picture, and you're absolutely right -- it works.
Jane!
Yes, my reasons for suggesting raising the back part of the jawbone, were several (although very slightly, it should not be exaggerated):
-- looking at the mortuary photos her face seems quite oval and also if we look at her body, that poor little woman were practically skin and bone and very thin.
Don't touch the chin at the front, though!
Besides that, it's a lovely picture.
Finally, once again the interesting question...:
How on Earth are you going to handle Mary Kelly... 
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 13, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 68
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 8:01 am: |
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Hi Glen,
I've just taken two whopping great pain killers (yeah drugs and booze - can't beat it!) so forgive me If I become temporarily dyslexic.
I have a lovely drawing of Mary that Natalie did, which she kindly said I could use for inspiration, because I thought it is a pretty good likeness. Obviously can't really tell what her eyes were like, but I have a partial reconstruction I found on the board some time ago which I really believe has got the overall feel of her.
Let you into a secret, not talking psychic or anything here, definitely not, but I think all artists have an intuition about whether things feel right or not. I'm also a synesthete ( spelt wrong I think) but I see words and people sometimes numbers as colours. It's a medical condition that a lot of artistic and creative people have funnily enough. My daughter benefits from it as well, more so than I do. When I look at a person, I see them as a colour which is associated with their personality, or at least how I view their personalities. When I do portraits of anyone, I use their colour to get the right feel for them, (hopefully). I also see people on the message board as colours as well. See the drugs are working already!
I am quite sure you're right about the chin on Catharine. I had it thinner to start with, and wehn I saw the orange pic, I went against my gut feeling and altered it because that has a slight droop to it. Smacked wrist. I won't do that again.
I'm going to try Catharine again from a different angle and only go with the flow, be interesting to see how she comes out.
Jane
xxxxxxx
One x over the limit! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2822
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 8:48 am: |
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Hi Jane,
"I have a lovely drawing of Mary that Natalie did, which she kindly said I could use for inspiration, because I thought it is a pretty good likeness. Obviously can't really tell what her eyes were like, but I have a partial reconstruction I found on the board some time ago which I really believe has got the overall feel of her."
Well, I have no doubts about that Nats' reconstruction was a good one -- and I believe it looked good -- but fact remains that it would have been easier if we only had a bare skull, because then we could bring in one of those scientific experts that use skulls as their reference. But in Mary Jane Kelly's case the nasty remaining pieces of flesh are in the way (my God, what a subject this is...). So I'd say there is a problem here.
Actually I have a very strong belief in psychic powers and the supernatural and one of my best friends is a psychic medium, but I don't know if all artist necessarily have those developed abilities. I was a painting artist myself for nearly twenty years and my intuition is probably as good as an old wooden log.
I agree on, though, that it would be a great ability to have access to as a portrait artist, where psychology and sensitivity is an important factor. I envy both you and your daughter.
I am not saying this to discourage you, though; I was only curious about how you would tackle it. I also believe there exists at least two paper illustration drawings of her (one I think is from the Illustrated Police News, connected to the Miller's Court murder) and one face sketch where she is called "Black Mary" (can't remember where to find this, though -- think I saw it in a book in connection with its enclosed map over the area). I have no idea how accurate these are, though, and whether or not they are only based on pure imagination.
So please give it a go anyway. I would love to see the result as usual -- it would be very exciting. The result would probably be as close as we would ever get anyway, judging from your other efforts so far.
"See the drugs are working already!"
I thought it was the sherry.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
(Message edited by Glenna on January 14, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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George Hutchinson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Philip
Post Number: 110
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 9:34 am: |
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Jane -
I have been jpegging your artwork to a friend of mine who is into the Ripper and he is staggered by it and want me to send you his congratulations (Glenn - he's the guy that sent me the video of Durward Street in 1989).
I found out something this morning - Walter Sickert was born 110 years to the day before me! I just had my copy of '150 Suspects' arrive through the post and it could be the most handy reference guide since Ross Strachan's 'Handbook'.
Jane - so you see people as colours, eh? I take it you and I are a mix of yellow and red.
"The future's bright - the future's Orange."
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 70
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 10:06 am: |
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Hi Philip,
I'm sort of amber actually, seriously. You're a very bright electric blue. I won't let on about anyone elses colours unless they ask - or ask for it!.
Just in case you don't get over to the crime scene thread, I'm finishing Mary's room and have asked a couple of questions. Would love your input, although you'll probably just get cheeky, try and restrain yourself for once and give me a sensible answer!
love Jane
 |
Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 10:27 am: |
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Hi Glen,
I have never really believed that psychic ability is supernatural anyway, but people often get silly about things and turn something which is a very natural ability into goodness knows what.
I am worried about Mary, but I sort of have a feeling about her and won' t know until I do a bit more on it. About half way through I suppose. You're dead right though, macabre as it sounds it's much harder than it would have been. Jack wanted to obliterate her features and perhaps he did a better job of it than even he anticipated. That's a really horrible thought. wish I hadn't thought it. It's almost as if he has not just taken her life, but removed all trace of her real persona from history. The ancient Egyptians believed that preserving the likeness was so important to the survival of the soul (no getting metaphysical here or anything) but just the thought that it is now almost impossible to see what she actually did look like. At least with the others we can see their essence in some form.
Totally determined now to get a good likeness no matter what!
Very strange post this, I'll blame it on the drugs.......
Love Jane
Waiting for the men in white coats to come and cart me off! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2827
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:01 am: |
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Hi Jane,
Don't get me wrong. I do of course believe in the spirit world, but psychic abilities as such is something that I consider completely natural as well, and I believe we all have those more or les, but some are more sensitive than others. I hardly consider it a supernatural gift.
Yes, I'd say Mary kelly's murderer made a clear attempt to depersonalize her deliberately. What bothers me is, that this mostly points to a murderer with personal relations to the victims... well, this is not the thread for it.
Good luck, Jane. I can't wait!
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
P.S. Any white coats yet?
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1433
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:13 am: |
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Hi Glenn,
Although I would like to think that the drawing I did resembled Mary I dont suppose it did and noone else knows either and I have no idea whether it did or not.But I did do quite a few sketches to try to "reconstruct"her face which was nigh impossible given what remained of it.I am glad I did it though because we can so easily forget she had a face,poor Mary,and it was good to see something recognisably human emerge from what remained ,so I am glad if the drawing may help Jane---but hey others have done some very impressive "reconstructions" too which are still on the MJK threads!
And then there is also Suzi"s lovely work,whose collages of glorious colours of a flayed Mary and a sinisterly lit Millers Court have quite different beauty and poetry to them.
Otherwise I totally agree with you in all you have said about Jane"s work which has really thrilled me these past days- in fact I look forward myself each day to her next" masterpiece".
But Hey Glenn,why not let us see some of your work?I would love to see what you do especially if it involves modern technology like Jane"s does!
Best Natalie
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Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:26 am: |
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Hi Natalie,
Quite right to bring up Suzi's work, it gives me a real buzz every time I see it, I believe she has started painting again. Can't wait to see them. I love her style.
Yes Glen, cough up, what have you got tucked away then? About time you let us see some.
Jane
xxxx |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:29 am: |
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Hi Natalie,
I am indeed impressed by both your and Suzi's work.
I really should get back and check those out again. It's been awhile - I remember that some of them were really atmospheric.
"But Hey Glenn,why not let us see some of your work?I would love to see what you do especially if it involves modern technology like Jane"s does!"
I don't do art or illustrations in the way Jane does it -- on the computer. No way I could handle Photoshop the way Jane does. I only use my computer for graphic book design and clean up photos for printing etc.
My art stuff are ordinary oil paintings.
Unfortunately I have almost none left, and I have been stupid enough not to photograph most of them before I sold them. But I'll see if I can find some photos in my drawers somewhere. It is not Ripper related stuff, though.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
|
Hi Glenn, couldnt you post just one or two maybe?
The thing is that many of your written posts help me to "reconstruct pictures in my head"---you can feel the atmosphere in them and visualise those times better because you sort of "paint with words" Berner Street ,Mitre Square whatever.So I think that if you have a talent in this way and since you yourself are highly trained in the subject of Art History and Pictorial Representation then why not do some oil paintings for the site?I bet the atmosphere in yours would be fantastic!
Natalie |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2829
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Hi Natalie,
I will try and see what I've got in my drawers; I believe one or two have been photographed and in such case I'll scan them and post them on a suitable off-Ripper thread. Just so that people don't think that I am just whistlin' dixie here.
Nah, Natalie, as a painter I am a true naturalist and a rather dry realist. I never do a painting based on memory or imagination; I either paint in front of the motive or plan it carefully from on location sketches or photos. So Ripper sites is out of the question. Besides, there are people that probably can do that better than me, and who are more familiar with that environment. My preferred subject is people anyway.
And I hardly have either time or money to paint these days.
But I'll see what I can find, and then you can judge for yourself.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 14, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2832
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 12:47 pm: |
|
Nats,
Thanks for the nice words, though.
Well, better start digging...
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1436
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 3:52 pm: |
|
Great Glenn! Nothing wrong or ordinary with realism !I love that myself,though I"m not so faithful to what the eye actually sees as that myself.Memory and an internal image from a visit together with a photograph or sketch tend to get fused and the outcome is not then so true to real life.But lots of Victorian painters like Whistler,John Singer Sargent,Manet
and definitely Courbet were realist painters werent they?So if you paint in a style similar to any of then it would be a very appropriate recording of that period of history!
Why dont you do a set of small portraits just head and shoulders say
of some of the characters from the ripper drama
- a reconstruction in oils of the drawing of Abberline we have?
Dotted about in the newspapers from 1888 onwards there are loads of sketches of some of the characters we read about and if one of us could do a set of these in oils I think it would be
splendid.It depends what time you have between your writing though-it is time consuming but its great fun once you start on these characters.There are even some really good photos-dont know why Anderson comes to mind in his uniform but you couldnt have a more straightforward Victorian photo portrait than that one.I think translated to oils,even just his head and shoulders alongside the likes of Macnaghten,Warren,Monro and co it could really be a very special gallery of portraits.
Nats |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2835
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 5:55 pm: |
|
Actually, Natalie.
Not a bad idea. Not at all. Would be fun.
Hmmm... if I only had the time...
But well... Who knows? Maybe you have started something here... or else I am just so inspired by Jane's and others contributions that I can actually feel the effort worthwhile to pick up the brushes again...
I'll give it some thought, maybe even enough in order to put my rather fanatic naturalistic aesthetic rules a la Zola on the shelf for a while.
Interesting suggestions, Nats. Very tempting.
All the best
G. Andersson,
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 14, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1441
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 6:12 pm: |
|
Great ---I really do think it would be fantastic Glenn-
I can think of noone else who could do justice
to these characters as much as I would imagine you could!
Best
Natalie |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2836
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 6:20 pm: |
|
Well... you haven't seen any of my stuff yet, Natalie.... Thanks anyway.
My style is somewhat close to the one you see on A Fishermans Widow (or A Hopeless Dawn)
I'll give the idea some very serious thought, believe me, although the artwork and craftmanship I've seen on the Boards so far from several individuals make me feel like a hopeless amateur....
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1858
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 6:15 am: |
|
Hi all
Well thanks for the kind words am severely flattered..have posted..rather oddly some of the book stuff on Little Book of Horrors thread on Gen Disc
Love your Kate Jane although the elveness (!) ...I know there is a sort of pooky quality about her face which is damned hard to get....still trying here too......Love em tho Suzi x
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1443
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 6:23 am: |
|
Glenn,painting of all the Arts is so subjective.Its a case of "one man"s meat is anothers poison".I personally know many people-including my daughter who also studied Art History
more recently and who also loves those sort of paintings and has a collection of such prints.For me though I prefer the looser brushwork of say Manet-one of my favourite painters-but its so much to do with personal preference it really doesnt matter a jot what style you use as long as its a real and true interpretation by yourself.
I think I understand your hesitation because it carries quite some risk of being misinterpreted but thats too bad Glenn -your posts show what guts you have-to be able to write so eloquently in a second language -WOW! what a skill!And about such cotraversial subject matter.
As regards those head and sahoulder portraits,over here we have what are called Oil painting boards and they are much cheaper than canvass.They are a bit unyielding but if you paint with the type of precision you write of above they should do the job perfectly!
Can"t wait Glenn!
Natsxx |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2839
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:15 am: |
|
Hi Natalie,
Yes, art is subjective indeed. The impressionist way of painting is quite popular among the large public and also a popular method for artists (I would say most painting artists either use broad and loose brush strokes or swift to the complete opposite and goes for the abstract), while real detailed realism is not that common. That is why Jane's stuff -- for example -- blew me away in sheer surprise.
I think it's really -- as you imply -- a matter of who you are as a person and which method fits your personality. I am very much a living contradiction myself; on the other hand sensitive for atmosphere and a romantic but also very pedantic and stiff. And I think when it comes to art I only feel comfortable with exploring the latter features. I love to compete with and challenge reality and to create a photographic illusion (although I do not always succeed), and I love to use the sharp very thin brushes in a methodical manner. I have tried using loose brush strokes but it is just not me. Perhaps I see painting more as a craftmanship rather than an emotional expression. So I very much see what you mean about it all comes down to who you are.
I did find a couple of photos, actually; I just have to develop the negatives and scan them first before posting. I don't want to post them on this thread, though, because I don't want to intrude anymore about this on a Ripper-related thread and on Jane's work. Maybe i can find some other spot on the Creative Writing and Expressions threads -- maybe where you and Suzi posted yours?
Yes, we have those canvas boards here too, and they are cheaper. My main concern is my lack of time, though. But I will consider your idea; if not least, it could be fun as a practice for my own benefits.
Thanks again for your kind and loving words, Natalie.
Now, back to Jane's stuff. I wonder if we actually will see a reconstruction of Mary Kelly's face... now, there is a challenge...
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
(Message edited by Glenna on January 15, 2005)
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1860
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 8:44 am: |
|
Go for it Glenn!!!
Would love to see em!!!!!
Cheers
Suzix |
Jane
Detective Sergeant
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 89
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:20 am: |
|
Now listen here Glen! That's me being forceful!
If I can pluck up courage to post here, then so can you. I was totally terrified posting here the first time, alright I had to get drunk to do it, but I did it. I can tell from the way you write that your stuff is going to be very good indeed. So please let's see them. As for all that nonesense about finding somewhere else to post them, I'll be totally upset if you do, because I probably won't be able to find them!
It doesn't really matter if they are not Ripper related just this once I'm sure. Maybe it will inspire you to do some Ripper stuff and you will be encouraging others to get their brushes out and give us loads of really great JtR pics and poems ( or short stories)
Natalie's right, I think your style would be great for some portraits of any one involved in the case, I can just tell, the way you talk about using certain kinds of brushes etc.,
Please, let's see them soon. Time? What's Time?
lots of love
Jane
xxxxx |
Maria Giordano
Inspector
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 281
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 9:47 am: |
|
As someone who is hopelessly hamfisted and can't draw a line, I say Bravo to all you artists and PLEASE do post your work!
Pictures speak to an entirely different part of our brains than words do and being able to see gives me,at least,an entirely new and different dimension to think about this whole world with. You all just help us SO much!
Mags
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2840
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 10:03 am: |
|
OK OK, Jane.
Don't hit me, please. 
I just didn't want to take the attention away from your stuff here.
I thought I was being considerate... 
Just don't blame me if anybody accuses me of wanting to invade the thread with my own non-Ripper related things. That is my main concern; not people's opinion of my art -- that I can handle.
I'll see if I get some time to do some portraits of people in the Ripper context, but I am awfully stressed at the moment, so for now I'll just post a couple of old paintings, if you absolutely insist. So OK, just this once...
I have to develop the negatives first, though, since I have no developed photos ready, and then scan them -- it's Saturday now, so Monday evening the earliest. So hold on to your hat -- if you have any.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 2842
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 10:31 am: |
|
"Pictures speak to an entirely different part of our brains than words do and being able to see gives me,at least,an entirely new and different dimension to think about this whole world with."
Indeed, Mags. Indeed.
And for future Ripper research I'd say this approach might be more valuable than we have given it credit for.
Because as you say, pictures pulls other strings inside of us where words cannot touch us. Just look at the old photos of Eastenders posted by Mr. Hutchinson on a couple of threads, for example. Not to mention the art contributions by some people here. I believe this angle has been somewhat slightly over-looked before.
All the best
G. Andersson, author
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3893
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:12 am: |
|
Hi Glenn
I'm a realist too - I know I can't paint. 
I'd love to see your pictures, so let's hope you can post those.
I loved the "somewhat slightly." Are you a David Bowie fan?
Robert |
|
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