| Author |
Message |
    
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 10:09 pm: | 
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Can anyone tell me the source for the theory that Freddie Mills (a British champion boxer) was this killer. All the literature I have come across claims the killer was a security guard who committed suicide as the net closed in. However I have heard rumours from two independent sources that it was Mills. I'm not convinced by this theory but am curious to know the source. |
Monty
Chief Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 743
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |
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Stephen,
Thats the story I heard...a Security guard from Acton.
Ive also heard that he was an Met Super.
But Ive never heard that Freddie Mills was involved !
Where did you read that ??
Monty
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AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 861
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 1:14 pm: |
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You'll find that the full story of the Freddie Mills connection to this case was posted in a couple of press cuttings on the old boards. Perhaps someone will be kind enough to repost them?
My understanding is also that the final suspect was a police officer who died from natural causes shortly after the murders ceased and that the investigating force felt it better to let sleeping policemen sleep, so to speak. |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 610
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 2:17 pm: |
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Hi Stephen:
Check out the following URL of the thread on these boards where we previously discussed the Jack the Stripper case. Therein you will find a discussion of research by writer reformed south London gangster Jimmy Tippet, who was promoting Freddie Mills as the likeliest suspect in the case. Possibly Tippet is the writer you have been searching for, Stephen?
All the best
Chris |
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 5:07 pm: |
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Many thanks for the Freddie Mills info Chris and AP Wolf. My sources for the story were police via a former underworld member. Mill's is also mentioned on a website dedicated to UK murders. It just names him, but does not elaborate. As I understand it Mill's committed suicide because his club in Soho was unsuccessful. The police reports on his death are available for inspection at the PRO at Kew including reports on the rumour that he may have been murdered. The police decided there was no foundation to these rumours.
Thanks once again everyone,
Regards,
Stephen |
Becka Seide
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 11:44 am: |
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This isn't really about a spacific case but if any one has any good info on forensic science or some good sites could you please let me know.}} |
Jack Ruby
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 3:52 pm: |
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Hi there, now how weird is this story ?
My friends grandfather is or rather was the said Security Guard to which the murders are attributed. |
Dilly
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2004 - 4:23 pm: |
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I believe a book has been written regarding the identy of "Jack the Stripper". The title is "Big John", who was an ex policeman. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 593
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 3:52 pm: |
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Hi Dilly
Do you Have the name of an author?
All The Best
Gary |
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 2:29 pm: |
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The book you're after Gary is Found Naked and Dead by Brian McConnell, published by New English Library 1974 |
David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 8:50 pm: |
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As a boy I went to the Hogarth School in Chiswick. Our playing fields were alongside Dukes Meadows (known locally as 'gobblers gulch'. One morning we were prevented from using the playing field due to one of the bodies having been found there. Some years later, in 1972, I was engaged upon an appeal case. While interviewing the appellant, who was serving life for muder, in the top-security wing of Parkhurst prison, he confided to me that he had, in 1965 been interviewed by John Du-Rose who was then investigating the Nudes case. Du-Rose was interested in an ex-colleague of the appellant. The ex-colleagues name was indeed John and he lived in Fulham. I already had an interest in the Nudes case so I checked my list of suicides, for the relevant period. Sure enough my mans name was there. The odd thing was that his inquest was held 'in camera'. First reports were that he had committed suicide. His death certificate, however, states that he died from a fractured skull whilst being restrained in a 'general melee'. Verdict - Accidental death. Odd that since such injuries, causing death as it did, would normally have attracted a charge of Manslaughter - unless of course he was being arrested at the time and the whole thing was covered-up. Some years later I met the senior officer from Shepherds Bush Police Station. I mentioned Johns name to him. He almost had apoplexy and warned me to stay quiet. He is dead now and cant nick me. He wasn't a security guard.
Regards
David
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David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 8:53 pm: |
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Freddies 'suicide' was odd too. He apparently shot himself in the back of the head with a .22 before placing the weapon in the back seat of the car in which he was sitting.
Regards
David
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Bob Hinton
Inspector
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 198
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 7:05 am: |
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I mention the connection between Freddie Mills and the stripper case in my book 'From Hell'.
Speaking to a retired police officer who was involved in both cases he told me that Du Rose knew the identity of the killer (JTS) and had him arrested on a firearms charge, hoping that the magistrates would remand in custody, he appearing in person at the magistrates court to ask for this. The magistrates didn't take the hint and released the man on bail. My informant then approached him when he was walking away from court and marked his card. He was told the police knew he was the killer and that it was just a matter of time before they got him. The man then went home and committed suicide.
As for Freddie Mills he was rather like Druitt. His body was found at the time they were looking for the killer ergo he must be the killer.
His death was put down as suicide, however the police knew full well that he had been murdered by members of the Kray gang as he had not paid back a large amount of money he had borrowed to set up a night club.
The weapon used in the killing was quite unusual as it was a .22 short rifle, not the more common .22 long. Mills had borrowed it from a friend who ran a fun fair shooting gallery for protection when he knew his life was in danger.
Bob |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 647
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 3:21 pm: |
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Hi Bob and David
Is the law in the U.K. similar to that here in the U.S.A. regarding libel? In other words does the right to sue for libel die along with the deceased?
All The Best
Gary
All The Best
Gary |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 358
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 8:11 pm: |
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Did the police decide to let the public think that Freddie committed suicide, rather than point to the Krays' gang as the actual killers, because they wanted to protect his good name and reputation? I don't see why they couldn't reveal their suspicions that it was a homicide, even if they didn't want to name anyone connected to Reg and Ronnie Kray.
Vastly puzzled,
Jeff |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 359
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 8:13 pm: |
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Did the police decide to let the public think that Freddie committed suicide, rather than point to the Krays' gang as the actual killers, because they wanted to protect his good name and reputation? I don't see why they couldn't reveal their suspicions that it was a homicide, even if they didn't want to name anyone connected to Reg and Ronnie Kray.
Vastly puzzled,
Jeff |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 360
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 8:18 pm: |
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My apologies - my computer is not functioning correctly.
Sorry for the double response.
Jeff |
Stephen Leece
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, May 29, 2004 - 6:06 pm: |
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I have a quote from 'The Underworld' by Duncan Campbell, BBC Books 1994 page 82:
"Originally the death (Mills') was treated as murder and it was suggested that Ronnie Kray had had him killed because he owed the twins money and becasue the killing would establish Ronnie as being untouchable. But this was speculation and after the owner of the rifle was traced and said he had loaned the boxer the gun so that he could go to a fancy-dress party as a cowboy it was accepted that Mills had died by his own hand."
It is because of this certainty of suicide that people began to look for reasons for his sucide- JTS fitted perfectly once it was established the crimes had ceased with Mills' death. Other rumours include that he was gay and about to face a charge of cottaging; he had enormous debts that he could not repay (this at least is definitely true); he was depressed after the suicide of his friend Michael Holliday (a singer)- I've time for this rumour because Buster Edwards committed suicide in 1995 for similar reasons. Another rumour was he was about to be charged for running a call-girl racket. Notice these are all rumours including the link with the Kray brothers and not a scrap of documentary evidence has been offered to support them. Tony van den Berg suggested in 1993 that Mills was murdered by Chinese Triads attempting to break into the London club scene. (Not having read his book I can't comment on this theory). It is also worthy to note that Mills is not the only member of the Soho underworld/ club scene linked to the JTS murders- another villain Ginger Marks, associate and alleged victim of the Krays, has been proposed as the killer.
I just thought I'd tell you all of this and muddy the waters somewhat!
Regards,
Stephen
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 367
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 2:47 pm: |
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Well, thanks for explaining it Stephen.
Jeff |
David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 5:58 pm: |
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Yes our libel law is the same - you cannot, in law libel a dead person. A libel case can only be instituted by the libelled person. - Thank God.
Regards
David
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 648
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 4:38 pm: |
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Hi David
Thanks for the information. I assumed the laws had to be the same, however there seems to be a reluctance to name the 'Nudes' killer. I imagine that naming the killer would ruffle a few feathers amongst the ranks of the police detectives.
All The Best
Gary
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David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 7:02 pm: |
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Hello Gary'
It seems to be a standard procedure not to name a dead person who may have been suspected of murder. This makes DuRose's description, of his alleged suspect even more suspicious. He names 'Big John' and tells us that he lived in South London, had access to the Heron Trading Estate, drove a small white van, and committed suicide just after the last murder. He then tells us that, in order to spare the killers family further pain he will not name him. They apparantly did not know of his activities. However if they had ever read DuRose, and this was all published in the Sunday dreadfuls, they would surely have put 2 and 2 together. DuRoses description had to be a red-herring. For anyone interested my suspect 'died' on the 14th Feb 1965.
Regards
David
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 368
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 8:08 pm: |
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There is another thought that crosses my mind, but it has no real foundation in fact (as far as I have read). Say Freddie had been bumped off by members of the Kray gang and the gang had bribed some police officers not to say anything but to let it be considered a suspiciously timed suicide.
In all of the investigation into the Krays, was any evidence ever found of them penetrating Scotland Yard or any other British police force?
Jeff |
David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 7:24 pm: |
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Hi Jeffrey, I doubt very much if the Krays had anyone on the inside. Whereas it is probable that the police had informants inside the Kray org. They were continually under investigation. At the time the Metropolitan police was riddled with corruption and it is possible that the twins 'bunged' the local plod from their 'insurance' activities but very doubtful that they could have bought-off a murder-rap.They may well have been involved in FM's strange 'suicide'.
Mills was first mentioned as a candidate for JTS because his death took place at the right sort of time. Also it had been suggested that the victims would have trusted Mills because of his personality status. Incidentally they were not strangled. My information is that they were asphyxiated, during the act of fellatio. Some of the bodies were kept for varying periods of time during which they were buggered.
Regards
David
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 375
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 10:23 pm: |
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Hi David,
Thank you for the explanation. Now my question is that if the poor victims were asphyxiated in that manner they did not do the obvious to teach the b---tard the lesson of his life (bite down hard). I work at a state agency that helps victims of crime, and years ago I had a case where a female victim was sexually molested, and did precisely that - and that perpetrator was caught in great agony. JTS must have really paralyzed these poor women with fear to get them not to do the obvious to the creep.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 03, 2004 - 8:51 pm: |
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Yes Jeff. I has always puzzled me a bit. My eyes water at the very thought. There is also some evidence that they were used in a similar manner after death. Several of them had had their front teeth removed after death for just that purpose. I am not sure if all of these details were made public at the time.
Regards
David
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Paul C
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 6:37 pm: |
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Although obviously not in the same way, I have been attacked by people on a couple of occaisions (when you work for the DSS you become a target for certain types of people) and can state that the first reaction to being attacked is to freeze up and be almost unable to move. Is it not then likely that this is what happened to the poor women killed by JTS, and is why they didn't attempt to bite him? BTW, the third time I was attacked I did manage to fight back, only to be charged with using unneccessary force (a knee in the groin, followed by a punch in the face, followed by legging it so fast it should have got me a gold medal). Presumably I was supposed to just stand there and let the guy kill me so that he wouldn't get let off. |
David Andersen
Sergeant
Username: Davida
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 4:09 pm: |
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He may well have taken them by suprise. If we assume that the victim was in his car giving him his jollies. On the other hand his dimensions may have been such that they choked quite quickly. Even so it is not an experiment that I would care to conduct. Yes I do fully accept that people do often freeze when attacked. On the other hand we dont really know if he ever did get bitten.
Regards
David
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1850
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 3:53 am: |
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Guys,
Got back from a dismal game of cricket last night.
Toast and milk, turned the TV on and scanned through.
Got to Living channel and guess whose dark (almost) chiselled features greeted me?
Thats right, Mr Paul Beggs. Talking to a Geezer in the Shakespear Pub, Victoria. Monty suddenly became interested. I mean, its not often you see God on the telly.....and I used to frequent the pub also.
He was taking part in a programme called Psychic Detective (a some kind of Superhero) in which, a Psychic does some detective work. Novel eh?
This week was about one of the victims of Jack The Stripper and her son she gave away.
Paul and Psychic Detective also visited an Electricty sub station. Where Psychic Detective grabbed the wall and stated they were being watched. Cut to Paul who went all pastey (not that I could tell much) and rolled his eyes upwards, as if looking for someone. God perhaps.
I cannot wait to see the next edition of the Rip.
Nice one Paul,
Monty
...and I said: "My name is 'Sue!' How do you do!
Now you're gonna die!!"
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2930
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2005 - 2:57 pm: |
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Is this Jeff's progrmme?
oh five words!!
"You know I'm not gonna diss you on the Internet
Cause my momma taught me better than that."
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Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 225
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 9:33 am: |
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Hi Monty and Jeni
And yes this was the second episode of a series of six i produced last year.
I'm currently working on a Guy Fawkes special which is far more re-construction heavy.
However I think the Hannah Tailford story was the most interesting. Largely because its the only psychic show I've worked on were I was able to confirm information Tony supplied through research. Information that he could not have known through any book or via internet.
Anyway am glad someone saw it. I'm hoping to use Paul again perphaps we'll sell our Diary idea. At least I'm keeping him out of trouble and gainfully employed.
Did leave a message to tell people it was on last week but I'm afraid I've been to busy to watch myself...will hopefully catch up over the weekend.
I did speak to Stephen Sloman a few days ago and we are continuing to search for the other three adopted children Tony spoke about.
Catch you all soon.
Jeff |
Jeff Leahy
Inspector
Username: Jeffl
Post Number: 227
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 6:55 am: |
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Hi Monty and all
If any of you get in from the pub tonight and switch on Living TV at 10.30. You'll discover this weeks episode is about the death or Murder (aligedly)of Brian Jones the founder of the rolling stones.
For those of you that might be fans of the Rolling Stones or John Lennon this should be worth a watch. I managed to get away with more history and re-con.
Trevor Hobley's theories about the unusual berrial of the body are very interesting.
Unfortunatly the most interesting stuff had to be cut for legal reasons.
Did Brian Jones suspect the Stones money , alegedly, was being invested in Vietnam arms?
Unfortunately you just cant go around saying things like that can you.
Hope you enjoy the programme if you can get access.
Yours Jeff |
