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Andrew Spallek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 123
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:33 pm: | 
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This killing spree in New Orleans in the early 1900's obviously has nothing to do with Jack the Ripper, but it is instructive reading. http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/axeman/index.html
We are reminded that the Whitechapel killer was not as unique as we would like to think in his ability to be brazen, to escape detection and capture, and to taunt police. I was especially taken by the one witness who descibed the axeman as bring almost supernatutally light on his feet in bounding his way to escape (Spring-Heeled Jack?).
We tend to think JTR the lone example of this type of killer in his era. Clearly there were many others.
Andy
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 278
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 7:13 am: |
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Hi Andy
It's an interesting case that I first read about a long time ago. I fear that we will never know if the man killed in California was the true killer or whether justice was served in it's own unique way in this instance.
All The Best
Gary |
Andrew Spallek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 132
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 1:23 pm: |
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Gary,
I was surprised that there seems to be so much confusion about the basic details of the case, which happened less than 100 years ago! How would one go about trying to straighten out the facts? I'm only a few hundred miles from New Orleans (although I don't have the time to run down there in person in the foreseeable future). I do know someone (though not well) who is rather high up in the New Orleans Police Department.
Andy
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 279
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 2:07 pm: |
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Hi Andy
I suspect that a bit of urban legend and myth are mixed in with the facts of this case. My best guess would be that, like the ripper, a lot of second and third hand reporting has gone into the various versions handed down over the years.
I would love to get ahold of the actual newspaper and police reports and compare those with the story we see repeated today. The Times-Picayune(sp?) may have the actual records on-line. If your friend could get copies of the original police reports I bet we would be onto something.
Just as an aside my wife was born and raised in a little town about 45 miles west of New Orleans. Her father, who has long since passed away, was a local political figure of sorts with plenty of connections. If you know New Orleans, you know how important political connections are in getting things done around The Big Easy.
To get even more off topic I will relate the following story. Her mother had ten brothers and sisters and her second cousin was Jesse Marcel of Roswell New Mexico U.F.O. fame. Before anyone asks, she has spoken to his son and yes she asked him about the alleged crash. His son said he was shown some material that his father said they couldn't explain. That is all she ever got out of him.
I relate that without giving my own opinion on the crash and the idea of alien bodies being found.
All The Best
Gary |
Andrew Spallek
Detective Sergeant
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 3:08 pm: |
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Hey Gary,
Interesting about your wife being related to Marcel. In the small amount of study I've done on Roswell I've come to the conclusion that what's going on is conflated stories and memories of accidents involving radar deflecting apparatus tethered to high altitude balloons and high altitude parachute testing using dummies, with perhaps some recollections of aircraft crashes also involved. I think Jesse had a piece of the radar deflecting apparatus.
Andy
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 280
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 7:45 pm: |
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Hi Andy
I believe you are correct and I believe the same thing. I can't explain silly putty, but that doesn't mean it comes from outer space.
If I had to speculate, I do believe we are not alone in the Universe. That doesn't mean we are being visited. But then again- never say never.
All The Best
Gary |
Stanley D. Reid
Police Constable
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 8:18 pm: |
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Hi all
As per Michael Newton's "The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes", the story of the "suspect" killed in California is totally apocryphal. It's believed to have been made up by a man who wrote a book in the 1950s. An extensive search of newspaper and police records have shown that no man by the name Joseph Mumfre died in Califinia between 1905 and 2000! I fell for this same story when I wrote about this crime for a 2002 magazine article. This case is so polluted with falsehoods I'm beginning to wonder if anything about it is true.
Have a goodie,
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 605
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 8:52 pm: |
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Hi Stan,
Are you referring to the account of the Axeman case, entitled as "The Axeman Wore Wings", in a 1952 book about murders in New Orleans? If that is the case, I wonder how much credence one can give the other accounts of other crimes in that book.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Police Constable
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 9
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 13, 2005 - 11:58 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
The book in question is "Murder in New Orleans" by Robert Tallant. I'm not sure what the chapter about the Axeman was titled.
As an aside, my pet theory as to why this murderer stopped killing is because he died in the flu pandemic of the era.
Best regards,
Stan |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 75
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
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P.S.
To give Tallant the benefit of the doubt, he didn't necessarily make up the story, he may have just been passing the information along from another source.
Also, has anyone read the novel based on this case? I believe it's called "The Axeman's Jazz".
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 617
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 8:10 pm: |
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Hi Stanley,
A number of years ago a friend of mine was writing a piece about Theo Durrant, the San Francisco "Church Steeple" killer of 1895. There is a useful anthology book in the "U.S. Cities" Series called "SAN FRANCISCO MURDERS", and two essays in it deal with Durrant. One of the essays said that a figure in the case died in 1910 or 1911 in Chicago. I was asked to check this out because the Chicago sources did not mention the obituary of this figure. It turned out he died in Chico, a small town in California. I think many such errors pop up in accounts of crimes, so Tallant may have just passed on misinformation he heard (just as you suggest).
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 77
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 9:18 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
If I recall correctly, the Durrant case was the basis of Graysmith's book about JTR in which he claimed Durrant's innocence. He then proceeded to put the blame on Durrant's pastor and claimed this guy was also the Ripper.
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 619
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 6:57 pm: |
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Hi Stan,
I never read Graysmith's book, but yes, that was the theory. The theory that Durrant was blamed for the crime of Rev. Dr. George Gibson was spread as a rumor in the period of the crimes and trials, and appeal, and execution (1895 - 1898). However, a recent book on Durrant's sister, the once famous dancer Maud Allen, and the crazy political morality trial of Noel Pemberton Billing in 1918 London paints a different picture from what Mr. Graysmith tried to do. The book, Philip Hoare's OSCAR WILDE'S LAST STAND (New York: Arcade Press, 1998) shows how the shadow of Theo Durrant's crimes hung over his sister (and hurt her in the trial of her enemy Noel Pemberton Billing). Apparently Maude knew that Theo behaved irratically because he was sexually molested by his mother. Maude knew he was guilty of the two murders of Blanche
Lamont and Minnie Williams.
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 83
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 9:46 pm: |
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Hi Jeff
Thanks for that information. I did hire Graysmith's book from the library and read it. It's food for thought even if I don't buy the theory and I know I have plenty of company on that. All I'd read on the Durrant case before that was in case study collection type books. Graysmith is a great illustrator at any rate.
Stan |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 622
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 01, 2005 - 1:39 pm: |
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Hi Stan,
I almost bought Graysmith's book four years ago, but from what I heard of it I thought it would not be of much use.
Jeff |
Stanley D. Reid
Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 328
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 09, 2005 - 4:02 pm: |
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Hi all,
I wonder if any of the Axeman records were lost on the hurricane. It could be a repeat of the City of London JTR records that were destroyed in the blitz. There are more important things for them to worry about now but it would be a shame.
Stan |
Mark McGlone
Sergeant
Username: Kidtwist
Post Number: 12
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:01 pm: |
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Speaking of the Theo Durrant case, there are two excellent books on it that I know of. Sympathy for the Devil by Virginia McConnell is a recent one. There's an old one called The Girl in the Belfry by Lenore Glen Offord and Joseph Henry Jackson. Both highly recommended, especially McConnell's.
From McConnell's book you certainly can understand why the pastor, Reverend J. George Gibson, came under suspicioun. He was a real weirdo. He apparently disliked women--though they seemed to like him--and had a bizarre list of rules he followed. The Examiner's report on his testimony at Durrant's trial includes the line, "It's not Mr. Gibson's fault that he is an absurd person."
Who knows, maybe he was involved in those two murders, though I doubt it. I have not the slightest suspicion that he had anything to do with the JTR crimes.
(Message edited by kidtwist on September 10, 2005) |
Jay Gauthreaux
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 12:09 pm: |
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I found your website by accident, and I'm very intrigued with the subject about the axeman. Fifteen years ago, my brother and I, being history buffs, decided to research in detail the story behind the axeman and the grizzly murders. We used as a reference the book, "Gumbo Ya-Ya", copyright, 1945. Chapter 4 pages 80-89. We started with the Maggio murders which was the most hideous and gruesome on May 23, 1918.
After the murders were committed, the killer with chalk in hand,on a street corner a block away wrote, "Mrs. Maggio will sit up tonight just like Mrs. Toney". Method used in writing, sound familar? My brother and I went to the crime scene. Today it looks totally different than what the scene looked like in the paper. The location was/is in a bad neighborhood. We through copies of autopsies on the Maggios, Joseph Romano, Chas. Cortimiglia and daughter and finally Mike Pepitone, all Axeman's victims.
We even checked back as far as 1908 for the first victims, Mr. and Mrs. Cruti, who were chopped at random, but survived. To make a long story short, We speculated in a movie script we wrote that as of yet, to be made into a movie, Joseph Momfre, or Mumphrey, was having an affair with Mrs. Pepitone. As to why she shot him on the left coast? Possibly he broke off the relationship? Another thing to ponder,between the Scaimbra killings of 1912, and the Maggio killings, Momfre, or Mumphrey was in prison.
Well, I'll close for now. Don't won't to bore you with all the details.
Thanks,
Jay Gauthreaux |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 641
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 6:15 pm: |
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Hi Jay,
I've read in several sources that no one has been able to find any record that the 1911/12 murders ever happened.
In another source, the statement was made that Mumfre might never have existed. They claimed that death records and newspaper articles were thoroughly searched and that there was no such person killed in California in 1920 or any year anywhere close to it.
Best wishes,
Stan |
Jay Gauthreaux
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 03, 2005 - 2:35 pm: |
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Stan:
About Monfre, when he was gunned down in L.A.,he
was shot by "Mrs. Esther Albino", which we all know she was Mrs. Mike Pepitone. My guess either
Monfre used another name, or the person doing the looking up in the files didn't want to be bothered with.
Anthony Sciambra was gunned down inside his residence on May 15-16th, 1912 in the lower ninth ward. His wife who was also shot, later died of her wounds.In the article it mentioned at least twice, the name MONFRE. He paid a non to pleasent visit earlier a day or two before.
The Sciambras had a guard dog who before the shooting, mysteriously disappeared.
All of the victims had their place of business/residence on corners. Also, the letters signed by JTR and by the Axeman to the Times-Picayune were sent from "HELL".
For Jeff, the book is called, "Ready to Hang", with a chapter entitled, "The Axeman wore Wings".
Thanks again,
Jay |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 651
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 6:28 pm: |
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Hi Jay,
As you say, the Sciambra attack was a shooting not an axing.
Regarding The Axeman's murder by Mrs. Pepitone, your argument is with William Kingman and Michael Newton in The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes, not me. In that 2004 publication, the story is called "a complete fabrication".
Best regards,
Stan |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 652
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 05, 2005 - 7:18 pm: |
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P.S.
In 2002, I wrote a magazine article about this case in which I repeated the California story. I'm sort of sorry now that I did. |
Jay Gauthreaux
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 3:58 pm: |
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Hey Stan:
Wasn't trying to pick a fight with you at all. I don't have the book by Messrs,Kingman and Newton. Can't really say what kind of research if any,for the book to say in calling the story as you stated, "a complete fabrication".
About fifteen-sixteen years ago, my brother under the name of Shields, wrote a piece for the
"Detective Cases" magazine about the Axeman. Perhaps you've seen it? It's unfortunate, that the case of the Axeman has slipped into legend
through the years.
With the Scaimbra case,we felt it was connected to the Axeman based on our research. Other than the shooting,too much coinsidence(sic) with the other particulars of the case not to tie it in.Why a gun, and not an axe? Who's to say?
What was the name of your piece? Do you have a copy? Please let me know.
Thanks,
Jay |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 679
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 7:02 pm: |
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Hi Jay,
It was in The America's Most Wanted News Magazine that used to be affiliated with the TV program. The Axeman was one in my World's Most Wanted series. Specifically he was one of the Ten Most Wanted for 1910-1919. The segment on the Axeman was probably about 300 words and I'll have to look around to see if I have a copy.
Stan |
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