| Author |
Message |
    
Rachel Kirby
Police Constable
Username: Rachel
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 6:40 pm: | 
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An item on the BBC website today states that a pair of leggings belonging to Sutcliffe, and kept by a retired policeman, are being investigated for traces of DNA. No further info was given - so why now?
Link to article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2795575.stm |
Christopher T George
Police Constable
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 2:57 pm: |
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Hi Rachel:
The answer to this is quite simple. No doubt Sutcliffe's leggings are to be handed over to Patricia Cornwell and her forensic team just as they tested Walter Sickert's coveralls for DNA. Stay tuned! 
All the best
Chris  |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Police Constable
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 4:36 am: |
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Hello CTG,
The mention of Peter Sutcliffe brings to mind an incident that happened in the early eighties.
Sue and I owned a small garden furniture and landscape business in Thorpe-le-Soken. We were and still are situated on the main road that connects Clacton-on-Sea with the busy port of Harwich in Essex. One day a large blue delivery vehicle stopped outside our yard and the driver asked for directions to Harwich. I can still describe him today. Slight build, dark hair, small goatee beard, but most of all creepy stairy eyes. I noticed the vehicle had a Yorkshire address. When the Yorkshire Ripper was caught and his picture was flashed on screen Sue and I both said that looks like the truck driver who stopped one day. I rang the local Police (one of the local inspectors was a good customer of ours)and told them. A few days later they contacted us to say that Peter Sutcliffe was a truck driver for a company that make plumbing material and was known to have made deliveries in the Essex area.
If it wasn't him he must have double.
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Guy Hatton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 9:39 am: |
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At least he didn't try to run you down, as the late Mr. Gorman/Sickert claimed happened to him!
Regarding the so-called 'leggings': these are in fact a V-necked sweater which Sutcliffe was found to be wearing in an inverted manner at the time of his arrest (though for some reason, he did not have his clothes taken away for nearly two days). (Source: Michael Bilton: Wicked Beyond Belief, Harper Collins 2003). Quite why it should be necessary to use this item for DNA matching remains a mystery, however - as I understand it, Sutcliffe's DNA has already been tested in the Mary Gregson case, where he was shown not to have been responsible.
Cheers
Guy |
Gary Weathwerhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 10:26 am: |
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I will never forget the Yorkshire Ripper's response to his younger brother when he was asked why he did it? His reply to paraphrase was-
"Just cleaning up the streets our lad
-just cleaning up the streets"
I wonder if the original Ripper'S response would have been a whole lot different?
Speaking of Patricia Cornwell, the index to her
book soes not contain a single mention of Joseph
Gorman Sickert.
The last information I have on Joseph Gorman Sickert was that he could trace
his family background in such a way that he was
heir to the throne of England.
Best Regards
GARY |
Marianne St.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 1:39 pm: |
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Gary,
"Just cleaning up the streets our lad - just cleaning up the streets"
forgive me, this is my first post ever on the board, and perhaps I'm asking a silly question: but do you really think this was the motive, as well in the Yorkshire as in the original Ripper's case?
regards,
- and hello to all the other ripperologists on this board! -
Marianne
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Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 3:03 pm: |
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Marianne
welcome to the message boards-
I mentioed the Yorkshire Rippers' comment because I do believe that ol' Jack himself would have felt the same way about killing prostitutes. KIlling a prostitute for these men would have been similar to the way you and I would feel about swatting a gnat.
A sexual serial killer seems to be born either without a conscience or with a greatly diminished conscience. If he is then presented with life situations such as a weak or absent father figure and in some cases an openly promiscuous mother, the stage seems to be set for an abnormal fantasy life which links sexuality to violence. In other words sexual gratification comes from violent fantasy fulfillment.
I am an attorney here in the U.S. (although I was born and raised in Canada) and criminal law is not my specialty; however we are all exposed to it in school and the State Bar will appoint us to defend criminal cases in which the Defendant is indigent. Due to my interest in sexual serial murder I have taken the opportunity to probe into the background of these individuals. They show no remorse because their absent or diminished conscience isn't capable of normal human empathy. These people are outwordly normal members of society. I have yet to hear or read of a case wherein the killer was obviously deranged and displayed his psycho-pathology outwardly. Jack the Ripper was likely to be similar to the Yorkshire Ripper in that no-one would have had a clue as to his deviancy before he was caught.
BEST REGARDS
GARY |
David O'Flaherty
Sergeant
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 1:36 pm: |
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The BBC has a short article about MP Fabian Hamilton's request that Sutcliffe be moved back to prison from Broadmoor hospital.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2833589.stm
Dave |
Guy Hatton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 5:16 am: |
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It would also appear from this article in the Sun newspaper that Bilton is in error in describing the leggings as being fashioned from a sweater:
2-2003111055%2C00.html,http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003111055,00.html
(It would appear that the commas in this URL conflict with the board's formatting tags - you may need to copy the URL, starting from 'http...' by hand to make it work).
It is probably also worth pointing out that Bilton's claimed 'compelling' evidence that Sutcliffe was responsible for the murder of Fred Craven in Bingley in 1966 and the attack on taxi driver John Tomey in 1967 is at best flimsy. See Chapter 19 of Wicked Beyond Belief, and Keith Brannen's 'Other Victims' page at:
http://www.execulink.com/~kbrannen/otherv.htm
Cheers
Guy
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AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 5:25 pm: |
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Marianne
one should be very careful here, for what you discuss is a report from Sutcliffe's brother about what Sutcliffe said when confronted by that brother about his crimes. Now that brother would have an overwhelming desire to say something that just might possibly salvage his own reputation when faced with a brother who has actually sabotaged that indirectly by his totally anti-social and murderous behaviour. In such circumstances the Bible is a useful tool.
I personally believe his brothers comments to have been used to prop up his own disintegrated ego after the events unfolded. And I don't believe Peter Sutcliffe to have possessed the basic intelligence to have made that comment.
I have corresponded with Sutcliffe, and it was on the Winnie the Pooh level.
You may retort by saying if he was not intelligent then how did he manage to elude the police for so long?
The answer to that is that the police were on the Noddy and Big Ears level.
The entire investigation was a farce, and the least surprised person when he was arrested was Sutcliffe.
It should be patently obvious to anybody with a serious view into either case that neither murderers were 'cleaning up the streets' they were in fact making them very dirty, and that was their intention.
Your first post on the boards is welcomed. |
AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 10, 2003 - 5:35 pm: |
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Gary
I strongly suggest that you study the case of Richard Chase, the so-called 'Vampire of Sacramento' - available to you at the CrimeLibrary.com - before you go any further with your idea of a serial killer not looking and acting like a serial killer. For this dishevelled and obviously insane guy wandered the streets of Sacramento covered in blood for four long days dressed in a bright orange jacket murdering and mutilating children and women in broad daylight.
Just a tip. |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 7:28 pm: |
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AP
Thanks for the tip. I will check the Crime- Library on the "Vampire" It seems to me though that Chase approachd his victims with stealth. I would distinguish this case from the Ripper in that Jack the Ripper had to have gained the confidence of his victims before they led him off to their own doom. The same is true of sexual serial killers who have to inspire confidence in their victims before they would get into their vehicles or otherwise go along with them. Ted Bundy is a good example
Regarding your response to Marianne. It is interesting to know from your contacts with Sutcliffe that he was not capable of disembling about his crimes. This assumes that he is not playing the insane simpleton to serve his own ends.
Most serial killers seem to have above average intelligence levels and in some cases are geniusness.
As far as "cleaning up the streets" is concerned, These killers would have been making a statement that is incongrous to the average person but a flippant remark with some undertones of self justication to the killer himself.
Just some random thoughts.
Best Regards
Gary
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Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 11, 2003 - 7:43 pm: |
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AP
just got back from the Richard Chase site at Crimelibrary. I had forgotten that he shot at least some of his victims and then mutilated the corpses. He would check for unlocked doors and if he found one he considered this an invitation to go inside and suprise victims.
You don't need to gain the confidence of victims if your initial act is to shoot them !!
Best Regards
Gary
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AP Wolf
Sergeant
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 30
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 12, 2003 - 2:03 pm: |
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Quite right, Gary, but I fear we may have crossed our lines here somewhere.
My point being that it is perfectly possible for a complete and utter manaic who actually looks like a complete and utter maniac, covered in blood and wearing a brilliant orange jacket that helicopters could have used as a landing beacon, to wander the streets of a substantial suburban area of America in this century murdering and maiming folks for four very long days without let or hindrance from either the police or general populace.
Hence our Jack would have had an easier job.
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2089
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 08, 2005 - 5:47 pm: |
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It was reported in the UK press (admittedly tabloid!) yesterday that Sutcliffe has "lost the will to live" and has been on hunger strike for 10 days.
This is allegedly due to the fact that the last family member who still kept in contact with him, his brother, now wants nothing more to do with him |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2177
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 4:51 pm: |
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That's wonderful news.
I'll send him some diet coke. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4533
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 4:46 am: |
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I suppose if Sutcliffe dies, we can say that he was just cleaning up the prison.
Robert |
