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Message |
    
MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 48
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:13 pm: | 
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Why did John Parkes need to be "notified" 
Mike. |
Stephen Miller
Sergeant
Username: Knutmill
Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:27 pm: |
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Mark I think in Wilkes book Gordon Parry is quoted as saying WHW was sexually odd
all the best
steve
You can't argue with a sick mind
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 35
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, October 27, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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Mike- PC Ken Wallace used to drop in at Atkinson's garage during his beat, and Parkes's shift was late nights and Wallace just mentioned to him about the 'commotion' in Wolverton Street.
Stephen - you're right - Parry, when interviewed by Jonathan Goodman and Richard Whittington-Egan outside his (parry's) London home in 1966, did refer to Wallace as 'sexually odd' (It is mentioned in other WHW works as well).
Mark
(Message edited by Mark on October 27, 2005) |
MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 49
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 3:46 am: |
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Hi Alexandra,
You Wrote:
"If Wallace would have taken a taxi (and been innocent of the crime) and struck up a conversation with the driver concerning Menlove Gardens East, and the driver would have said that it didn't exist, Wallace could have returned home earlier and caught the murderer in the act."
Exactly. And if WHW was planning an alibi there's a very good reason to not take a taxi. Plus it would have been more expensive for what was a purely speculative jouney.
You Also Wrote:
"On the other hand, if Wallace was guilty, I think the cab driver COULD remember Wallace (establishing an alibi) - Wallace could bring up the name of 'Qualtrough' and Menlove Gardens, and even possibly give him a generous tip."
As I wrote above, if Wallace was scheming to create an alibi a Taxi driver does not make a good ally, in my opinion. And any "generous tip" would look suspicious.
Mike. |
MTR
Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 50
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 10:31 am: |
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Hi Alec,
I believe both Julia and William share a grave in Anfield Cemetary. Where the remains of a certain Mr. Maybrick can also be found nearby...
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~liverpoolcem/hist.html
Mike. |
Stephen Miller
Sergeant
Username: Knutmill
Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 12:20 pm: |
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Robert sent you an email as requested
thanks
steve
You can't argue with a sick mind
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Stephen Miller
Sergeant
Username: Knutmill
Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:09 pm: |
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Granger page 127 of Murphy's book mentions that Beattie stated the time of 7-30pm to Wallace for the appointment at Menlove Gardens East
all the best
steve
You can't argue with a sick mind
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Granger
Sergeant
Username: Granger
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, October 28, 2005 - 1:41 pm: |
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Steve.
So he does, and guess what, he says it earlier on page 24. I was looking at page 23 where Murphy quotes, what I thought was the actual telephone conversation between Qualtrough and Beattie.
Mustn't criticise these books too much, as God knows I couldn't begin to write up the Wallace case.
Still say Murphy should have included an index in his book.
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 36
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 3:15 pm: |
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In recent years WHW/Julia's grave was apparently vandalised. It was supposed to have been done by someone with a grudge against WHW being found not guilty. They should realise that at the same time, they are desecrating Julia's grave. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 4:11 pm: |
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One thing I find a bit strange is that WHW states in his diary that "Julia reminded me that it was our 15th wedding anniversary" - If he really was a devoted husband, wouldn't he have remembered the date? 
Mark R |
MTR
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 4:34 pm: |
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AFAIK, all we have of the diaries are selected quotes and paraphrased highlights. What happened to the originals ? Anyone know ?
Mike. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 4:58 pm: |
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They apparently 'disappeared' (after WHW death, you would presume). Where they are is a mystery. Could they still be out there somewhere?
Mark  |
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 788
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 5:10 pm: |
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Mark,
If he really was a devoted husband, wouldn't he have remembered the date?
I'm not sure about real life, but if husbands always remembered anniversaries one of the world's comedy writing staples would be gone forever.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Granger
Sergeant
Username: Granger
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 01, 2005 - 1:15 pm: |
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Where are the original diaries?
I read somewhere that they were acquired by the author W F Wyndham-Brown, and subsequently got destroyed??????????????
Has anyone read a fictional account of the Wallace murder, entitled 'Qualtrough' by Angus Hall? |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 39
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 2:28 pm: |
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I recently acquired a copy of THE TRIAL OF WHW by W.F. Wyndham-Brown. It does have some diary entries in it. I don't know if he acquired them though...or what became of them.
Mark |
Granger
Sergeant
Username: Granger
Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 03, 2005 - 2:02 pm: |
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I am surprised that in 1931 forensic science wasn't up to matching blood types. It seems that they didn't even test the blood speck found on the lavatory pan, or the blood smear on the pound note found in the jar. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 40
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 4:50 am: |
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Interesting (but curious) story: In the Evening Express (Friday 23rd January 1931) the report states that 'the black tabby cat returned yesterday.' By all accounts WHW was supposed to have been stroking the cat post-murder, yet this is stated. I know you don't believe everything that is printed in newspapers, but it is still strange.
Mark R
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MTR
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 65
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 5:32 am: |
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With all the police around, both in and out of the house most cats (in my experience) would scarper. The Wallace's cat might have gone AWOL after William was driven away the night of the murder and then returned when the coast was clear. It might have found it's way into a neighbours house and been cooped up for a while (the Johnstone's perhaps ?). Wherever it was, it was probably watching the whole investigation - inbetween long naps.
Mike. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 41
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 8:15 am: |
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I think the Hussey book mentions the police apparently gave the three cans of milk (that Alan Close delivered) to the cat!
(Message edited by Mark on November 07, 2005)
Mark R
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Stephen Miller
Sergeant
Username: Knutmill
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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and why did they have a dog lash?
You can't argue with a sick mind
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Granger
Sergeant
Username: Granger
Post Number: 17
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 11:57 am: |
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Apparently, years after the murder, one of the detectives involved in the investigation was interviewed, and he said that at the time he was asked where the bottles of milk had gone that had been left by Alan Close. He said he had to admit that he had given the contents to the cat. He retorted that it was the only case he was involved in, where the evidence had been lapped up!! |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 42
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:17 am: |
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The only thing I can assume is that maybe they had a dog sometime before and kept the leash as an object of sentimentality.
Mark R
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MTR
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 68
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:27 am: |
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Has anybody reading this thread personally accessed the Wallace casefiles at Merseyside Police at any time since 1992 ? I'd be very interested to hear from you if so.
Mike. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 43
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 4:18 pm: |
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I recently contacted Merseyside Police concerning the Files. I was notified the cost for this would be £2000.
 
Mark R
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Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 837
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 6:17 pm: |
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Mark,
I recently contacted Merseyside Police concerning the Files. I was notified the cost for this would be £2000.
That much to look at the files or to have copies made? In any case it sounds exorbitant, but I suppose that is one way to keep the files closed de facto if not de jure.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 44
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 21, 2005 - 5:02 am: |
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Here is a point of fact: We are told that WHW (if he committed the crime) relied so much on the time factor, allowing him an "alibi" (I, like Dorothy L. Sayers, dislike the use of the word 'alibi' in this case). We are led to believe that Alan Close was actually late on the evening of the 20th January, and that he usually delivered milk in W.S. area some half-hour before. If this was the case, what would WHW's modus operandi have been?
Mark R
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Stephen Miller
Sergeant
Username: Knutmill
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 22, 2005 - 11:57 am: |
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Hi Mark in Murphy's book he creates the night of the murder having WHW running a bath before killing JW. creating the robbery scene beforehand is also possible.
But the important thing to consider is that WHW creates his own timeframe. It does not matter when he arrives at his appointment as long as the journey takes him long enough to distance himself from the murder scene.
He would know that the milk boy would be the last visitor so he would go about his business after he had delivered the milk and having set a few things up beforehand he takes as long as it takes.
Now another thing the only money missing from his house was Prudential money yet upstairs there was some money in a jar presumably belonging to WHW yet this did not go missing.
We presume from the blood clot in the toilet that the killer went upstairs but missed an obvious hiding place for money. Is it possible that wallace could not bring himself to steal his own money whilst disposing of the insurance money.
yo urs
steve
You can't argue with a sick mind
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 45
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 4:30 am: |
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Hi Stephen-
I'm not convinced that WHW (if it was him) took a bath. The bath (and the whole bathroom fittings and drainage)were checked and shown to have not been used. I just cannot see how the timeframe could have been adapted for an earlier time. It would look pretty susicious if WHW arrived very early for the appointment with RMQ.
There was no proof the killer ever went upstairs (the blood found on the water closet was deposited there some time (at least an hour - possibly more) after the killing, and was probably deposited there by one of the police or even MacFall himself.
Mark R
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MTR
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 69
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 4:47 am: |
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So it was "probably deposited there" by someone else, Mark ? "Probably" is a bit strong in this context and with no balance of proof, would you not agree ?
Mike. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 46
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, November 25, 2005 - 5:24 am: |
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No. Dr Coope and Dr Dible carried out over 100 tests concerning the blood clot, and the form/shape corresponded to a blood clot that would have to have been at least an hour old (when deposited). The amount of people who entered the bathroom post-murder was substantial - it could have been any of the police, MacFall, or even Wallace himself (unless of course, we assume it was there even BEFORE the murder occured and was nothing to do with the crime).
A funny thing concerning the blood clot - one source stated that when asked whether the police had taken a photograph of it on the water closet DS Moore stated "No" - yet there is a photograph of it in different publications.
(Message edited by Mark on November 25, 2005)
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 28, 2005 - 5:07 am: |
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In his intro to Goodman's THE KILLING OF JULIA WALLACE, Edgar Lustgarten writes; "You are for Wallace. Or against him. You are certain he was innocent. Or certain he was guilty. That, I think reflects ninety-nine percent of views. I, belong though, to the residual one per cent..."
I, like Lustgarten am a one per center. I just don't know.
Mark R
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Granger
Sergeant
Username: Granger
Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 7:21 am: |
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Mark: I have to say that, I too, am in that 1% brigade!! After reading the major four books on the subject I totally convinced of of WHW's guilt, but then................!
What really puzzles me is the total lack of apparent motive. No one has yet convinced me of why the Hell he wanted to kill Julia. I also believe if WHW had been the murderer he would have left some sort of death bed confession. After planning such a brilliant crime, I think he was of the character who would have wanted everyone to know how he did it and gain even more notoriety. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 48
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2005 - 4:50 am: |
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Hi Granger
Yes, there are certain things in this case that make me believe that WHW is guilty but also things that make me think he is innocent. One thing that convinces me of his innocence is the kids that stated Alan Close delivered the milk at 6.40-45. I really do believe that Close did not deliver the milk at 6.30. Plenty of 'Wallaceites' argue the case against WHW on this point, but I do believe that Douglas Metcalfe, Kenneth Campbell Caird and Elsie Wright did hear Close state that he saw Mrs. Wallace at 'a quarter to seven'.
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 49
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:22 am: |
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Re: 'players being penalised if arriving later than 7.45 for chess matches.' I've heard the argument that because Chandler didn't turn up for his game with WHW, the penalty therefore would not apply, so WHW could have got to the club later than 7.45. This presupposes Wallace's knowledge - he didn't know that Chandler wouldn't show up. If he would have turned up later than 7.45 and Chandler DID show up, his exact time of arrival would have been common knowledge to all at the club - very suspicious indeed. I also cannot believe that the police did not check out the 'bus' theory for the evening of the 19th (from the call box). I think they probably did, but uncovered nothing in favour towards their 'case'
Mark R
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MTR
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rigby
Post Number: 70
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:31 am: |
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Hi Mark,
FYI: Merseyside Police sent me a list of their Wallace holdings: 1094 pages (in two box files and a lever-arch folder). Do you want the list via email ?
Mike. |
Mark Bloch
Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 50
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:42 am: |
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The Hayhurst piece on The Wallace Case in Lancashire Murders has several inaccuracies. Hayhurst states that:
'WHW arrived at the chess club at 7.40' (if he did then this points strongly towards Wallace's innocence). In actual fact, the EXACT time was not known.
'Wallace left by the back door, but Julia stayed indoors due to a cold...' Wallace stated that Julia walked down the yard with him.
'16 year old Alan Close' (He was actually 14).
'The tram left Smithdown Lane at 7.10. (It actually left about 7.06).
'The weapon could have been hidden within one of the midden's in the area' - the whole area was searched extensively.
'To be fair to Wallace, the church clock could have been fast or slow...' (The clock was checked out to be in perfect time).
Hayhurst also states:
Re: Parry had a 'minor criminal record.' I know it happened after the case, but I don't think indecent assault is what you would term 'minor'.
Hayhurst also claims:
'Why didn't the murderer commit the act on the Monday evening?' The same could also be said, 'well, why didn't Wallace?'
(Message edited by Mark on December 09, 2005)
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 51
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 5:55 am: |
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Hi Mike-
Yes, that would be great!
Thanks
Mark
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 52
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 6:04 am: |
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I've been looking at some of the street directories on microfilm here and a few interesting things to note. It doesn't list the Johnstons as living next to the Wallaces (in number 31 W.S.) but an 'Arthur Mills'. Unfortunately the street directories at this time didn't list everyone who lived in each household, (only one person). It is a known fact that these documents are not 100% reliable. I also looked up the list for 26 Pennsylvania Road (where the Wallaces originally lived before moving into 29 WS). I recently visited the site but there is just a wasteland between numbers 24 & 28. In a street guide of the road in the early 1930's the number 26 is missing from it then. I don't know what happened to the house but it is all rather mysterious.
I was looking at the guide for 2002 for Sedley Street (The Close Dairy was at no.51) and there happens to be a person by the name 'Qualtrough' living in the street (bear in mind that Sedley Street is two streets away from Wolverton Street). This case never ceases to amaze me!
Mark R
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Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 682
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 12, 2005 - 2:42 pm: |
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Perhaps the Johnstons were there on a sublet deal or something of the sort. Just a guess.
Stan |
Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 53
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 4:47 am: |
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Stan-
Yes, I was thinking something like that
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 54
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:29 am: |
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Just been looking at some archive photos in the Central Library here. Interesting one of Allerton Police Station dated 7th November 1930 (two months before the murder). PC James Serjeant left the station just before meeting Wallace on the corner of Allerton Road/Green Lane on the evening of 20th January 1931.
Also in contact with a lady from the Isle of Man who tells me that she is sure that the builders of the houses around the Woburn Hill/Tynwald Hill area were called Qualtrough. (Parry lived in 7 Woburn Hill). In fact, several of the streets around this area are named in connection with the Isle of Man.
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 55
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 4:30 am: |
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Both the F.J.P. Veale and John Rowland books (erroneously) state Allison Wildman as a girl.
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 5:27 am: |
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Recently obtained the Ordnance Survey map for Anfield (how it was) in 1908. The accompanying text has a brief history of the area including both Everton & Liverpool Football Clubs and also The Wallace Case. The houses in Wolverton Street were built in 1910.
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 57
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 4:53 am: |
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The F.J.P. Veale book is pretty good but there are a few errors. It is stated that Wallace left 29 W.S. at 6.50 (Tuesday 20th January). Veale also states the Smithdown Lane tram stop as being 'about 15 minutes walk from 29 W.S.' This is definitely not so - it is in fact 2 miles away and more likely a 35-40 minute walk. Veale also says that conductor told WHW that there was no Menlove Gardens East. The conductor said nothing of the sort - he said the tram didn't go to the Menlove Gardens area.
Mark R
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Mark Bloch
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mark
Post Number: 58
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
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If Wallace was going out of his way to impress himself on witnesses in Menlove Gardens area, why is it that two of them didn't even recognise him in the line-up?
Also, if he was hanging around in the hope of wasting time, why didn't he take up PC Serjeant's suggestion and call at 25 Menlove Avenue? This would have given him even more time (Goodman states in his book that Wallace claimed [to PC Serjeant] that the person he was looking for was called "Qualthorpe")
Mark R
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