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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 687
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:02 pm: | 
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Hello
I thought people might be interested in knowing what was going on in the case of Susan Smith who some may recall, killed her two children in South Carolina by rolling the two live infants into a lake while they were strapped into their car seats. She then stood by as it took roughly 20 minutes for the car to fill with water thereby slowly drowning the children. She said she was going to kill herself by drowning along with her children but got 'cold feet' about killing herself at the last minute. What a shame.
Smith's real reason for committing infanticide was that her wealthy lover told her he was ending the affair at least in part because he did not want children.
Smith is now housed about 15 minutes away from me on the other side of Columbia in a correctional institute. It appears she has caused quite an ongoing scandal at this facility by having sexual relations with as many guards and visitors as possible. So I guess you could say she is handling life in prison and adjusting to prison life pretty much as she handled her life as a free woman.
I favour the death penalty in cases involving particularly egregious murders. I disfavour it in cases where the killer should be forced to live the rest of his life behind bars contemplating their actions. Since it dosn't seem Ms. Smith is particularly remorseful, it is a shame the first alternative was not undertaken by the State in this case.
All The Best
Gary
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 4:53 pm: |
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I hesitate here -mostly because I dont believe in the death penalty-but also because its so easy to condemn someone who appears to have cold-bloodedly killed her children out of self interest.
I dont know of the case either but I understand that people can commit both suicide and murder when in the grip of threats of abandonment by a lover.The balance of the mind can get disturbed
and despair and rage can erase all reason.That is why for example the laws in France differ from those in the UK regarding Crimes of Passion.
As regards her alleged promiscuity,this is a give away regarding those who suffer from unresolved childhood abandonment issues.Sexual relations substituting for a closeness that replaces that person"s previous need for consistent loving care in childhood.Gary I accept this may sound like a lot of psychobabble but more and more is at present coming to light about what can be the consequences for certain individuals when abandonment and emotional neglect have had a profound impact on their early lives.
Best Natalie |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3253
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:35 pm: |
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Hi Natalie
I believe that all adults who aren't mentally ill or retarded are responsible for the balance of their minds.
Robert |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 688
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:36 pm: |
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Hi Natalie
I guess I tend to be a little judgemental when it comes to this case. However, I did know some of the lawyers involved. Susan Smith was said to be an automation. Someone who could go on camera with her crying husband by her side and tearfully plead for 'her babies safe return' when she knew better than anyone what had happened. I am told she could turn on and off the emotions at will.
Nevertheless, you are correct in suspecting childhood abuse. Her father in law, an elected politician in Union County, South Carolina had been having sex with her for an extended time and he admitted they had had sex as recently as 2 months before the murders.
I think The Crime Library may have a section on Ms. Smith.
All The Best
Gary |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 689
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:41 pm: |
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HI Robert
I agree with you. But keep in mind that some of us, like myself, don't have much of a mind to be responsible for.
All The Best
Gary |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 1198
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 5:57 pm: |
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Gary and Robert,thanks Gary for that info on the crime library.Hope to look it up tomorrow and yes she could be a freakish type of psychopath the chilling coldness when she knew quite well what had happened to her children would not be typical of a crime connected with passionate despair.
I mostly agree with you Robert.But this can not only be the stuff of Greek Tragedy-Medea type but also of mental instability which affects the balance of the mind.However in those cases I have heard of to do with crimes of passion there is usually great remorse and contrition when that person eventually comes to their senses-often wanting to die anyway when they realise what they have done[Ruth Ellis for example when she came to her senses after she had killed her lover].
In this Susan Smith case she seems to have compounded the crime by denial.
Best Natalie
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 690
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 6:16 pm: |
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Hi Natalie
Crimes of passion and crimes involving self-defense or the defense of others, as well as crimes committed by those who do not have the intellectual ability to form the intent to plan on harming others are certainly not within my realm of crimes in which the death penalty should be considered.
We may not be that far apart on the idea of capital punishment. When I speak of egregious crimes, I am looking more at those that involve torture and multiple murder or torture/rape and murder. If the perpetrator has an ounce of conscience he/she should serve life without parole. As Robert implies there has to be accountability at some stage.
I think with the advancements we are making in DNA and forensics trace evidence, the margin for error in convicting the innocent will decrease and releasing the wrongly accused will increase.
All The Best
Gary |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 84
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 9:47 pm: |
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Dear Gary: I agree 100 percent with you regarding Smith's sham television performances and taking into account the premeditation of murdering her kids [ imagine watching them struggle to avoid drowning.....for minutes ! ],I would ordinarily,being a huge fan of the death penalty for bona fide 1st degree murder convictions,help strap this bad momma in Old Sparky....but not this time.
Couldn't they isolate her? A life of day-to-day reminders of what she did to her kids would be justice. Maybe holographic images of her kids placed on her cell wall....Death is too easy for this bitch.
I served jury duty in August on a horrific murder of a woman here in Philly...The State of Pennsylvania decided not to seek the DP for the guilty woman [ stabbed an elderly woman 39 times... 5 hammer shots to the head....slashed her throat thrice..robbed her...and went back and forth from her friends apartment to take food to feed HER 4 year old son when not smoking crack...] because they were worried about appeals which would cost big bucks. I was pretty happy that my 11 fellow jurists saw things the way I did. A first degree conviction in front of a super-tough female judge...
You have pointed out an important aspect of prison life that many people don't grasp. Not that these people live in the clouds,but because they are "nice" people.
After these murderers go through the initial phase of adapting to life INSIDE,they really don't have to worry too much about what they did on the OUTSIDE to get there, since they more than likely aren't going back. Hence,they continue to live a new life....while the victims families struggle to deal with their losses.
It ain't fair.
P.S. Gary...You mention that Smith had had sex with her "father-in-law" which of course was consensual,two months before all this happened...
Don't you mean her stepfather? I haven't checked Crime Library for it. Thank you sir....
(Message edited by howard on October 18, 2004) |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 692
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
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Hi Howard
Yes, you are correct it was her father-in-law.
The thing that drives me crazy about cases like the ones you mention is that vicious murderers are seen as model prisoners if they can adjust to being institutionalised. This automatically prompts many parole boards into deciding they should be let out into regular society. "They havn't killed anybody in prison so they must be ready for release into society. Besides we need to make room for non-violent offenders" What are these parole boards thinking? .
All The Best
Gary |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 693
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 10:42 pm: |
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P.S. I just checked The Crime Library. Susan Smith is listed under women who kill. I haven't had a chance to read the write up, but I know that the quality of the writing on that sight can vary greatly.
Best
Gary |
Vincent
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 10:18 am: |
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Mr. Brown asks: "Couldn't they isolate her? A life of day-to-day reminders of what she did to her kids would be justice."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the only true remaining permanent solitary confinement left in the United States is Death Row. I know that some murderers, such as Manson, are serving their sentences out in solitary but by and large that is for repeated serious infractions of prison rules (dealing drugs, assault, etc.), and then it is only temporary. I'm not sure if sex with a guard warrants that under the prison regulations.
And I think that Susan Smith would not be bothered by day-to-day reminders of her kids at all--she would need a conscience for that to be any punishment, and I don't believe she has any.
Regards, Vincent |
Howard Brown
Detective Sergeant
Username: Howard
Post Number: 86
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 1:18 pm: |
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Dear Vincent...
"And I think that Susan Smith would not be bothered by day-to-day reminders of her kids at all--she would need a conscience for that to be any punishment, and I don't believe she has any.
I stand corrected,sir...She doesn't have a conscience...
Yours truly, Howard |
Matthew Hall
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 2:16 pm: |
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First off, i agree with most of the messages here, but as for Gary, with the post of October 18th, sir, I belive that you really need to get your facts strait, before you go condeming someone in that way, for one fact, she did not stand there and watch the car fill with water, she turned and fled to a neighbors house as soon as the car rolled into the lake, and the boys, although young, were not infants, only one of them were, the other was a toddler. She did not commit infantcide, or what ever you would call it, based solely on what her lover, (married) said to her in the letter he wrote to her, she was going to commit suicide, but got out of the car at the last minute. And as for putting her in solitary confinement because she proportedly does not have a concience, i can say, did any of you interview her in prison, and do any of you have a psychology degree, because if not, i do not understand where you are getting these ideas from, And as for the whole, her and her step father were having consensual sex, i belive that to be an unfounded rumor that the media reported. I dont agree with what she did, or condone it in any way, but thats how people consider the untrue, to be true, when someone recklessly posts untrue facts due to little or no knowlege of the case. If u want to know about me, i am a criminology student in North Carolina, who has followed this case from its begining, and am still trying to follow updates to this day, and the only reason i am adding this post, is because i am sick of looking at all these bill bords on this case that are full of untrue facts posted by people who seem to know very little of the case exept what they have heard in the media. Theres an old quote that i belive in here people, and its "you cant belive everything that you hear on TV" Thank you for your time, and if i have offended anyone, i am truely sorry.
Thank you
Matthew |
Matthew Hall
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, October 29, 2004 - 1:06 pm: |
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Hello Again from matthew, I just wanted to add, now that i caught another part of gary's posting at the top of this page, more intently, the October 18th posting, to dispell even yet another untrue fact about susan smith, she did not have sex with every guard and visitor she came in contact with, for one, she had sex with two of them, and for two, she is not allowed contact visits to my knowledge with anyone but family members and i dont think that she would be havin sex with her mother,............... so, I just wish that when people want to run sites like this, and they want to run someone down, atleast do it factually, and not from what they heard in the media, once again. Thank you for your time, and i will enjoy enlightning arguments from this site on this matter. I again am sorry if i offended anyone, this is not my intention, i just know a whole lot about this case to say the least, would like to see sites that contain facts, not mere opinions based solely on what people have read and heard, and saw
Matthew |
LeeLee
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 3:17 pm: |
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It is my opinion that Susan Smith is a horrible human being.
Does anyone consider the man whose children were so ravenously taken away from him and how much he suffers everyday knowing he will never see them or touch them again? |
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