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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 12:56 pm: | 
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I don't think this has been posted before:-
The Times
4 January 1927
Murder Charge Withdrawn
Joseph Carson, 65, an inmate of the West Ham Guardians' institution, Forest House, Walthamstow, was brought before Mr. Snell at Old street Police Court yesterday charged on remand and on his own confession with the murder of Jane Williams at Miller Court, Spitalfields, on December 29. Detective Inspector Boreham informed the magistrate that the case was one in which the defendant gave himself up for the wilful murder of a woman. There had been a post mortem examination made, and a verdict of "Death from natural causes" had been returned by the jury at the inquest, and he would like to withdraw the charge. He thought Carson was under the influence of drink at the time he made his statement to the police. Mr. Snell (to Carson) - You are discharged.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3101
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 3:51 pm: |
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I'm not sure I don't half-remember you posting this one, Chris, but I'll bung it in just in case.
"TIMES" NOV 29th 1898
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3102
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 4:28 pm: |
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Fighting in church!
MAR 29th 1882
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3103
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:04 pm: |
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Apparently Mitre Square had a terrorist history.
This is from a long article about dynamite outrages, FEB 10th 1885.
No. 1 Mitre Sq is also mentioned.
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 426
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:32 pm: |
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Hi, Robert
Thanks for posting this 1885 account--apparently this wasn't the first time Mitre Square was associated with explosives. You might be interested in the the following, from the City Press here on Casebook. From 28 Nov 1888:
MITRE-SQUARE. - It has been discovered that Mitre-square, the scene of one of the recent atrocities, has "criminally-historic" associations, although it is a quiet-looking place. It was in the first place the scene of the capture of the dynamiters who blew up a portion of the Tower of London, and then not more than twenty years ago two men blew up a house in the square - and themselves at the same time - with gunpowder. - C.C.
and a follow-up letter, 1 Dec 1888:
SIR, - In your issue of Wednesday I read in "Notes and Queries" that Mitre-square has "criminally-historic" associations. "C.C." gives three incidents. I concur with him in two, but the last, which reads thus, "Twenty years ago two men blew up a house in the square," was not a criminal act, but the result of a pure accident. Permit me to briefly give particulars of the event. The house was No. 7 (site now occupied by warehouses), and stood in a south-east position, then occupied by a Mrs. Simmonds, who used to let the upper part as furnished apartments. The first floor was let to two foreigners, who at the time were experimenting with some material of an explosive nature, when one of them struck a match to light a cigar, and carelessly threw it down, and, coming into contact with the inflammable combustion, exploded, set fire to the house, the interior of which was destroyed, and the two unfortunate men lost their lives. The charred remains were placed in St. James's Church (which then stood immediately opposite) awaiting burial. Being a resident in the square at the time, I can substantiate the above facts. - I am, &c,
MITRE.
I wonder if in your searches of the Times, you've come across an account of this gunpowder explosion which was supposed to have taken place around 1868?
Cheers,
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on September 26, 2004) |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3105
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 5:50 pm: |
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Hi Dave
Thanks for that info. Here's the item :
Dec 20 1865
Robert |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 319
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:08 pm: |
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Hi Robert
There is some info on Kate Marshall on the Stephen White thread.
Rob |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 1354
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:10 pm: |
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Cooooooooooooo what tremendous articles!!!!
I love the 'If it had been anyone but my sister' remark!!!!
And also the 'Ice,bottles of spirits and india rubber shoes!!!!!' Sounds like a good night out (or in!)....might improve the allegedly falling church attendance figures tho!
Cheers!!!!
Suzi |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 427
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:29 pm: |
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Hi, Robert
Thanks for that. Chinese fire? Am I right that means fireworks? The steamers make me think of Kate Eddowes. . .did you know that on Sept. 29 1888, there was a fire station (consisting of a wagon, not a steamer) just past St. James Passage? I think there was also a proper station nearby on Aldgate.
(Thinking to myself) Hmmm. . .a cigarette manufacturing outfit in 1865 Mitre Square.
Cheers,
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3106
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 6:46 pm: |
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Dave, Rob
Thanks for that info, Rob. One thing I'd like to do, is find out what happened to Harold Hall, Kate Ronan's murderer, because he doesn't seem to have been executed.
Dave, there was a tobacconist there on Mar 13th 1928 too - with a very helpful picture so that you could visit them in Africa!
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 428
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 7:17 pm: |
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Hi, Robert
Thanks for the A.J. Storey information--the map of Africa would be extremely helpful to anyone parachuting in!
Cheers,
Dave |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 320
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 7:23 pm: |
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Hi Robert
I haven't been able to find out anything about Harold Hall. I did try checking under the alias he used (William Johnson) without success.
The only reason I can think of that he wasn't executed would be if he was found insane, and ended up in an asylum. Perhaps it wasn't important enough for the Times to publish. A local paper may have the answer.
All the best
Rob |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1411
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:20 am: |
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Hi Rob L
Yes I think I did post some info re the Kate Marshall case ages ago - of interest because it also took place in Miller's Court. Kate was eventually convicted and sentenced to hang but this was commuted to life imprisonment. There was also an extraordinary legal wrangle by her solicitor over custody of the murder weapon. I am posting some articles below. There is a long account of the trial which I am currently transcribing and will post as soon as it's done
Chris
14 December 1898
At Worship street, Kate Marshall, 44, whip maker, charged with the wilful murder of her sister Elizabeth, the wife of a man named Roberts, was brought up on remand. Mr. Avory, barrister, appeared for the Treasury to condcut the case, Mr. Havelock defending, The prisoner gave evidence on oath, and denied having committed the murder, suggesting that the death of her sister was due to an attack made by her own husband. In cross examination she admitted that she had been frequently convicted for stabbing. The prisoner was committed for trial at the January sessions of the Central Criminal Court.
13 January 1899
Central Criminal Court
Before Mr. Justice Darling, the trial of Kate Marshall, 44, on a charge of murdering her sister, Elizabeth Roberts, was concluded. The prisoner gave evidence on her own behalf, denied having stabbed her sister, and alleged that the husband of the deceased had committed the act. In cross examination - after a long argumewnt as to the admissibility of the question - she admitted that she had several times been convicted for stabbing and malicious wounding, but it was lawys done in self defecnce. The jury found her guilty, but recommended her to mercy on the fround that the blow was struck when she was in a state of drunken frenzy. The prisoner was sentenced to death.
20 January 1899
At Bowstreet, yesterday, before Sir John Bridge, Mr. Holloway, solicitor, applied for a summons requiring the Commissioner of Police to show cause why he should not deliver to Mr. Havelock - the solicitor acting for Kate Marshall, now under sentence of death for the murder of her sister at Spitalfields - the knife with which the murder was committed. He stated that the knife had been assigned by the condemned woman to Mr. Havelock. It was not disputed that this knife was her property. Sir John Bridge said that even if he granted a summons, he should certainly not make an order for the delivery of the knife. Mr. Holloway said that lawyers who had been consulted held that this assignment constituted a valid claim for the knife. In the case of Mrs. Pearcey an order was made as to property forming the subject of a murder charge. Sir John Bridge said there could be no doubt that this solicitor wanted the knife for a certain purpose, and he considered this perfectly monstrous. In the circumstances he thought it would be wrong to give up the knife, and he should not grant a summons. The parties interested could apply to the High Court for a mandamus if they wished.
25 January 1899
The Law Courts
In the Queen's bench Divison of the High Court, yesterday, before Mr. Justice Lawrance and Mr. Justice Channell. a motion was made for a rule nisi for a certiorari to remove into the Queen's Bench Division the record of the proceedings in the case of Kate Marshall, convicted of murder in the Central Criminal Court, in order to raise the question whether the verdict of the jury did not amount to one of manslaughter only. Their Lordships refused the rule, holding that they had no jurisdiction.
27 January 1899
Respite of the Convict Marshall:
In the case of Kate Marshall, who was sentenced to death at the Central Criminal Court for the murder of Eliza Roberts, her sister, her counsel has received an intimation from the Home Office "that the Secretary of State has felt warranted under all the circumstances in advising her Majesty to respite the capital sentence with a view to its commutation to penal servitude for life."
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3108
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:57 pm: |
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Thanks Chris. What on earth could the solicitor have wanted the knife for? Surely not to sell as a souvenir?
Robert |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1413
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 1:01 pm: |
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Hi Robert
That intrigued me too. It all boils down to the judge's vague phrase "this solicitor wanted the knife for a certain purpose, and he considered this perfectly monstrous." This suggests that the judge knew full well what was behind the request and strongly disapproved. I think your souvenir suggestion is a strong contender as I cannot see why else he would want it.
Chris |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3109
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 1:25 pm: |
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Chris. have a look at Nov 30th 1898, search term "Havelock" - there was a suggestion he'd been touting for business (on another case).
Robert |
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