| Author |
Message |
    
Tim_308
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 12:30 pm: | 
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I find it curious that police at the time were willing to take descriptions like "broad shouldered", "stout", and "medium build."
Why didn't they ask for an approximate weight? Weight would be much more useful in judging appearance than "stout" or "broad shouldered."
If I were going to describe somebody for police I would think that the most important features outside of eyes, hair, and race would be both height and weight.
I mean, when a witness says 5'6" and stout, does that mean 200 lbs, 250 lbs, or 175 lbs? It could really be any of them, they are all stout.
Why didn't the cops ask for any approximate weights and why weren't any given? Was this standard procedure back then? Certainly the average person can guesstimate the weight of an individual within 15 pounds or so, or if it is beyond 15 pounds describe them as obese or whatever!
Are there any witness reports that give a weight?
Tim |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2414
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 13, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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Hi Tim,
I wouldn't feel able to guess any man's weight accurately (we use stones and pounds over here BTW: 14 pounds = 1 stone), even while standing next to him. If I only saw a man briefly and at night and was asked later how much he weighed, I'd have little or no chance.
Even Druitt was heavier by a few stones when they found him. 
Love,
Caz
X |
c.d.
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cd
Post Number: 125
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 9:42 pm: |
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Caz,
Even Druitt was heavier by a few stones when they found him.
Ooooh, that's cold.
c.d. |
Stanley D. Reid
Chief Inspector
Username: Sreid
Post Number: 689
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 10:11 pm: |
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Today, the police usually give a weight for a suspect they're looking for.
Stan (10 stone and 5) |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 9:58 am: |
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Stan,
Just pulled an NPA01 Non-Police Agencies Form.
Its a form we fill out during IUCs which describes a punter. Tick boxes for height, right or left handed, hair colour, style, build, scars ect.
Weight is not mentioned. Only build. That is fat, stocky, thin, medium....
I dont know why that is.
Monty
It begins.....
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3318
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
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Surely it is because it is hard to guess someones weight.
with height there are things to measure against walls etc etc.
With weight its a bit more difficult, right?
I mean I wouldn't know how much people i've met weighed without asking, height I can do.
that said it does seem odd.
"Does your granny always tell ya that the old songs are the best? Then she's up and rock 'n' rollin' with the rest?"
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:27 am: |
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Jenni,
Bang on.
Build is more easier to ID than weight.
Monty
It begins.....
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3319
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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Monty,
thanks.
i'm sure that must be it.
though that said, it is a little odd
Jenni
"Does your granny always tell ya that the old songs are the best? Then she's up and rock 'n' rollin' with the rest?"
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Andrew Spallek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 1028
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
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Today we all have bathroom scales and we are used to measuring the exact weight of people. In Victorian times, I doubt that many people had bathroom scales and probably didn't have a good idea of their own weight, let alone someone else's.
Andy S. |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 311
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 1:44 pm: |
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Whatho Andrew,
I still have no idea of the weight of other people. I could go into the reason why but I like my testicles exactly where they are. 
I'm 14 stone and 5ft 8, just short for my weight.
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
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Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 899
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:41 pm: |
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The whole business of Ripper descriptions is fraught with imponderables beyond whether anyone ever saw Jack or not. Except for facial spinach (or a lack thereof) it would seem the witnesses took little or no notice of the a person's face and the most vivid details are always about clothes. Indeed, the victims are almost always identified by their clothes.
They are usually very specific about age, which is really what witnesses are least able to be accurate about. Even the doctors' estimates of a victim's age was usually wrong. They are also specific about height, either naming a specific height or estimating it in comparison to a known standard (like a victim's height) and on the few occasiona a witness did both the height estimates did not jibe. To expect weight estimates to have been any better is wishful thinking.
If, indeed, any of the witnesses actually saw Jack, about all we can take away from their sightings is that Jack was pretty average looking -- not too tall or short, not too young or old, no big nose, jut jaw, eye patch or pegleg, and also not pencil thin or grossly obese. IF, of course, any of the witnesses did see him.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3320
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |
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Mark,
you set yourself up for some beauties there. Of course being the lady that i am (*ahem*) I'm not going to use any of them.
Andrew,
true though people I would say i knew well, i still wouldnt like to guess there weight.
I would be hopelessly out and probably cause great offence.
I wouldn't want to cause offence to anyone.
Don,
Its a big if right?
Jenni
"Does your granny always tell ya that the old songs are the best? Then she's up and rock 'n' rollin' with the rest?"
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Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 900
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 2:56 pm: |
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Jenni,
As big as I am -- and I'm 6-1 and a few too many boulders.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3321
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 3:05 pm: |
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I see - i'd forgotten what i said and belive me your answer confused me because of that!!
Yes it is a big if.
Jenni
ps im half with it the over halfs god knows where
"Does your granny always tell ya that the old songs are the best? Then she's up and rock 'n' rollin' with the rest?"
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Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1236
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 6:19 pm: |
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Don brings up an interesting point about "weight" being less remarkable to the casual glance of a basically disinterested party...that being of witnesses who weren't really that interested in the first place.
With overcoats on, weight will be invariably be the least accurate statistic one will recall. These "suspects" with the various women [ save the mnemonical miracle of Hutchinson ] were remembered by hat type and facial hair. Both are more likely to be the most accurate in recall,as height was based on a "good guess"...and weight being hidden by the coat.
Broad shouldered men usually appear shorter than skinny or thin men of the same height. Its an optical illusion. |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 6:07 am: |
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...and not to forget,Rev.Spallek brings up one of those little tidbits of history that we tend to forget or overlook.... Even in the midst of the great scientific movement in the West,spearheaded by England and its Industrial Revolution in the 19th century...people were in the dark about their actual weight on a day to day basis.
16 stone of steak and cake... |
Goldberg
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 10:14 am: |
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Hey im a school student in high school and im writing a report about jack the ripper if any one has any information that would blow anyone elses project out of the water let me know. email me at littledavid20@aol.com Thanks |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 312
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 4:21 pm: |
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Whatho Goldberg,
Just look at the whole of this site. It's full of bizarre and weird suggestions. But come closure, I'll let you into a secret:
Whitechapel doesn't really exist in this world. You can only get to it by entering a wardrobe.
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
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