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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 878
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2005 - 9:33 pm: | 
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This is a long shot, but I wonder who or what inspired astrakhan man, assuming he was a fiction.
To facilitate this line of thought it would really be helpful if one of us (not me) who is artistically inclined were to make a drawing from Hutchinson's description.
The point of this exercise would be that we could possibly look at the image and say something like, "why that reminds me of pictures I've seen of . . ."
It would be unlikely to lead us to astrakhan man because his existence is doubtful. What it would do is give us some insight into Hutchinson's mind. If we could relate it to some stereotype or even an individual's appearance in the LVP, then we could further undermine Hutchinson's veracity or possibly supply support to his story.
This is admittedly a fishing expedition and I don't know where it would lead. |
Dan Norder
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 1027
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
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Hi Diana,
Jane's cover of the April 2005 issue of Ripper Notes features her version of the man in question. You can see it here: April 2005 cover of Ripper Notes
Various artists at the time also drew their version of the man. The Illustrated Police News had one or more that I'm sure must be online somewhere, but I couldn't think of where offhand.
A later interpretation was printed in Famous Crimes Past and Present. That is reproduced in Stewart Evans' article about Hutchinson's testimony, which was in the July 2005 issue and included (text and that particular image, though not the other images from the article) on the Casebook as a free sample. You can see that here: "Suspect and Witness - The Police Viewpoint" by Stewart P. Evans.
You ask about seeing who the image may look like. The one from Famous Crimes Past and Present looks so much like a former boss of mine that it's uncanny... But then he was born too late and was much too nice of a guy to have been the killer or a basis for an imaginary killer. Not that that helps at all, but it's such a good likeness that it drives me nuts every time I see it, so I couldn't resist mentioning it.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 879
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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In looking at the picture I was drawn to reread Stewart Evans article and he brings out one point in Hutchinson's favor. If he was Jack, he would have been very dumb to stand outside Mary's door for 45 minutes where anybody could see him and remember him.
Since Jack always got away we must concede that he was not that dumb. |
j kish
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 4:51 am: |
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maybe he wasnt standing outside mary's door for 45 min.i think hutchinson made that all up.in my mind sometimes it make me wonder if he's the killer.a highly suspect i think. |
Ben Holme
Detective Sergeant
Username: Benh
Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 11:03 am: |
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Hi Diana,
"If he was Jack, he would have been very dumb to stand outside Mary's door for 45 minutes where anybody could see him and remember him."
But he was almost certainly "dumb" enough to allow several witnesses to observe him in the company of his victims just minutes before the murders, and further, if we accept Stride as a JTR victim, then we must accept that he was "dumb" enough to be caught in the act (almost).
Loitering outside Crossingham's is, by contrast, no great risk.
If Hutchinson did indeed have nefarious intentions that night, he couldn't have made a more prudent choice of headwear. A wideawake hat had a wide brim which would certainly have cast a shadow over his face in the dark recesses of Dorset Sreet.
It is also worth noting that he did not stand outside Mary's room for 45 minutes. He *claimed* to have stood outside the court, on the opposite side of Dorset Street.
Best Regards,
Ben
(Message edited by BenH on December 15, 2005) |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 907
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 3:01 pm: |
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Schwartz/Lawende claim to have seen a man of about 30 years. I wonder how old Hutch was? |
Ben Holme
Detective Sergeant
Username: Benh
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 3:11 pm: |
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Hi,
I once came across a contemporaneous article at Colindale citing GH's age as 28 or 29, but I neglected to make a copy!
Another viable Hutch candidate was a petty theif with an address at Cottage Grove, Bow. I believe this man was 33 in 1888.
Ben |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3322
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 3:22 pm: |
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Diana,
don't we only have Hutchinsons word that he stood outside for 45 minutes.
I always thought, if he was jack, I'm not saying he was, then the point was he was in fact inside killing MJK?
Jenni
ps I love the title of this thread.
"Does your granny always tell ya that the old songs are the best? Then she's up and rock 'n' rollin' with the rest?"
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 4:13 pm: |
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Hi guys,
The man named George hutchinson[ william Topping] was born in 1866 and was born on the 1st october of that year.
He was a young man only a couple of years younger then mjk.
Why anyone disputes this is beyond me.
At that time in his life times were hard, he was trying to find his own feet, but his integreity and observation skills have been vouched by his son Reg.
I am positive that Regs father George Hutchinson was the man in question, and have no reason what so ever to dispute this .
The informant[ Reg]in Faircloughs book 'The Ripper and the Royals' is the same person that gave a Radio interview some twenty years previous.
of that there can be no doubt.
I Would suggest that Mr Hutchinsons statement made on the 12th November 1888, was made in a honest manner, but i would throw suspiscion on what was relayed to the media..
Regards Richard. |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1235
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 6:06 pm: |
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Folks:
There is a photo floating around on one of the Ripper sites that is claimed to be a photo of George Hutchinson.
It probably would not be of any use for Ms. Comer's intentions, however, as the photo in question shows a man closer to 40-45 years old and not one in his thirties,for sure.
No,we don't have it on our Ripper site...and I do not know how they ever obtained the photo. |
Harry Mann
Inspector
Username: Harry
Post Number: 249
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 4:13 am: |
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One question.Do we know for certain,that the true name of the man who came forward,was Hutchinson.?It may have been a name he was using at the time,but like most every thing else he said,it seems to have no provenence. |
Ben Holme
Detective Sergeant
Username: Benh
Post Number: 98
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
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A good point, Harry, and one which is not often considered.
Jenni - You're quite right. A timely reminder that we only have the dubious word of George Hutchinson that he waited outside Crossinghams for 45 minutes.
Richard - It was only recently that a number of Casebook contributers expounded upon the numerous problems with the theory that George William Topping Hutchinson and the GH of ripper fame are one and the same. Unfortunately, those problems have yet to be satisfactorily accounted for.
Howard - I'm very excited to hear your news of a GH photo discovery. Any idea what prompted this other ripper site to arrive at the conclusion that the photo they've discovered is of "our" man?
Best,
Ben |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 8:14 am: |
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Dear Ben:
Off the top of my head, the photo in question was placated on that site [ jtrforums.co.uk ] around 7 or 8 months ago.
I asked the person who put it there if that really was Hutchinson and they assured me that it was. The photo,as I previously mentioned,was of an older man, someone over 40 years of age.
Sorry to be of little help,Ben.. |
Ben Holme
Detective Sergeant
Username: Benh
Post Number: 100
Registered: 8-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:29 am: |
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Dear Howard,
You've been a great help!
I will do some further sleuthing at jtrforums, and see what further particulars can be gleaned regarding the mysterious "new" GH. If the photograph was taken 10 years or so after 1888, the age difference can be accounted for that way.
Thanks again,
Ben |
jason_connachan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:12 am: |
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As far as im aware the photo of Hutchinson was from his family's collection. It is not a picture from him at the time of the Ripper killings. That would account for the age difference.
There was some debate wether it was of our George Hutchinson though.
Mrs Cox?? did say the man she saw had a military bearing. The Hutchinson in the photo would seem to resemble that description imo. |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3414
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 5:34 pm: |
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'jason '
It's in 'The Ripper and the Royals'!!!!!- as Richard said -a photograph of a man in his 50s with an uncanny resemblance to Conan Doyle!
A NEW pic of course would stop us all in our tracks! (well temporarily!!)
Suzi  |
jason_connachan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 9:06 pm: |
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Suzi
He always struck me as a 19th century lookalike of Sean Connery in the photograph. |
