|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 915
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 5:07 pm: | 
|
Folks - I do not want to get involved in a slanging match here as both parties are friends of mine. I understand AP's long-held feelings on books, clubs, meetings, conferences (and message boards?) but I do not think it was helpful to bring this difficult situation onto the boards.
For some reason Coral cannot currently log into her account to post and so has sent me this e-mail hoping I will do so for her.
I want to make it clear I have already stated my opinion on the unauthorised change of format of Ripperologist (like HM The Queen after the death of Diana... a very strange silence from one quarter...) and that the e-mail I am posting here is on behalf of a friend. If AP was locked out and asked me to post for him, I would also do so. Please note I have removed the names of other parties.
Have just seen what AP has posted on the Casebook. I strongly object to his comments. I have totally remained loyal to the Whitechapel Society (aka Cloak & Dagger Club). Presumably this has something to do with *** and has nothing to do with my comments about Rip. In pointing out that Rip may be doing something illegal I thought it might be helping the subscribers.
As far as I am aware AP Wolf subscribes to neither the Ripperologist or the Whitechapel Society and therefore should not think he can post negative/positive comments about either.
I am sorry I have had to send this to you but as in the case of *** I do not like the fact that my name is being is being bismirched.
Coral
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 3333
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 5:19 pm: |
|
Guys -
I know there are a lot of people upset about this, but this is getting a bit silly. I'm fairly sure no one at Ripperologist is trying to defraud their susbcribers, and to assume that's what's happening is pretty unfair considering the stellar work the Ripperologist team has done over the past decade. If you are a subscriber and you have no interest in the new electronic version, then I have no doubt that the editorial staff will listen to your concerns and do whatever is in their power to come to some equitable and fair agreement.
And as always, let's keep the mudslinging to a minimum please. I've absolutely no idea what's going on between AP and Coral but clearly that sort of thing should be dealt with offline and not on these boards.
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
|
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2929
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
|
When folk come over here from the Whitechapel Society we support them and listen to their views, but when folk go from Casebook to the Whitechapel Society we are treated as lepers and outsiders.
That is my simple gripe.
Not good enough.
This exclusive business has got to go. |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 306
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 6:36 pm: |
|
Whatho all,
So the Rip Team's electronic idea looks very popular then  .
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
|
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 307
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 6:40 pm: |
|
Whatho again,
Will someone please give me a link to Dan Norder's magazine (if he believes in paper)?
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
|
Donald Souden
Chief Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 887
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 6:48 pm: |
|
Mark,
Find any of Dan's posts (and they are legion) and you will find a link.
Don.
"He was so bad at foreign languages he needed subtitles to watch Marcel Marceau."
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2691
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 7:11 pm: |
|
Hey now AP,you and I are" outsiders'----you know that!
In fairness to the Whitechapel Society/Coral etc
all bar none have always been most welcoming to me whenever I have gone over there![despite my awkward questions to speakers from time to time!]
The issue in question possibly relates to AP, wanting Philip to present me with this years winner of the Art and Creativity Prize,on the Art and Creativity thread, set up originally by Ap some years back mainly for works of Poetry but recently
broadening out to include Paintings.It was won last year by Robert Linford for his Poetry. The prize is an early edition of one of AP"s coveted collector item books-Jack the Myth or the earlier book he wrote about Jack.Such a prize is a great honour to me and pleasure to receive and I am most grateful to Ap and Robert for this award.
However such an 'impromptu"presentation event apparently didnt fit in well with the Whitechapel society"s arrangements and organisation I was given to understand ,at their Whitechapel Society xmas do and so to avoid embarassment
I decided not to go to the December event and put everybody -including myself -in a difficult situation over it all.
Buts its over now and no big deal and no hard feelings as far as I am concerned---- I am just really,really looking forward to getting hold of that long awaited book AP now back in the court of poor, dear Philip!
As far as the electronic Ripperologist goes I am with Stephen-its the way of the World now----we have to give chilren "books" in school like this!Maybe us tax payers should ask for their money back over it-it really does seem a shame to see them "reading"Wind in the Willows from an overhead projector,without those lovely illustrations most of the time-but its economically viable and on the ball!
Coral BTW has never been anything other than reliable,pleasant to me personally and completely above board and business like ,whenever I have spoken with her or had dealings with her!
Natalie |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 7:38 pm: |
|
Stephen,I realise you dont want this matter to run and run but as there is a fair bit of
perplexity about I wanted to clarify my part in that aspect of it that I believe concerned me.I hope you dont mind.The whole thing was originally to have been a surprise for me! |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 916
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 7:57 pm: |
|
This would never have happened if the prize was a copy of UNCLE JACK.
No one would have wanted it.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 538
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 3:40 am: |
|
This would never have happened if the prize was a copy of UNCLE JACK.
Or another pic of Lyn's wedding dress, Hon.
Sorry to have bored you all..
Love,
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2694
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 4:45 am: |
|
Hey Lyn....where are these pics of this gorgeous dress?I want to be dazzled!
Nats
x
Ps.... "cos I missed being dazzled last Saturday by the other lovely Lindsey who is also -truly- a star turn! |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 540
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:09 am: |
|
Send me your e-mail addy, Nats, and then maybe my messages will send. Suz and I got it wrong between us.
Love *always*,
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5358
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:21 am: |
|
Natalie, let me congratulate you on your win, well deserved. I haven't congratulated you up till now, because I didn't know if you were supposed to know, but now I know you know, in case you knew that I knew but thought I hadn't bothered, well now I'm bothering.
Just thought I'd make all clear.
Robert |
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 34
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:23 am: |
|
Hi Lindsay,
No not boring at all...better than the hybrid literary mutations of 'On the Knee of Uncle Jack'.
Question??? Is the Ripper print media bandwagon at saturation point? Hence the competition and infighting. Technology has indeed, and will continue now to change the face of Ripperology. Birthing pains it seems. Can we only now gather around the campfire of an internet site so that all people interested in the case can participate? Even as we speak, several sites are in icy distance and in my view, will continue to be so because of differing approaches, suspect preferences or native language barriers.
So thanks again to Stephen for providing a forum, not only of Roman and Senate proportions, but for coming closest to the ideal, a quality universal and international Ripper community.
Someone made the excellent point that some progressive research and material is now only breaking and being published on internet sites such as this.
And another curiosity or shouldn't I ask. Why all this competition guys and gals? Between this society, that periodical, that expert says this, that arm-chair debutant says that, this nationalistic theory across the pond, that encore for the Oliver Twist ragtime.
In some ways, I can understand why people like AP and other quiet achievers and closet scholars on JtR feel they way they do keeping their opinions to themselves until at last the waves break against the patient rocks of speculative learning.
I don't! It all seems petty and no fun at all. Not even remotely interesting and engaging, the reason for my initial and continuing involvement and participation.
Thank you Ripperologist for your support of the divergent Ripper community. I for one am grateful. Surely, there is room enough in the house that Jack built or is that the nature of murderous acts. To blindly divide a society!
Spiro |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 542
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:24 am: |
|
Pardon??
Brits never did make any sense.
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 543
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:31 am: |
|
I meant Robert there..
Spiro, whichever Lindsey you're referring to, the other Lindsey can sing, which I can't.
But I thank you from this Lindsey's end anyway.
Love,
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 35
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:41 am: |
|
Yes I was referring to THE Mrs Hollifield. Sounds distinctive I think. Thanks for your warm reply. A happy woman is always a song...men, well we are a species of dirge. |
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 544
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:43 am: |
|
Spiro,
Thank you, Hon.
Mean it.
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Lindsey C Hollifield
Chief Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 545
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 6:34 am: |
|
Is the Ripper print media bandwagon at saturation point?
Dunno, Spiro. Hope not, but I guess the Rip in print is a thing of the past now.
Damn shame. Maybe it'll look better online tho'.
Love,
Lyn x
My first reaction is, "OMG that's crazy". But then I'm thinking this just may be crazy enough to work.
copyright © Bradley McGinnis Sept. 2005
|
Adrian Morris
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 5:40 pm: |
|
I would urge Mr. Wolf to measure his cloth ten times before he cuts it. Coral Kelly does a tremendous job at the Whitechapel Society 1888 and he has no right to criticise it.
As for the new Ripperologist. We have had our battles in the past and I agree the new format is not the best way to go - especially for non-computer users, but knowing the hard work Adam Wood puts in, I wish them all good luck.
ADRIAN MORRIS (Editor: Whitechapel Society 1888 Journal). |
Greg Horan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 07, 2005 - 4:14 pm: |
|
I think it would be polite if Paul Begg said something in the way of an explanation to his subscribers |
A Subscriber
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 6:16 am: |
|
Spiro, your campfire sounds very cosy, but Stephen's excellent site is nothing new - it has been going for years, hardly any 'birthing pains' here I think.
The debate now is over whether a magazine (as we all know and love a magazine) should become an email attachment or not. Is it fair to paid up subscribers to be notified, out of the blue, that they will receive no more copies of a magazine they have paid for - instead they will be getting email attachments - period?
In any field of expertise, not just Ripperology, you will always find similar in-fighting, back-biting and competition - it's called human nature.
What defines a 'quiet achiever' or a closet scholar'? The Internet age has produced a new type of historian and researcher. One that doesn't have to lift his rear end off his computer-desk chair to find his information. The older types will remember having to visit archives, libraries, and other depositaries, and there having to do a lot of hard work, and incur much expense, to find anything new. But such thoughts are those of a dinosaur, I must stop it.
Nobody denies the contribution of Ripperologist past, but what sort of beast is this new ElectroRipperologist? I think many have said what they think here.
This is a fascinating and enduring forum in which all may express their views; views that will not always accord with others. But that is what gives it the appeal it has, and heaven forbid that all should sink into a 'cosy camp' with no dissent, disagreement, personal views, or healthy criticism - the life-blood, and spicy interest, of any debating forum. |
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 36
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 9:32 am: |
|
A Subscriber,
Thanks for your candid and measured reply. I certainly welcome the 'cosyness' of your practical diplomacy.
I do not subscribe to the view that the 'survival of the fittest debater' is always as wholesome as you appear to be suggesting.
If I wanted a debating forum full of "dissent, disagreement, personal views, or healthy criticism", I would go back to my ex-wife, but I know what you mean.
I was trying to express, in the context of the subject of this thread, that the demise of yet another Ripper print periodical, is a symptom of the gradual transition to internet research and publication. A consensus formed of the fruits of tradition, divergent camps of competing and consuming passions and the room for the ongoing research and it's mode of release to the wider Ripper community. Let's not lose our way with personal bickering playing into the hands of trick or treat trolls and Ripper victim opportunistic infection.
Anything but the back-stabbing excuse we have come to accept, and this also is nothing new, as "human nature".
Having said that, I truly respect your efforts as well as others who painstakingly sifted through wads of undigested documents to neatly provide information that continues to underpin the case.
In the emergence of intuitions from interactive and spirited debate on minutiae of the case, a search feature has liberated the researcher from the lonely path of self-imposed exile. Yet has also encouraged the crank conspiracies that remain a pleasure and relevant for some.
This and much else has the 'Ripperologist' reported on over ten years. It, I am afraid, is the dinosaur along with Ripperoo, Ripperana and hopefully not Ripper Notes or of the Journal of the Whitechapel Society certainly still in infancy but in capable and experienced hands, as I am sure you are aware.
Why the trend towards electronic publication unless to meet the wider appeal of diminishing subscriber bases ravaged by mass-media pulp non-fiction Ripper tracts.
In my view, this debate is about a bit more than the mere gripe of email attachments and the singular tantrum of alleged appropriation of subscriber funds, meagre as they truly are to the editors of Ripper print periodicals.
No, it is a question of cost effectiveness in the delivery and research of Whitechapel writing. Like human nature it would appear, that also never changes.
(Message edited by auspirograph on December 08, 2005) |
Christopher Lowe
Sergeant
Username: Clowe
Post Number: 37
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 9:35 am: |
|
Perhaps instead of criticising this decision (and the fact that it is exclusionary is grounds for criticism) we should instead be looking at the implications and oppurtunities this has for ripperology (god i hate that term). For example could 'Ripperologist' and its contents now be placed under a Creative Commons licence? Is it now easier to pirate? Can it be peer reviewed (please). |
AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2930
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 10:46 am: |
|
I unreservedly and humbly apologise for my thoughtless and hasty comments directed at the Whitechapel Society, and especially Coral.
Philip is quite right, I should have kept this off the boards.
Sackcloth and ashes for a week.
Sorry, folks |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2398
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 1:24 pm: |
|
Hi Philip,
You are probably not the only one who thought Coral would be the one 'explaining why the change is happening'. She still has trouble with cheques meant for the Whitechapel Society (only £6 a year?? How the hell do they manage that?) being made out to Ripperologist or Cloak & Dagger, and cheques for Rip being sent to her in error.
Hi All,
I seriously don't know how - and at times like this, why - people like Coral (for WS1888) and Adam (for Rip) find the time or the motivation to do what they do for us ripper enthusiasts.
It's a sheer labour of love, and can be a pretty thankless task sometimes.
I imagine that Rip's decision to rip the paper and start over was not taken lightly. For all I know, it might have been a case of electronic or nothing. And we don't know what other demands Adam and co may have on their time - and patience.
I say let's go with the flow and judge when the times comes.
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on December 08, 2005) |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3365
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 2:56 pm: |
|
Caz-
OK Good point !!!
At the end of the day Coral's doing a great job with the 1888,but am going to miss the old 'hard copy' of Rip...for what thats worth!
BUT if thats what happenning then why not send all present subscribers a free e copy to see what they think...contentious but......
OK let's give it a go eh......s'pose I'll have to install my printer now!
Cheers Caz!!!!! Hey guess what (off thread!) [bought a pair of AC red and white stockings today in the market!!!!!!!Whooo hooo- no stopping me now!]
Suzi
x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3366
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
|
AP DONT!!!!!! its not becoming!!!!!
Suzi |
Liza
Sergeant
Username: Liza
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:15 pm: |
|
I think it would be polite for Paul Begg to reply and give his point of view on these posts, he surely must have read them! |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3295
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:33 pm: |
|
I think qwe should wait for the mag, it could well say something that explains it all
"It's the time that every Santa has a ball
Does he ride a red nosed reindeer?"
|
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2399
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 3:26 am: |
|
Hi Suzi,
At the end of the day Coral's doing a great job with the 1888,but am going to miss the old 'hard copy' of Rip...for what thats worth!
BUT if thats what happenning then why not send all present subscribers a free e copy to see what they think...contentious but......
In case your 'buts' are slightly ambiguous here, can I just emphasise that Coral has had absolutely no connection with Rip for some time now, and the decision to ditch its hard copy, or any offers/explanations etc to present subscribers could not have less to do with her, or with anyone else who works tirelessly for the Whitechapel Society.
Hi Liza, Jenni,
I imagine something will have to be sorted out for those Rip subscribers who don't have internet access or have no intention of reading their magazines electronically.
So whether the explanation appears here or in the first electronic mag, the people in most need of an explanation (and a refund) are not going to see either!
Love,
Caz
X
(Message edited by caz on December 09, 2005) |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2696
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 4:17 am: |
|
Hi Caz,
Just to clarify-I have just sent Coral a renewal payment to the Whitechapel Society.
I agree with you absolutely that Coral does a splendid job.
I believe the whole thing regarding Coral arose out of a simple misunderstanding-nothing more,nothing less it happens on the internet because when you pass messages on you cant stress your voice in the way that you can in conversation and so meaning can be misunderstood.
It was not really anyone"s "fault" -but if anyone"s then possibly mine for not being completely clear to Ap when I relayed to him a message from Coral that a "presentation" of the prize referred to above was not considered by Coral to be "anything to do with the Whitechapel Society."That was clearly Coral"s opinion to which she is fully entitled and it had nothing to do with me...I simply repeated those very words of Coral"s to Ap and "out of the context in which Coral said them to me" Ap appears to have perhaps taken that to mean that "The Whitechapel Society" was some kind of "closed shop" etc.
I found out from Philip it may have been going to happen,I was involved ,I simply tried to find out "when and how"----nothing more than that and then,after a couple of internet emails I decided to "back off".
Best Wishes
Natalie
Stephen,
I am sorry to continue with this discussion on your site ,about a misunderstanding that you likewise consider to have "nothing to do with the Casebook" and not to belong here.
I promise to say no more.
Natalie |
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 4:33 am: |
|
Caz,
Then what the hell does Adrian Morris mean by "we have had our battles" with the now apparently defunct Ripperologist. I can only rely on the written histories of the split. Is this really an appropriate opportunity to be promoting the Whitechapel Society to fill a perceived void. How tacky! But of course, what would I know and I will be now told that's not it at all...
It seems to me, as I would imagine some readers here are picking up by the hushed whispers, that the vultures are now circling around the corpse. I am interested...
I don't see Dan Norder running around saying 'the rip is dead, the rip is dead' like Paul Revere claiming market share from the British encroachers.
If this is really a thorny issue to be discussing on the message board and out of deference to those wanting to keep personal issues offlist, then I'm happy to hear it by private email.
Regards
Spiro |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 925
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 7:10 am: |
|
Spiro - I am a member of the WS1888 and a subscriber to The Rip but have no particular 'standing' in either, so believe me when I say my comments are entirely objective.
I have NEVER heard a word against Ripperologist at any WS1888 meeting or in conversations I have had with its members. I know some WS1888 members used to be involved in The Rip and no longer are, but it reads to me that there actually IS no issue and, if anything, your posting above seems to be creating one!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
|
Spiro
Sergeant
Username: Auspirograph
Post Number: 40
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 7:54 am: |
|
Hi Philip,
No issue. Just curious why on a thread devoted to the demise of a major Ripper periodical, flaming and built-up comments by 'officials', with their attendant cold water attempts to diffuse, have been expressed.
It's not as if people don't notice. With no standing anywhere by now, I can be objective in saying that I am in no position to create anything as you have implied.
All the same, I do trust your reply and your generous intention to clear this up after, unfortunately, it has spilled out.
I'm in perfect agreement here with Stephen, not as a suck up, but in my dismay at the reaction and short memory of those who are incapable of recognising the sterling contribution that none other than the Ripperologist has given and will continue to do in whatever form its editors deem practical.
Spiro |
Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 3296
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 8:21 am: |
|
Christopher L.
peer reviewed???
umm...
"It's the time that every Santa has a ball
Does he ride a red nosed reindeer?"
|
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3372
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
|
Caz-
I know Coral has no link and I have no problem with Coral--bless her, she does a great job!!!!
Anyway lets all let this go shall we and see what happens......ah thats a point better send my email address as requested!!!
Hope youre ok! Have a good w/e eh!
Love Suzi xx |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2698
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 1:14 pm: |
|
....and I have no problems over the integrity of the staff of Ripperologist either!
Bless Them!
Love Nats
xx |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 308
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 1:50 pm: |
|
Whatho all,
Bloody Hell!!! We've had two Caz letters without John Omlor arguing.
Thanks to Jennifer for the link; I have now subscribed to Ripper Notes (until they make a daft decision, anyway).
It's just struck me I come from Nottingham where the Ludite Movement started; I am pleased to carry on a fine tradition.
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5361
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 2:16 pm: |
|
Ah, but Mark, the Americans think Notts County is a soap opera - sort of like Knotts Landing. 
Robert |
Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2700
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |
|
Congratulations Mark on carrying on that fine tradition!
But in true ludite fashion,as a mark of solidarity with the Ripperologist folk who are under the cosh at the moment, I am renewing my subscription , new format or not!They have some excellent researchers-
Natalie
I do go along with the tradition of generous,open to all, freely accessible research that Ap promotes so tirelessly[-there are others here too] and I have nothing but admiration for such sterling work.But some things cant be produced for nothing and ways sometimes do have to be found to make things economically viable.....
Natalie |
Judith A. Stock
Detective Sergeant
Username: Needler
Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 12:16 am: |
|
Mark and Natalie...there are those on this side of the Pond who also subscribe to the Luddite Society, and I'm a charter member! I also support the Skeptics League, the Paper Pushing Coalition, and the Flat Earth Society. Gimme a real mag anytime!! And yes, I KNOW I can print it out, but it's like Christmas every time I open that envelope and my Rip or Ripper Notes falls out onto the desk. I have every Rip published since the beginning of time, and that includes all those A4's that marked C&D's early days... looks like they'll be real collectors' items now.....sad, sad, sad. I shall miss the Rip enormously.....it just won't be the same........
Now I'm off to read a real book made of leather, boards and paper....
Cheers to all,
Judy |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2403
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 6:50 am: |
|
Hi Nats,
Many thanks for your post addressed to me, but really, I knew nothing about the issue you raised, neither is it any of my business, and it seems to have been settled now anyway.
Hi Spiro,
I have no idea why you addressed that post to me. Did you actually read my posts on the subject of the new electronic Rip? And I never even mentioned Adrian Morris! If you have a problem with what he posted, take it up with him.
I am merely a punter, same as Philip, and like him I see no 'thorny issue' here regarding the various mags. I was simply emphasising that if anyone has any queries regarding Rip's new format, they should be addressing those queries to the people currently involved in producing Rip, and that Whitechapel Society committee members won't have any answers, just as Ripper Notes and Ripperana folk won't.
I also praised all those who give up their spare time for such ventures, in equal measure. And I can't imagine that those at Rip are not making some sort of provision for current subscribers who won't, or can't, access their remaining mags electronically.
Anyway, I'm happy to suck it and see. But if you still have issues with anything specific that I have posted on this thread, fire away and I'll try to clarify even further.
Otherwise, I suggest you take it up with the person(s) concerned. I have no quarrel with anyone here.
Whatho Mark!
Who's John Omlor? 
Love,
Caz
XXX
(Message edited by caz on December 10, 2005) |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3376
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 7:21 am: |
|
No Nor me!!!!! Blimey!!!!
Whatho!!!
Suzi x |
A Subscriber
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 2:27 pm: |
|
Spiro, thank you for the response, upon which I have a few observations to make. Was I advocating 'survival of the fittest debater'? I think not. I was merely pointing out the nature of such forums and message boards. Look over the 'net at other sites and you will see the similarities.
You say "the demise of yet another Ripper print periodical", but, as far as I am aware, this is the first of any printed Ripper periodical with any meaning to disappear into the ether, surely?
The Internet is most certainly causing great change in many spheres, and research is one of the most obvious. The problem there is that many doing such research often don't know what they are looking at, often pronounce something that was discovered years ago as a 'new' find, and may embarrass themselves.
Please could you translate into simple English the sentences beginning "A consensus formed..." and ending "...opportunistic infection." I am not overly intelligent and I'd hate to embarrass myself by putting the wrong interpretation on it.
What you say of 'word search' features is true but it is a double-edged sword. Gone is the excitement of discovery after careful and esoteric practical research. Instead we must acknowledge the fact that our 'discovery' probably took little or no research skills and is being shared by 6,000,000 other 'researchers.'
I fear that the demise of the 'hard' version of Ripperologist has more to do with hard cash than with anything else. Whilst I do not think that anyone should put in much hard work for little or no reward the publication did change in nature over the years. At first it was the chatty newsletter or journal of the 'Cloak and Dagger Club' until it was 'taken over' by those who saw potential in it as a commercial venture. The Journal of the Whitechapel Society is what such a publication should be. Compiled by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. I think it should pay its own way and that the individuals producing it should not be out of pocket, but it should not be a publication that is intended to make certain individuals large cash profits. A professional magazine should make good profit to pay individuals, yes of course, but an enthusiasts' club magazine, no. You see, the 'subscriber base' of a club magazine is its members and should therefore not diminish, as long as the club remains healthy with a stable membership. What you have witnessed with Ripperologist is the failure of what was, essentially, a 'club magazine' to become a professional commercial venture.
It should be added here, I feel, that with this excellent and rightfully praised website is there really any need for an 'electronic magazine' to give us up to the minute updates on what is happening in the world of things Ripper? If the 'electronic magazine' is coming out monthly it will still be trailing after the immediate facility of an ongoing arena such as this.
The motives of individuals in producing specialized publications are as varied as the individuals are themselves. It would not be politic to delve too deeply into that here. It cannot be denied, however, that they usually invest much time and energy into their ventures. |
Adrian Morris
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, December 08, 2005 - 5:12 pm: |
|
Mr. Wolf, Thank you very much for your kind apology. It was very decent of you.
Once again, thank you.
ADRIAN MORRIS (Editor: WS1888 Journal) |
A Subscriber
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, December 09, 2005 - 6:15 am: |
|
Spiro, a question regarding the above.
What do you mean by, "Is this really an appropriate opportunity to be promoting the Whitechapel Society to fill a perceived void. How tacky!"?
I think that this really is a thorny issue. But I don't know your email address. |
David O'Flaherty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 5:05 pm: |
|
A Subscriber wrote to Spiro What you say of 'word search' features is true but it is a double-edged sword. Gone is the excitement of discovery after careful and esoteric practical research. Instead we must acknowledge the fact that our 'discovery' probably took little or no research skills and is being shared by 6,000,000 other 'researchers.'
I’m green so I don’t really consider myself a researcher, but I think that visits to libraries and archives are going to be necessary for a long time yet. Some things that are online you’d never come across in the real world. But while it’s true that you can find a lot of stuff on the Internet, digitization is far from complete; ultimately if you really want to find out things, working with libraries and archives is necessary. There is something cool about getting a headache from a microfiche reader or trying to make out someone’s impossible handwriting. You feel like you’re following in the footsteps of the real, seasoned researchers. And of course, the knowledgeable archivist remains the most valuable of guides, both via email and in person. Research is and will continue to be, I think, a combination of online skills, library skills, and that old standard, just following up on hunches.
If practical research is physical research, it won't be disappearing, IMO.
Dave |
John Savage
Chief Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 544
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 7:44 pm: |
|
Well said Dave, I could not agree more.
Rgds
John |
A Subscriber
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 7:10 am: |
|
Mr. O'Flaherty, whether or not you are green does not matter, your views are still valid and what you say of practical research is true. However, what I was stating above was in relation to Internet research and the 'new breed' of researcher who has no interest whatsoever in traditional methods of research that involve hard work, time and expense.
These 'seat-bound' researchers do make discoveries as there are so many of them at it and they are accessing all the new word-search facilities that come online. So research of these facilities is required and their work is of value.
But this is a digression, slghtly, from the main topic of this thread which is the sudden disappearance of a publication which, until this happened, had carried no warning of what was pending. The subscribers, it seems, will simply lose out and they will suffer financially as a result - they have paid for something they won't be getting. This as a result of the fact that the publication was stopped because it was running out of funds. |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
