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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1160
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 7:45 am: | 
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No don't misunderstand, I didn't solve it!
I was just thinking are we all guilty of being biased against people who say they have.
Thinking of no one in particular like people who qualify there books, the final chapter, or final solution or case closed, or enough said now something else.
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr
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Maria Giordano
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mariag
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 11:50 am: |
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I honestly think I'd like to know the solution and would welcome someone who had proved someone guilty.
The question,of course,is what constitutes proof?
Certainly, the author of the soultion would have to stand up under the severest scrutiny, both the logic of the argument and satisfying all the factual evidence.
Unfortunatly, unless someone makes a major breakthrough in finding documents or some other sort of hard evidence, the problem remains that we simply don't have enough information to prove the case conclusively.
We should be as critical as possible of any proposed solution (to this case or anything else for that matter) and let the facts speak for themselves.
Mags
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 278
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 4:20 pm: |
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Jen,
Your question is similar to one posed a while ago on the boards that wondered if most Ripperologists actually want the mystery solved.
My thought at the time (and remains so) is that YES, we all do want the mystery resolved, but we would all ALSO want to be the one who did the solving.
As for your actual question, are we biased against those who make such claims, I'm sure there is a bit of that (and at least partly for the reason given in the previous paragraph). Then, too, those of us who remain fascinated by the case have seen far too many "final solutions" that end up having more holes in them than a North Sea fishing trawler's nets. So, we quickly become jaded about such assertions.
Finally, it should be remembered that in some instances the claims for "solving" the mystery of JtR's identity are forced upon an author by the publisher who knows that a lot more books will sold with "case solved forever" on the cover rather than "a new perspective on JtR that reveals some previously unknown facts and just may bring us a bit closer to . . . blah, blah, blah."
Don. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1168
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 4:37 pm: |
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Don,
I seem to recall the thread you mention. I think we do want it solved but it just occured to me that we are mostly against books that claim this. I don't think there's anything wrong with that particularly because of what they say but i just wondered if these people get our backs up before we read their delightful books!
Don, if you were to tell me you'd solved it i wouldn't be bothered (well natuarally i would be delighted you had solved it i mean i wouldnt be bothered i had not!) as long as you had some evidence, perhaps this is where these books fall down in some cases.
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr
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Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 678
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 5:07 pm: |
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Hi Jen
I think we would all like to have the case solved, but I seriously doubt that at this day and time, we will get our wish.
So many authors have been disingenuous in their representation of the facts, that I think we are all a little hesitant to accept many of their conclusions. Making the suspect fit the facts is simply not acceptable.
I would like to have the case solved to a legal certainty, but at this point I can't even make a case for detaining any of the suspects on suspicion.
All The Best
Gary |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3189
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 5:11 pm: |
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Part of me wants it solved, part of me doesn't. But I'm afraid I'm a real sad case, because even if someone solved it, i.e. proved JTR's identity, I'd still want to know where he lived, what routes he took, did he write the graffito, did he send the letters, why did he do it, what was his chikdhood like, etc etc etc.
Robert |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 333
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 10:59 pm: |
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I would want to know a lot more about the individual. Why did he do this? What made him tick? What special skills did he have that allowed him to elude the police?
Our best hope of getting the answer before Judgment Day, would be 1) discovery of new evidence tucked away in someones attic, or 2) the invention of some new presently unimaginable technology. |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1099
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 3:21 am: |
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Hi,
I hope one day someone will produce some proof against a realistic individual, however time has almost run out if not already so.
Personally i would like the relation of Barnett who P Harrison interviewed for his book[ if still alive] to present the clippings that Barnett allegedly left after his death, one could then test them to find out if these cuttings had been in existance for a long period of time, or had only recently been aquired from a old newspapers publication co.
I Also [ again if still alive] would like for Reg hutchinson allegedly son of George to tell all that he knew about his father , and not just prompted comments.
The clippings if proven to have been original and had obviously not been stored in mint condition enviroment, would then suggest to me that as The tabram murder was included, the original owner of these items ie Barnett had forseen that that murder was to be the start of a series, which nobody else had predicted.
That in addition to all the other relevant details about this suspect would increase the likelyhood that he was the person responsible for the murders.
Regards Richard. |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 6:24 am: |
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Robert,
that doesn't make you a sad case (well if it does then i am one too!)
Gary,
I agree - I'm damned if i know who did it!
Jenni
ps i would prefer Patsy book if it were simply called portrait of a killer.
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr
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Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1386
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 11:52 am: |
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Don,
Finally, it should be remembered that in some instances the claims for "solving" the mystery of JtR's identity are forced upon an author by the publisher who knows that a lot more books will sold with "case solved forever" on the cover rather than "a new perspective on JtR that reveals some previously unknown facts and just may bring us a bit closer to . . . blah, blah, blah."
They're the books I try to avoid so plan 'A' backfires there !
Plan 'B' ?
Monty
Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice
Check out my new weapon, weapon of choice- Jack the Ripper
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Simon Owen
Inspector
Username: Simonowen
Post Number: 189
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 12:40 pm: |
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Reg Hutchinson died in the late 1990s I'm afraid. |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 682
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:25 pm: |
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Hi Robert
If the desire to know everything about what made JTR tick makes us a sad case, then I'm right there with you. What I would really like is a photograph. I want to look into the eyes of Jack The Ripper.
All The Best
Gary
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Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 279
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 1:41 pm: |
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Monty,
You are an "informed consumer," the bane of marketing firms everywhere, and I would guess that you are not one to spring for "new and improved" -- especially when it only means they changed the color of the label.
Sadly (from several perspectives), the ripperologist market is rather small so publishers will continue to seduce the general reading public with books that promise "No more doubts, here is Jack the Ripper dead to rights!"
And Gary -- you might well be disappointed if you ever did get the opportunity to look at a photo of Jack and stare into his eyes. Hollywood can make villians look quite lurid, but in real life evil is often quite banal and ordinary looking. That is one reason serial killers get away with what they do for so long -- they (gulp!) look like the rest of us.
Don. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3201
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 2:15 pm: |
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Maybe I'm not sad, then. My nephew says I am, but that could be because I don't give him 20 games of pool a day.
PS Gary, any luck with Grainger's records?
Robert |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 683
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 3:55 pm: |
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Hi Robert and Don
The archivist at the Cork County Workhouse keeps telling me he will send them-but so far nothing. I may have to go over and make a public spectacle of myself outside the building housing the records.
Don- I imagine if we could see the true face of the Ripper, we really would see a reflection of ourselves. I do imagine though, that he would not be the drooling, raving maniac that some believe him to be. Now it is time for ARFA to come up with a lost chest housing JTR's murder instruments, desiccated trophies from the victims and a picture of the killer.
All The Best
Gary |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3203
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 3:59 pm: |
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Gary, tell him there's a crate of Guinness in it for him (the archivist, I mean, not Arfa).
Robert |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 335
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:06 pm: |
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I think there is room for variance. Ted Bundy looked very normal. Charles Manson had a perfectly demonic stare.
Of course Manson gathered a group of wierdos around him and formed a cult
Bundy operated alone more like Jack would have.
If he had really looked savage they wouldnt have gone with him.
(Message edited by diana on October 13, 2004) |
Gary Alan Weatherhead
Chief Inspector
Username: Garyw
Post Number: 684
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:13 pm: |
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Robert (or should I say Charles as Leanne has renamed you?)
The Guinness might get ARFA motivated as well as the archivist.
Best
Gary |
Donald Souden
Inspector
Username: Supe
Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:32 pm: |
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Gary,
Now that you mention it, I think I did see Arfa recently at a flea market frantically flipping through stacks of 19th C photos.
Don. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3206
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 4:36 pm: |
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Gary, if it motivates Arfa to post a picture of "Jack" just explain to Arfa : awfully sorry, the Guinness was a hoax.
Sir Robert or Sir Charles, I don't mind - both top-ranking cops. 
Robert |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1388
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 6:44 am: |
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Don,
'New and improved'?
Surely its either new or its improved.
How can it be 'and' improved,
But yes, I take your point
Monty
Don't be shocked by the tone of my voice
Check out my new weapon, weapon of choice- Jack the Ripper
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Jennifer D. Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 1180
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2004 - 7:33 am: |
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Monty,
well it's new so it's an improvement as you couldn't get it before.
so therefore it is both new and improved!
Jenni
"Think things, not words." - O.W. Holmes jr
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Barry Kay
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 8:47 am: |
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hi Jennifer,
everybody has a favourite suspect, mine is Kosminski.Not because i favour the evidence,purley, bacause my family lived in westmoreland road about the turn of the century or just before and lived in walworth from the start of records.i still think that he has some compelling atributes.the point is that we can all think thatwe know the answere.But , the attrction is that we cant. |
Dale Huddlesceugh
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:53 pm: |
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I've been revisting my interest in the case after a recent visit to London and have been reading various different books from the library - Paul Begg, Paul Feldman, Melvyn Harris etc etc. I've only just discovered this site, too. I would be happy to accept any conclusive solution were one ever to appear, although I'm sure that there would still be some people who would not, however irrefutable the evidence. I think that a lot of interesting ideas and research have been discarded too easily because the a particular author's ultimate conclusion has been discredited. That said, I really would question who is in a position to do the discrediting. Something I've noticed throughout the literature and on this site is a certain sniffiness on the part of so-called "serious Ripperologists", the usual suspects who all name-check each other in their books. Paul Begg's "The Facts" purports to be objective and it is certainly the best and MOST objective overview I've read to date, but still contains many examples of authorial opinion rather than facts and, in my view, some rather flawed logic in places. When the editorial on this site informs us that "most serious Ripperologists think X", I'm not inclined to attach much significance to it at all. After all, Ripperology is a field where no-one as yet has conclusively proved themselves to have the correct solution and by definition the vast majority, including many "serious Ripperologists" who have devoted large chunks of their lives to the subject, must be totally wrong. |
D. Radka
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 1:36 pm: |
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Mr. Huddlesceugh wrote:
"I would be happy to accept any conclusive solution were one ever to appear, although I'm sure that there would still be some people who would not, however irrefutable the evidence."
>>Mr. Huddlesceugh, by the way you write you seem just the sort of critically-minded fellow who'd enjoy "Alternative Ripperology: Questioning the Whitechapel Murders." I have posted a copyrighted summary of it, 16 pages in length, on this web site, in the Dissertations section. Please let me know if you have any questions!
David
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Walter Swinton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 06, 2005 - 11:54 am: |
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I for one would really like the Whitechapel murders to be solved, but frankly, I doubt they ever will be.
Short of some startling new documentary evidence surfacing (e.g. a genuine 'Ripper Diary') then I think we can look forward to many more years of endless speculation, the odd new book claiming to be the 'final solution' appearing every couple of years, and an ever-lengthening list of 'suspects' who have some sort of tenuous connection to 1880's Whitechapel.
I have been a 'Ripperologist' off and on for 30 years and lived and worked in Whitechapel for many of those. I know the area well and can pretty well imagine what a grim and dangerous place it would have been 117 years ago (it's still pretty grim and dangerous now!).
To me, the most amazing thing about these murders is the way they fascinate people all these years later.
There have been many more bloody and brutal unsolved crimes since, yet 'Jack' seems to have taken on some kind of iconic stature. He's a cipher. A metaphore for all that's evil and all the more powerful because we'll never know his name or see his face.
I don't find any 'romance' in him or his ghastly work and consequently find some aspects of this site a bit disturbing. Jack was nothing but a misogynistic brute and a bloody psychopath. There are lots of those about. Jack just hit the big time and maybe got away with it.
For what it's worth, I have two theories, neither of which will be satisfactory to hardened Ripperites I'm sure:
1) Jack didn't actually evade the police at all. They caught him, but could not publicly bring him to trial for political reasons (damage to the establishment, the monarchy etc.). He was tried and executed in secret and all documentation of these proceedings was carefully expunged from the public record.
2) (much more likely) Jack was not an important public figure, a great artist, a minor member of the aristocracy, but an anonymous working-class man, local to the area, who was teetering on the verge of insanity due to drink, disease, relationship breakdown, or a combination of these. He came from nowhere and went back to nowhere, probably doing away with himself. There won't be any photos or diaries.
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Stef Kukla
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 9:23 pm: |
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It will never be OFFICIALLY solved. Too many 'highly-respected' [for the moment, anyway] authors will forever lose their dinner-tickets, & more besides; for each and every one of them will lose more face than Kelly did [& probably in much less time too].
Rather than a genuine quest for the truth, it's become an entertaining passtime for some, a going concern for others, and - for a (thankfully) SMALL remainder - a means of starting fights.
Let's face it, if he ever WERE revealed [if he hasn't already been], we wouldn't know what to do with ourselves anymore [or our huge collections of Ripper books].
There is only ONE SURE WAY to avoid the horrors of such a monstrous social collapse:
DESTROY THE CREDIBILITY OF ANY HALF-DECENT SUSPECT! SABOTAGE ANY WAY YOU CAN!!
And you must have absolutely no sense of shame; for sooner or later, you may have to resort to the grand, intellectual art of name-calling. This 'shame' can be particularly crippling for you if YOUR theory/case happens to be noticeably thin & crap compared to the ones you heckle. |
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