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Matt
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 10:56 pm: |       |
Why is Abberline's statement "I know and my superiors know certain facts."and that the Ripper "...wasn't a butcher, Yid or foreign skipper...you'd have to look for him not at the bottom of London society at the time but a long way up" written off so quickly? What else did he say that would cause you to treat this with skepticism? |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 744
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:16 pm: | |
I was transcribing a long article about Chapman/Klosowski today and thought the extract below about Abberline's thoughts on this suspect might be of interest:
Chris S
From Atlanta Constitution 5 April 1903
From an article entitled "Jack the Ripper To Die On The Gallows April 6"
Since Klosowski's conviction. Scotland yard, whose officials never have taken any stock in the cries that the Ripper was dead, or a lunatic, but who always have hoped to wipe off a stain on their record by nabbing him, have been working qiietly on the clue thus gained.
It is F.G. Abberline, former chief detective inspector of the Scotland yard forces, who now declares publicly his conviction that Klosowski was the Ripper. And ex Inspector Abberline is the exact man who might be expected to take the greatest interest in this part of the murderer's record, as he it was who had charge of criminal investigations at the time of the Whitechapel crimes.
Briefly, these are the reasons which the retired sleuth hound has just given to the present commissioner of police for his belief that Klosowski's arrival in London and residence in Whitechapel was coincidental with the beginning and duration of the Ripper murders.
Then, there is the circumstance, which was brought out at the murderer's trial, that he studied medicine in Russia and was once an assistant surgeon, One of the features of the Ripper murders was the horrible precision with which the assassin's victims were mutilated - which at the time gave the idea that the criminal must be a physician.
At Klosowski's trial, too, it was stated that, when he lived in Whitechapel, he was in the habit of wearing a peaked cap. Such a cap was worn by the Ripper. The Ripper, like Klosowski, was a man of middle height, and it is stated also that each of the few persons who claimed to have seen the Whitechapel murderer, described him as a "foreign looking man."
There is also the circumstance that Klosowski once attempted to kill the only one of his wives who escaped from him alive by attacking her with a knife. But what has impressed ex Inspector Abberline most strongly of all is the fact that toward the end of 1888 Klosowski went to the United States to live. For one of the most sensational developments of the Ripper mystery was that, shortly after the murders ceased in Whitechapel, a series of crimes of the same sort began in America. At the time it was supposed that some American pervert merely had been inspired to imitate the London assassin example.
There is still another link in the chain with which, as the author of the Whitechapel murders, the ex Scotland yarder is seeking to forge about the Pole, Klosowski, and curiously enough, it also is particularly of interest to Americans.
"While the coroner was investigating one of the East End murders," says ex Inspector Abberline, "he told the jury a very queer story. You will remember that the divisional surgeon, who made the post mortem examination, not only spoke of the skilfullness with which the knife had been used, but stated that there was overwhelming evidence to show that the criminal had so mutilated the body that he could possess himself of one of the organs. The coroner, in commenting on this, said that he had been told by the subcurator of the pathological museum connected with one of the great medical schools that some few months before an American had called upon him and asked him to procure a number of specimens. He stated his willingness to give $100 for each. Although the strange visitor was told that his wish was impossible of fulfillment, he still urged his request. It was known that the request was repeated at another institution of a similar character in London. The coroner at the time said: 'Is it not possible that a knowledge of this demand may have inspired some abandoned wretch to possess himself of the specimens? It seems beyond belief that such inhuman wickedness could enter into the mind of any man; but, unfortunately, our criminal annals prove thatevery crime is possible!'
"It is a remarkable thing," Mr. Abberline pointed out, "that after the Whitechapel horrors America should have been the place where a similar kind of murder began, as though the miscreant had not fully supplied the demand of the American agent."
It was only yesterday that the veteran Scotland yarder's remarkable theory was made public, and at this time it cannot be said what steps will be taken toward confirming it. When convicted of the poisoning of his three wives, Klosowski, who so far had assumed a careless attitude, broke down completely and wept as sentence was being passed upon him. His lawyer who visited him in the condemned cell the other day, reported that the criminal was employed in writing out a lengthy statement of some kind, so that there is a possibility that Klosowski has decided to reveal himself as one of the most famous of modern criminals and is the man of all men upon whom the London police have, since the commission of the ghastly series of butcheries in Whitechapel, benn most anxious to lay their hands.
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Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 280
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 1:05 pm: | |
Abberline is an enigma. Why he should consider Klosowski not only a good suspect, but without doubt the murderer, is beyond me and frankly damages his credence in my estimation.
Aside from considering the differences in the MO, look at the "evidence" against Klosowski that supposedly "convinces" Abberline! He wears a peaked cap. Big deal, so did a lot of other people and, besides, some witnesses describe a man in a billycock hat. He is and looks foreign. So is and does the majority of Whitechapel. He is of medium (average) height. So is, by definition, most of mankind! Did more Ripper murders occur in America after 1888? Aside from the possibility of Carrie Brown I am not aware of a series of possible candidates for Ripper murders in the US at the time. That leaves us only with his medical knowledge and proximity to the murders as "evidence" against him.
Either Abberline knew more than he was saying or he just got carried away with a desire to see the case solved. I think probably the latter.
Andy S.
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Inspector
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 465
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 1:38 pm: | |
Hi.
Chapman is a no/no. He was only twenty three years old at the time of these murders, his method of murder was completely different, also where did the idea come from that he was of medium height?.
He was described as a very frail and small man, even with a knife, he would have a job overpowering Kelly.
Richard. |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 745
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 1:50 pm: | |
In the article above I was interested in this passage:
Briefly, these are the reasons which the retired sleuth hound has just given to the present commissioner of police for his belief that Klosowski's arrival in London and residence in Whitechapel was coincidental with the beginning and duration of the Ripper murders.
So Abberline did not just announce his theory via press interviews but also gave an account of it to the then Commissioner. Anyone know who the Commissioner would have been in 1903? It is interesting to wonder if this was his own initiative as he felt this "evidence" to be important or he was approached by the met for his thoughts on Chapman.
chris |
Andrew Spallek
Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 282
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 2:01 pm: | |
Chris,
I noticed that too. Also, look carefully at what it says: Abberline gave the current commissioner his reasons for believing that Klosowski/Chapman was resident in Whitechapel at the beginning and for the duration of the Ripper murders. This seems to indicate that the MET suspected Klosowski as JTR and went to Abberline to confirm that the suspect was in the right place at the right time.
Who knows? By this time the names of Klosowski, Kosminski, Kaminsky, etc. may have all become muddled in Abberline's memory.
Andy S.
(Message edited by aspallek on December 09, 2003) |
Natalie Severn
Sergeant
Username: Severn
Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 4:18 pm: | |
Andy/everyone,I have often wondered why Aberline didnt dig up one of the witnesses to see if any of them recognised Chapman.In fact everything seems to just hang in the air.Maybe it was a belated attemt to be top dog viz a viz Jack and get himself some publicity for a book project.Natalie |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 203
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 4:50 pm: | |
Hi, Chris
Ultimate Companion's biography of Colonel Sir Edward Bradford in the Notes section has him as Chief Commissioner of the Met. Police from 1890-1903. I don't know which month he retired or who followed him, though.
Cheers,
Dave |
Scott Nelson
Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 10:26 pm: | |
Abberline could have been referring to Assistant Commissioner Macnaqhten's 1894 Memorandum, written when Macnaghten was the MET Chief Constable. Commissioner Edward Bradford is not known to have written a report on a JtR suspect, although if he did, it could likely have been about Kosminski, not Klosowski. |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 747
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 8:40 am: | |
Hi Scott
I think the Commissioner in question is unlikely to be Macnaghten as the article says:
Briefly, these are the reasons which the retired sleuth hound has just given to the present commissioner of police
the "has just" suggests the Commissioner must be whoever it was in 1903
regards
Chris
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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 748
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 8:40 am: | |
Hi Scott
I think the Commissioner in question is unlikely to be Macnaghten as the article says:
Briefly, these are the reasons which the retired sleuth hound has just given to the present commissioner of police
the "has just" suggests the Commissioner must be whoever it was in 1903
regards
Chris
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robin reitsma
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 5:36 pm: | |
Hi, i am a newbie at this but have become curiously intriuged by a murder that has eluded capture for over a century. sureley he is long dead but does anyone know where i might get a glimpse at inspector abbelines original reports on the murders? |
CB
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 8:22 pm: | |
Hi all'
I dont know if anyone is still posting on this subject but I dont think Abberline got the names of Kozminski,Kazminski and Klowsowski mixed up It is an interesting and obvious thought. Abberline also made the statement we never believed thos stories that the ripper was locked up or commited suicide. Kozminski was locked up by the time Abberline made his statement concerning Chapman. He was aware of the Mcnnaghten thaughts on Kozminski and Druitt.
Getting back to the original quote that is strange. I do not think that Capman would have been considerd high society back in 1888. Just for fun read the Pall Mall Gazzett interview and substitute the name Chapman with Tumblety everything he says about Chapman could be applied with Tumblety.
All the best,CB |
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