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John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 7:55 am: |       |
Hello Marie & Rob & All,
Marie: Your thinking on a cover-up using Catherine Eddowes is thought provoking (and I really do not want to sound like I'm patronising you; because you have said you do not think Druitt was a possible candidate as JTR).
My thinking was that Catherine was NOT being used as a stalking horse by police (or anyone).
Her Bright's disease kidney suggests to me that the very first thing she would want on leaving the police station, was a drink.
Being street-wise ,her statement that she'd get a hiding when she got home, was designed to semaphore to the police she would not be going out soliciting to get the price of a drink or a bed.
Despite police instructions from HQ, she was not followed, I believe,and as alcohol is addictive, I believe she was fairly desparate at that late hour to secure the price of a drink, perhaps prompting her to relax her natural defences...
For those interested, STEVE WHITE was born on May 26, 1854; joined police, October 11 1875; Retired October 15,1900.
He was stationed at Lambeth Division from 1875 to August 4, 1881 when he was transferred to Whitechapel Division;where he remained till moved to Hampstead Division, December 1891; returned to Whitechapel Division April 24, 1893, where he remained as Local Inspector till his retirement.
He died around June,1919. |
Robert Charles Linford
Sergeant
Username: Robert
Post Number: 36
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 8:41 am: | |
Hi John
Thanks for White info. Yes, he certainly was no dunce - he was promoted to Sgt almost instantly on joining - more quickly that Abberline. On the other hand, he twice in one day allowed the two "private detectives" to whisk Packer away from him, so perhaps his longish wait to be made Inspector might have been down to a perceived lack of assertiveness?
Re the two Fosters, I don't know if you saw it, but there was an article in "Ripperologist" Oct 2002, about Supt Foster, by Bernard Brown, Editor of the Metropolitan Police History Society magazine. Although Mr Brown mentions Foster's family, including one of his sons, Henry Edgar Foster who Mr Brown says was a Chief Inspector in charge of Cloak Lane police station at the time of Foster's funeral in 1897, he simply calls the surveyor Foster a "namesake". So I guess, from that, that they probably weren't related (or at least not very closely).
On the surveyor's sketch being from point B, in the Ultimate Sourcebook there's a contemporary sketch of the corner done from more or less the same position. Perhaps it was just a convenient point for the surveyor to do it from, as it afforded a full view of the corner, with Mitre Street on the far right.
Robert |
Robert Clack
Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 48
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 2:45 pm: | |
Hi Everyone
I got a copy of the latest issue of "Ripperologist" today and it contained a newspaper article about Stephen White and is worth quoting here. The article was submited by Chris Scott, many thanks Chris.
News of the World
14 October 1900
C.I.D MAN RETIRES
Inspector Stephen White of the Criminal Investigation Department, retired from the service on Friday. He joined the force 26 years ago, and was first stationed in the D Division, at Kennington. His abillities were soon recognised, and he became a member of the old detective force. Among a few of the important captures made by Mr. White were those of the dynamitards, Cunningham and Burton, at the Tower of London, at the time of the explosion there, for which services he was rewarded and commended by the Home Office. In 1879 he discovered a Fenian arsenal in the New Cut, Lambeth and captured the proprietor who received a long term of penal servitude. He has had, perhaps a greater experience of murders than any other officer in the department, being engaged in the whole of the 'Jack the Ripper' crimes in the East-End. He was also connected with the notorious cases of Harry Alt, who murdered a German baker in Turner-Street; Sullivan, the St. George's murderer; Cronin, the Limehouse assassin; Ronan, who committed murder in Angel Court, Whitechapel; Seaman, who killed an aged Jew and his house keeper in Turner-Street;Karaczewski, the pole, who shot a man and woman dead in Brick-Lane; Kate Marshall, who killed her sister in Dorset-Street. in the very house where the last Ripper murder was committed. Keepers of private stills, which, at one time, were very common in the district, had good reason to fear Mr. White, his record of the last year alone being 16 prosecutions.
Not sure what 'private stills' are unless it was a typing error. Inspector Abberline was also directly involved in the arrests of Cunningham and Burton. I think this article proves Stephen White was a very capable and good officer. And from what John wrote about Stephen White's life in a previous post and this article, it seems unlikely he was involved in Monro's secret police.
Marie, I am usually in two minds whether Martha Tabram was a Ripper victim or not, but Major Henry Smith mentions in his autobiography about sending men out in plain clothes during August. Major Henry Smith veiws are normally unreliable and discredited by authors, but you have found proof to back up one of his claims, I think you should get early promotion.
The Metropolitan Police didn't believe Tabram was a victim of Jack the Ripper at the time.
I except what you say about John Kelly, but I just can't understand why she would go so far in the opposite direction to where she lived. And if she was going to Fashion Street she would have to go through Dorset Street or Whites Row, and there were three pubs in Dorset street.
All the best
Rob |
Marie Finlay
Detective Sergeant
Username: Marie
Post Number: 92
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
Hi all,
John Ruffels, you posted: "her statement that she'd get a hiding when she got home, was designed to semaphore to the police she would not be going out soliciting to get the price of a drink or a bed"
Actually, I think you might well be right about this.
Just to clarify (because I'm not sure if there's a misunderstanding)- I'm arguing against Eddowes being part of a set-up to capture Jack. Thanks for your kind comments, John.
Robert, you posted: "Major Henry Smith mentions in his autobiography about sending men out in plain clothes during August. Major Henry Smith veiws are normally unreliable and discredited by authors, but you have found proof to back up one of his claims, I think you should get early promotion."
Beginner's luck, for me! I've been studying this case for a year, and I didn't know that about Major Smith.
It is very interesting, and puts a different light on things, somewhat. I wonder if I can find anything else to back this up. It's quite tantalizing.
Regarding Eddowes, I've started another thread about her claim to know Jack...
|
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 7:03 pm: | |
Hello All,
Congratulations Chris Scott in locating such an illuminating NEWS OF THE WORLD mini-biography of
Steve White.From this several things can be distilled;James Munro has been closely associated with the investigation of dynamitards and Fenians
and was rewarded for saving the Houses of Parliament and Queen Victoria.So it looks to me, as if Steve White - at least in his early career
was closely connected with the activities of the
"Special Irish Branch", as it was known early on.
If very senior police believed Anarchists were responsible for the Ripper's ghastly campaign,who better to enrol in secret investigations than previously pedigreed Special Branch investigator,
and Whitechapel-located detective,Steve White.
So, you see, rather than diluting my enthusiasm for Steve White being involved in a Mitre Square stake-out for Munro's Special Branch,this obituary
has slightly,but only slightly, reinforced it!
As for the dotted line on Surveyor Foster's sketch of Mitre Square from the body (Mark "A') back to the sketcher's vantage point (Mark "B"),
I will admit that, yes, Robert, this only indicates the point the sketch was made from...
But.P.C.Pearse -who resided in Mitre Square-said he could see the body clearly from his bedroom window.That is, he could see it after he was roused at 2,20 a.m.I still suspect police botching.
I also think some official papers concerning the Mitre Square murder investigation have gone missing.
I think I read somewhere the Coroner's notebook has survived and is in a London library somewhere.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Note too the comment in the article Steve White was involved in investigating ALL the Ripper murders.This would include Mitre Square. |
Robert Clack
Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 4:56 am: | |
Hi John
The Coroner's notebook you mention is presumably the one showing the sketches we've been discussing. The location of that book is according to the acknowledgement in Paul Begg's 'The uncensored Facts', the Department of Forensic Medicine, The London Hospital Medical College.
I believe a lot of the City Police files were destroyed durring the second world war, but I am sure some were taken by souvenir hunters or personally destroyed like the Metropolitan files.
Rob |
Peter R. A. Birchwood
Police Constable
Username: Pbirchwood
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 6:03 am: | |
Rob:
A "Private still" is equipment to produce unlicensed alcohol: the equivalent of a Shebbeen. Isn't it interesting that the list of crimes and criminals in this piece reads exactly as though Mr. Sherlock Holmes was reading from his case-notes? |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 10:51 am: | |
Hi Peter, Marie, John, Gary everyone
Peter, thanks for the info, I thought 'private stills' might be a Victorian euphemism for pornographic pictures, (don't ask).
I agree, Stephen White certainly had an interesting career in the police force, does anyone know anything about Ronan, who committed murder in Angel Court?
Gary, Melville Macnaughten didn't come to his conclusion about M. J. Druitt till after 1891 and before 1894.
Marie, I'll concede the City Police, didn't follow Catharine Eddowes, but I still think there's something odd about her murder, but I'll continue this on the thread you started yesterday.
Rob |
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 6:23 pm: | |
Hello Everyone,
See, there are clues out there;- well, if you can count information viewed through the prism of policemen's egos;journalistic need for colour; and just plain human frailty- so I think this has been a useful thread.
I'm really pleased Marie has begun a Catherine Eddowes thread nearby.
Have you all read the item on Casebook about books printed by a Mr Sheldon(?), I think, which deal with individual Ripper victims?
He has published one on Eddowes.In it you will see the correct spelling of her christian name is: CATHERINE.(Sorry for the vagueness of the author's name).
Really sharp message board readers will spot where I switched back from CATHARINE to CATHERINE
recently.
I forgot to thank Robert Clack for pointing out Chris Scott's article in therecent"Ripperologist"
on Sergeant Steve White.Well done Rob.Excellent work.
Now, some of you may discern a modicum of obsessiveness in my preoccupation with Steve White's story...So, lets make it even more so...
Re-reading the NEWS OF THE WORLD article about Steve White's retirement, it is interesting to see the journalist (no doubt, quoting the Great Detective)as saying the murder by Kate Marshall occurred in the very house "where the last Ripper murder was committed".
So it seems White subscribed to the theory Mary Kelly was the last victim.
James Munro was head of Special Branch when the
dynamitards caused an explosion in the Tower Of London.He immediately ordered the gates to be locked thereby trapping one bomber inside (Cunningham).White claims an important involvement in that very case, so he and Munro must have known each other well.
It has always interested me the way Munro and his
later appointee and friend, Macnaghten, and also, it seems, Steve White, appear to subscribe to the Druitt as Ripper theory.
Was itWhite's important siting and describing of the Ripper suspect which went on to influence the
opinion of Munro and Macnaghten?
Did his siting make them take stock, and review the vast paperwork, looking through the witness statements for a middle-class Anglo-Saxon instead of, (or rather as well as), a Continental Jew? Creating a list of suspects numbering seven, subsequently reduced to three?
Were they looking for Druitt when he was found drowned? |
Marie Finlay
Detective Sergeant
Username: Marie
Post Number: 99
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 8:59 am: | |
Hi all,
John, yes I did read that Neal Shelden has published books on some of the victims- and I saw that he has one out about Eddowes.
I haven't read it yet, but it's on my list of 'must have' literature, and I'm looking forward to reading it soon.
I've changed my spelling back to 'Catherine', on your advice. I was using 'Catharine', because I thought that was the spelling on her birth certificate. |
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 21
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 7:03 pm: | |
Hello Marie, Rob and everyone,
Thanks for correcting my hasty rudeness in not putting Neal Shelden's correct name, Marie.
Yes, I thought it was CATHARINE too, till Neal tracked down family documents.
It just goes to show how we Ripperologists are all slaves to the written word.Its good that sometimes, someone pops in an urban legend, a rumour or-best of all- a bit of good old local "goss". |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 54
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 6:07 pm: | |
Hi everyone
Food for thought.
P.C Harvey in his inquest testimony states that on arriving in Mitres Square just after her body was discovered stated "Private Individuals were sent for other Constables, arriving almost immediately."
Who were these private individuals? and were they there when P.C Harvey arrived at Mitre Square?
Rob |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 11:55 pm: | |
Hi everyone,
From the biography of Detective Sergeant White
that was given by Robert Clack on April 17, 2003,
from THE NEWS OF THE WORLD, there was a list of
other investigations of murders involving White.
I have located one of these: the murders of Mr.
John Goodman Levy and Sarah Gale by William
Seaman during the Saturday of the Easter Weekend
of April 1896. Seaman (real name William King)
was a burglar, and he was captured by the young
Constable Frederick Wensley. Wensley describes
the incident in his memoirs, FORTY YEARS OF
SCOTLAND YARD (Garden City, New York: Garden City
Publishing Co., Inc., 1930, 1931), Chapter III:
"William Seaman - Murderer", pp. 21 - 31.
The chapter mentions that White was Wensley's
senior officer (p. 25):
"My immediate chief, Stephen White, the local
detective inspector, had a look at him [Seaman]
and was able to recount some fragment of his history, which were amplified by a glance at the
records. He was a convict on license -- a "ticket
-of-leave man" -- known to the Convict Supervision
Office as William Seaman."
That is the only reference to White in the
memoirs. Seaman and Wensley had a real struggle
in Seaman's attempt to flee the Levy house after
the murders. He was captured, and subsequently
condemned to death. Seaman is recalled (if at all) for being part of a rare triple executions
with Milsom and Fowler, the Muswell Hill Burglary
murderers. Fowler had tried to strangle Milsom
(who had informed on him, in a vain attempt to
save himself) in the Old Bailey, and there were
more than a few policemen around at the scaffold
to prevent a similar scene. But Seaman was put
between them. As a result, when Seaman saw
what was going on, he said, "This is the first
time I have ever been a bl--dy peacemaker!!".
Usually the story ends there, but in the memoirs
of Edward Abinger (the barrister who defended
Fowler), he claims that Fowler's sense of humor
was encouraged by Seaman's comment. Fowler said
"This is the first time I have ever been a bl--dy
penitent!!".
Jeff |
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 6:46 am: | |
Robert,
Hello. You ask who the other constables at Mitre Square were.Who arrived later.The record suggests George Morris the wharehouse caretaker was sent by P C Watkins to fetch help.He met P C Harvey who arrived rather promptly.I have no idea who these others were he mentioned.
Another thought has just occurred to me concerning the Coroner's sketches of Eddowes and Mitre Square .Does the Forensic Department at London Hospital Medical College have a comprehensive inventory of the contents of that rather large JTR file discovered by Sam Hardy in the Hospital Basement in 1966?
And if so, would some Alpha Personality Ripperologist who is handy, be able to obtain their permission to publish that inventory on the Casebook site?
I did not notice a list of that file being detailed in the excellent " A To Z of Jack The Ripper".I'd do it but I'm not close.
Rather good idea Jeff Bloomfield, looking at Steve White's other cases to see if the press reports, or books on these crimes, mention more biographical detail of White.Congratulations . |
Chris Phillips
Sergeant
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 42
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 1:28 pm: | |
The AIM25 website has a page on the London Hospital's JTR file:
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/search2?coll_id=3936&inst_id=23
It includes the following:
Administrative/Biographical history: Edward Larkins, a Custom House official, became interested in the Whitechapel murders, and the identification of the murderer. He came to the conclusion that the most likely suspect was a student at the London Hospital Medical College, probably because of to the close proximity of the Hospital to the murder sites and the possibility that the murderer had some anatomical knowledge.
CONTENT
Scope and content/abstract: Papers relating to the Whitechapel Murders, comprising evidence collected by Edward Larkins of the Custom House on the possible identification of the Whitechapel Murderer ('Jack the Ripper'), 1888-1891, comprising statistical information, including copies of Custom House and Home Office documents, particularly relating to ship movements; copy letters from Larkins; letter from Larkins to Munro-Scott, Warden of the London Hospital Medical College, concerning his research into student records at the London Hospital, 1891; note by Munro-Scott concerning Larkin's research, 1890; contemporary photograph of the 'Lusk letter', sent to Mr George Lusk, Chairman of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee, with a portion of kidney, 1888; contemporary photograph of the 'Openshaw letter' and envelope, sent to Dr Openshaw, Pathological Curator of the London Hospital Museum, signed Jack the Ripper, 1888; papers collected by Professor Francis Camps relating to the Whitechapel murders ('Jack the Ripper'), 1888-1971, namely papers concerning the Mitre Square murder (Catherine Eddowes), 1888, comprising plan and elevation of Mitre Square showing the position of the body; plan of the surrounding area; sketch of the body at the crime scene; mortuary sketches of the body; photographs of drawings of the body of Catherine Eddowes (victim of the Whitechapel Murderer) by Dr T Gordon Brown, 1898; press cuttings and reprints on the Whitechapel Murder 1888, 1971.
...
Publication note: 'More About Jack the Ripper' Professor Francis Camps London Hospital Gazette Clinical and Scientific Supplement vol LXIX no 1 1966.
Chris Phillips
|
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 3:05 pm: | |
Hi John, Jeffrey
Jeffrey, thanks for the info about Stephen White.
John, actually I was more interested in the private individuals, who P.C Harvey sent for other Constables. Were they there when P.C Harvey arrived? or just after? How did they hear about the murder? P.C Watkins didn't blow his whistle. So were they may have just been passing through. They could also be the unidentified witnesses from St Jame's Place.
Rob |
Robert Charles Linford
Sergeant
Username: Robert
Post Number: 47
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 7:11 pm: | |
Hi Rob
From what Watkins said at the inquest it seems that, bizarrely, the City police didn't carry whistles. But Morris ran out of the square blowing his whistle, so maybe people responded to that.
It's a bit odd that PC Pearce wasn't called until
2.20. Didn't they know he was there?
Robert |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 11:44 am: | |
Hi Robert
You're probably right, a pity P.C. Harvey wasn't clearer at the inquest on whether they were there when he got there, or arrived just after.
I don't know where in the City P.C. Pearce was stationed, but he didn't at the inquest say the name of the Constable who called him, so he may not have been known to the police in that area. Even odder is that P.C. Pearce didn't hear Morris's whistle, I presume it would have been louder than usual because of the echo.
P.C. Neil after discovering Mary Ann Nichols body, signalled P.C. Thain with his lamp. He had a whistle, it was standard issue.
Rob |
Robert Charles Linford
Sergeant
Username: Robert
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 7:42 pm: | |
Hi Rob
The Ultimate Sourcebook carries a report of Watkins's testimony, from "The Times" of Oct 5th : "Witness remained by the side of the body till the arrival of Police-constable Holland. No one was there with witness till Holland arrived..." so I suppose that Harvey and Holland got there first, then almost immediately afterwards came the private individuals, who were then sent for constables, these arriving within a minute or so as they were already heading for the Square, having heard the whistle.
Yes it's odd that PC Pearce (and family) failed to hear the whistle, and slept till called by the police at 2.20. But then, Mr and Mrs Clapp and Mrs Tew slept through the whole thing, not waking up till morning! You'd think the police would have knocked them up too.
Robert |
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Sergeant
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 9:15 pm: | |
Hi John, Rob, and all,
I had hoped to get a look at more of the names
on that list of crimes but must put it off for
a future weekend visit to 42nd Street. However.
I do have a copy of K.R.M.Short's THE DYNAMITE
WAR: IRISH-AMERICAN BOMBERS IN VICTORIAN BRITAIN
(Dublin: Gill & Macmillan, 1979), so I looked over
the material relating to the attack on the Tower
of London. It is on p. 207 - 208, but did not
mention White. It mentions that the decorated
Police Sergeant was Cole, who was awarded the
Albert Medal. However, this is the description
of the incident.
"The date of the co-ordinated attacks [on the
Tower and Westminster Hall] was set for Saturday,
24 January [1885]. Cunningham, a short, dark man,
wearing his bomb under his large overcoat, headed
for the Tower of London. Meanwhile the 'Dillon'
team, probably dressed as man and wife, he with a
bomb under his large coat and she with it under her skirts, took the underground railway to
Westminster. The three bombs were specially
designed to be worn under the large coat or
skirts. At least two of them were parcels 1 1/4
- 1 1/2 inches thick, 14 - 15 inches in breadth
and two feet in length, covered with 'American
Cloth' and strapped with India rubber webbing.
They were filled with slabs of Atlas Powder 'A'.
Just after dinner Cunningham entered the Tower of
London with a few other tourists and proceeded
through the courtyards to the White Tower at the
centre of the Norman fortifications. He made his way up the steps to the Banqueting Room. As the
Tower Warder moved on into the chapel, Cunningham
slipped the parcel secretly out of its straps, set
the fuse and deposited it behind a gun carriage. He then left the room without arousing suspicion.
The bomb exploded at 2 p.m. Somehow he had misjudged the amount of time required to make his
exit or the fuse prematurely detonated. He was
stopped at the gates; he gave his name as Dalton
but his Irish-American accent and an unconvincing
alibi singled out as the prime suspect. He was held. The gun carriage had absorbed much of the
blast, which nevertheless seriously injured two young women and two boys."
"The other two bombers mingled with the sightseers at Westminster Hall, some 2,000 of whom had entered already that day, passing through
the police inspection at the gates. Once inside,
the bombers headed their seperate ways, one man for the Crypt and the other, possibly disguised as a 'woman', to the Bar of the House. At about
2.10 p.m. a woman in the Crypt cried out, 'I think
one of your mats is on fire.' Constable Cole,seeing that it was in fact a smoking parcel, grabbed it and made a dash up the stairs for
Westminster Hall but it exploded before he reached
the top. At the sound of the blast the constable
in the Chamber of the House left his post, and the
second bomb was dropped into the Chamber with a short fuse; minutes later it exploded causing extensive damage. The clock on the chamber wall
stopped at 2.13 p.m. The two bombers excaped in the confusion; miraculously injuries were limited
to the constable at the top of the Crypt stairs
and the unfortunate Constable Cole. Both men suffered shock although the latter had four ribs
broken in addition. His survival was possible only because of the small charge of dynamite in
the diversionary device. If he had charge of the large bomb in the House he would have died instantly. One of the two men was probably Luke
Dillon and he might have been seconded by Henry
Burton although Burton was never identified as having been in Westminster that morning. Burton
was arrested because when Detective Roper saw
Cunningham after his capture, he recognised him
as having been with Burton on the tenth. Careful police work was to establish the latter's responsibility for the attacks on Charing Cross
station and possibly Victoria, Paddington, and
Ludgate Hill twelve month before."
[At this point there is a footnote, on page 255,
which states there "is an unexplained gap in the official records and the foregoing is reconstructed from the evidence given at the trial
of Cunningham and Burton as reported in THE TIMES
(12 - 18 May 1885)."]
The article on White mentioned that he was rewarded and commended by the Home Office. Perhaps he was the man who stopped Dalton in
the Tower of London. But Cole was promoted, got
the medal, and got a 200 pound award.
Sadly there was no mention of the Fenian arsenal in the New Cut, Lambeth, which White uncovered in
1879.
Jeff
|
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 59
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 3:08 pm: | |
Hi Jeff, Robert
Thanks for posting the information about the bombing at the Tower. According to "The Scotland Yard Files" by Paul Begg and Keith Skinner. Inspector Abberline who was in charge of C.I.D Whitechapel at the time, and Assistant Commissioner James Monro was also there. After the trial the Home Secretary Sir William Harcourt ordered that Inspector Abberlinebe given £20 reward.
Robert, I would have thought door to door enquires were routine police work. I wonder what all the constables were doing.
Rob |
Stepan Poberowski
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2003 - 5:12 am: | |
Hi Robert
As addition to your post:
"The first exciting event I remember, while acting in that capacity, was the explosion at the Tower, resulting in the capture of Burton and Cunningham. Detective Abberline was on special service at the time, and it was entirely owing to his prompt action in closing the gates of the Tower that Cunningham was caught - a capture which ultimately resulted in the taking of his colleague, Burton."
From The Eastern Post & City Chronicle Saturday, 3 February 1893. |
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 5:56 am: | |
Hello All,
Didn't 'Nigel West" real name Rupert Alison)- he was a researcher for "Richard Deacon"real name Donald McCormick)-write a book on the history of Special Branch?
Does anyone know if Steve White gets a mention in it?
I am getting the message that old policemen take all the credit for other people's heroics when they write their biographies, but none of the blame!
Or to be fair, others writing about James Munro
credited him with closing the Tower gates and trapping Cunningham.When it was Abberline.
So, if Inspector Abberline worked undercover, like
Steve White on the 1885 Tower of London case,why did he not, as head of the 1888 JTR investigation,seem to know about White's important sighting of a JTR suspect?
One assumes such important information would not have been kept from him?
Separate Thought:Are there any Ripperologists in Scotland who could scan the pages of the Dundee "PEOPLE'S JOURNAL" for other mentions of Steve White?
Say around the date he retired? 1900, I think. |
Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 3:46 pm: | |
Hi Stepan, John
Stepan, thanks for the additional info.
John, Nigel West wrote a book "The Branch: British Metropolitan Police Special Branch". I haven't read it, but speaking of Donald McCormick he wrote a book (under the pseudonym Richard Deacon) "The History of the British Secret Service". Which I am avoiding like the plaque.
I also think if Stephen White's sighting happened, Inspector Abberline would have been one of the first to known about it.
Rob |
John Ruffels
Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 26, 2003 - 5:45 am: | |
Thanks for your comments about Nigel West, Richard Deacon (and his-plague-attracting-real-identity).
Your observation if Steve White had made a sighting Inspector Abberline would have been the first to know is certainly valid.
But. Have we got all the facts and all the documents?
COME ON ALL YOU POLICEMAN'S DESCENDANTS:
GET IT ALL OUT FROM UNDER THE BED....ALL THOSE KNIVES;ALL THOSE RIPPER LETTERS;ALL THOSE STOLEN POLICE FILES:ALL THOSE POLAROIDS OF POLICEMEN IN FETCHING DRESSES....HOW ARE WE 'SPOSED TO SOLVE
THE GREATEST UNSOLVED CRIMES OF THE CENTURY WITH
ONE HAND BLINDFOLDED BEHIND OUR BACKS???
Sorry about that.I just had a Ripperologist's hiatus.... |
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