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Nadine
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 8:14 am: | 
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Hello,
Being a JtR novice, I am requiring some assisstance on the subject of Detective Abberline.I recently saw on TV the movie, 'From Hell', starring Johnny Depp as Det Abberline.In it he has almost supernatural powers to see the murders before they happen.He is in no doubt about the freemason plot hatched by Gull to cover the Princes Bacon.He also becomes directly involved in a relationship with Mary Kelly.
How much of this is 'Hollywood' and how much reality? Did he at any stage in this case , or his career for that matter, suspect a royal cover-up as the motive behind the Whitechapel murders? As far as I have read, Mary Kelly was involved with Joseph Barnett (himself a major suspect now) right up until just before her murder.Did Mr Abberline even know of Kelly before her murder?
I was just curious to know exactly what the real Mr Abberline was like and exactly how good he really was.Have his deeds been exagerated over 116 years? Has he been made by writers and movie makers to be something he isn't.Has he been selected as the 'HERO' to counter the villan JtR to suit writers needs? |
Deadly
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 7:53 am: |
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Abberline in 'From Hell' is a generic character created from the film. He was created by taking elements of Fred Abberline and elements of Robert Lees, a psychic, and mixing them together with an enormous spoonful of wild imagination.
The real inspector Abberline was a very down to earth policeman who worked by methodically sorting through all the information he could find.
Although his first wife had died, he was married again by 1888 and wasn't a drunk or a drug user, or a visionary. He was considered to be a safe pair of hands who knew the area well and would be diligent in the impossible task of searching for the killer. |
Cheryl Waddington
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 12:35 pm: |
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I saw 'From Hell' last night on TV and I agree that it was more 'Hollywood' than fact. It concentrated more on the marriage of Elisabeth Crook to Prince Albert Victor than on the investigation. And the Ripper letters weren't given a look in.I dont believe that Abberline was addicted to opium and that he had a relationship with Mary Jane Kelly.
Has anyone seen 'Jack the Ripper' starring Michael Caine? I have to say that this is one of the best films of all time. It provides a plausible conclusion of their own which the film makers believe is true. I won't spoil it you will have to see it.It truly is a brilliant film you have to see it.P}lease let me know if you wish to know the outcome of this film and also let me know if you have seen it and what you think of it. |
jackie oozageer
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 11:57 am: |
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to cheryl yes i have seen both films there is no doubt that the Caine film is by far the best to me it was not over exsagerated michael caine and lewis collins were superb they are both great actors johnny depp and robbie coltrane as good as they are didnt come up to scratch |
Dorset
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 6:07 pm: |
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Anyone know anything about Abberlines diaries please? |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 439
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 1:40 pm: |
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Hi Dorset,
Full details of the Abberline Diaries can be found in the book "The Ripper and The Royals", by Melvyn Fairclough.
However they are considered to be fake, and originated from the late Joseph (Gorman) Sickert.
Rgds
John |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3710
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 2:34 pm: |
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Cheryl and Jackie,
I must say I fail to see your points. I am sure of that the Michael Caine film is better as a movie, but it actually covers precisely the same subject as From Hell and is based on the same idiotic theories.
From that point of view it really doesn't differ that much from From Hell, so saying that it provides a 'plausible conclusion' as opposed to the latter film, is a strange remark.
Then, if it might be a movie more thoroughly made or with better acting, is of course another question. But those aspects I don't think are especially problematic in From Hell. From Hell is actually quite well done as far as some reconstructions of the historical environment, atmosphere and clothing details are concerned, and the acting is not worse than others I've seen, although sometimes a bit exaggerated.
But even if the Michael Caine film might be a better movie with a better script and maybe better acting (according to some), it is still the same Royal Conspiracy rubbish.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 269
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 5:28 am: |
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Hi all,
Yes, despite what may have been illustrated in the movies, Inspector Abberline was not a drug addict, was not in a relationship with Mary Kelly, and was not a psychic.
It's all there just to give the movie a bit more entertainment value, I'd say.
And out of the 1988 mini-series and From Hell , I'd definitely say the mini-series was the best. It's longer, more detailed, and even if the result was the Royal Conspiracy theory, it was a much more plausible story which stuck closer to the facts.
And, of course, Michael Caine did a brilliant job as Abberline.
Glenn,
"From that point of view it really doesn't differ that much from From Hell, so saying that it provides a 'plausible conclusion' as opposed to the latter film, is a strange remark."
Glenn, I agree with you that the Royal Conspiracy is rubbish and isn't a 'plausible conclusion', but I'd just ask you to remember that the people who wrote the messages above, apart from you and John, were all guests, and for people who don't have a full knowledge of the facts, such movies with such theories can be quiet influential, even if they are largely untrue. So, I don't think there's any need to be so tough on the issue.
John (Savage),
You mentioned in your post the "late" J.G. Sickert. Do you happen to know when he actually passed away?
Just wondering.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Kirsten Cooke,"Allo' Allo'"
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 440
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 7:49 am: |
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Hi Adam,
It was about two years ago that Joe died, I am afraid that I cannot give you the exect date, but Andy & Sue Parlour left a message here on the boards at the time.
Rgds
John |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 3719
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 8:26 am: |
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Adam,
My point was that Cheryl especially (my post should in fact have been directed to her only)did know what the theory was all about, and that she didn't accept it in From Hell. Therefore I found it strange that she found the story more plausible in the Michael Caine movie since it portrays exactly the same theory.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/crime historian
Sweden
The Swedes are the men That Will not be Blamed for Nothing
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Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 272
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:11 am: |
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Hi again all,
John:
"It was about two years ago that Joe died, I am afraid that I cannot give you the exect date, but Andy & Sue Parlour left a message here on the boards at the time."
Thanks for the answer, John.
I was just wondering, since I hadn't heard much about J.G. Sickert recently.
Glenn:
"My point was that Cheryl especially (my post should in fact have been directed to her only)did know what the theory was all about, and that she didn't accept it in From Hell. Therefore I found it strange that she found the story more plausible in the Michael Caine movie since it portrays exactly the same theory."
OK, thanks for clearing that up, Glenn.
I can't speak for Cheryl, of course, but I think it's fair to say that the 1988 mini-series does provide a more plausible plot, which does stick closer to the known facts, even if the Conspiracy theory was the result.
Plus there were the additional characters in the mini-series that weren't in From Hell , which gave that bit extra to the story.
So while I agree with you that the Conspiracy theory is rubbish anyway, and both movies, especially From Hell , are largely factually incorrect, I have to say that I can see why the mini-series would be seen as being more reliable and believable by some people.
Regards,
Adam.
"Listen very carefully, I shall say this only once."
- Kirsten Cooke,"Allo' Allo'"
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David Cartwright
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 8:50 am: |
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Hi Adam.
You said that Michael Caine played Abberline brilliantly.
I prefer to say that Caine played the part he was given brilliantly, because he's a great actor. We have no idea if this was an ACCURATE portrayal of Abberline.
Personally, I think that Caine's interpretation made Abberline look a far better detective than he probably ever was. I've found it amazing how many people rate Abberline, solely on Caine's performance.
Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a photo of Abberline?? All I've been able to find is a sketched artist's impression.
Best wishes.
DAVID C. |
Dorset
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 1:52 am: |
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Thanks for the info John,
David |
Paul Cleaton
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 9:03 am: |
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Actually, the solution presented in the Michael Caine mini series is not the Royal Conspiracy (although that does form a large part of the storyline) but that Sir William Gull was killing the women in some form of mad experiment into the workings of the brain.
In fact, if you read the novelisation of the series, there are 4 different solutions given, so the producers weren't as sure of themselves as they claimed. One of the solutions even blamed George Lusk, in the worst bit of character assassination I've ever seen. |
D. Swanson
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 2:41 pm: |
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Hi David.
I too have seen both films and I think that Caine's portrayal was closer to home reguarding Abberline. In From Hell he is a drug addict with clairvoyant powers. In Jack the Ripper he is a drunk. Why do they, (Hollywood Bigwigs)feel that Abberline must have a tragic flaw? Does this make him more human? He was, in reality, composed,patient,methodical and caring. In my opinion that is everything a detective should be. There is no 'known' photograph of him and with the status that he held I find that strange.} |
Adam Went
Inspector
Username: Adamw
Post Number: 290
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 7:07 am: |
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Hi again all,
John:
Thought you might be interested to know that after I had asked you when Joseph Sickert passed away, I was reading through the last issue of "Ripperologist" , when I saw a mention of just that.
From "Ripperologist" #59, Page 34:
"THE ROYAL LEGACY OF HATE. Nothing has been heard recently about this further volume of revelations concerning the regal ancestry of Joseph Sickert, who died on 9 January 2003."
So about 2 1/2 years ago now.
David:
"You said that Michael Caine played Abberline brilliantly.
I prefer to say that Caine played the part he was given brilliantly, because he's a great actor. We have no idea if this was an ACCURATE portrayal of Abberline."
Well yes, I could have worded that better, but what I meant was that Abberline played the part he was given well as an actor. Whether it was a true portrayal of Abberline or not isn't vital, what matters is that he added a lot to the movie by his performance, IMO.
"Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a photo of Abberline?? All I've been able to find is a sketched artist's impression."
Unfortunately, I don't think any photos ever were taken of Abberline, or atleast none that have been found to date.
There might be one somewhere that hasn't been found yet, but as it stands, I believe there is no known existing photo of him.
Regards,
Adam.
"...Since then the idea has taken full possession of me, and everything fits in and dovetails so well that I cannot help feeling that this (George Chapman) is the man we struggled so hard to capture fifteen years ago..."
- Inspector Frederick Abberline, March 1903 interview, Pall Mall Gazette .
Hmmm.....
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Jennifer Pegg
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 2691
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:35 am: |
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I hear mention of my favourite TV movie
'We have no idea if this was an ACCURATE portrayal of Abberline'
surely Abberline would have spoken with a Dorset, not cockney accent?
Jenni
ps Abberline only had psychic powers in from hell because the character of RJ Lees (who i am told was in the book) wasnt in the film.
pps the difference is the TV movie is supposed to be based on never before seen factual evidence while from hell is based on a novel. |
WilyCoyote
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 4:40 pm: |
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The film 'From Hell' is actually based on a series of award winning gothic-horror adult comics. The writer Alan Moore readily admits that they are not meant to be factual in that they offer a kind of alternative reality, a Victorian London in a dark parallel universe.
He is famous for creating some of the darker Batman comics such as Batman: The Killing Joke, and also created The League of Extrordinary Gentlemen and Constantine, both themselves recently made into films. It's unfair to blame Hollywood - they are only reinterpreting what Moore himself had written, and what he had written he is the first to admit was a work of fiction.
You can find out more here:
http://www.popmatters.com/comics/from-hell.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Hell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Moore |
Louise
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
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i think the inspector abberline in the film is quite realistic but the "premonitions" are just threaded together to add to the feel of the film!!!
he did not know of mary kelly until her murder!!!
Px |
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