| Author |
Message |
    
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 365
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:56 pm: |       |
Does anyone know when Coroner Langham retired/died?
Thanks,
Dave |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 2819
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 1:31 pm: | |
Hi Dave
I don't know. All I can say is that he was in the 1891 census at age 67, where his profession was coroner, and in the 1901 census he is 77 and his profession is still Coroner - it doesn't say "retired".
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 371
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 2:34 pm: | |
Thanks, Robert
I've seen the transcription of a 1891 inquest which Langham presided over (Albert Bachert was a witness). It's interesting that Langham is still plugging away at 77 in 1901; Wynne Baxter remained Coroner until 1920 when he had a heart attack during an inquest. Once a Coroner, always a Coroner, eh? You'd figure these guys would have burned out at some point, but it doesn't look like they did.
I'm still interested in how long Langham survived after 1901, if anybody knows. I'm wondering when his papers might have come into the possession of the Public Records Office.
Cheers,
Dave |
plewdawg
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 2:35 pm: | |
I keep hearing about Abberlines scrapbook. Is there a copy of it made into a book or where is it? |
plewdawg
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 2:39 pm: | |
What did Abberline do for Pinkerton and was sent to Monaco? Did he apply for that job or was he recruited? Finally, there was a large number of constables that comitted suicide in 1895. Can you expound on how many, reasons? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3060
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 3:51 pm: | |
Hi Dave
From the "Times" May 24th 1901 :
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 421
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 4:24 pm: | |
Thanks very much for this, Robert. Not only does this article answer my question about when Langham's tenure ended, but it also seems to reference a piece of legislation Paul Begg mentioned to me once, the Coroner's Act of 1887. One thing I'd like to do is order a copy of the text of that particular piece of legislation and see what it says in full.
Incidentally, Paul also told me that coroners were obliged to retain their records for fifteen years. I don't know yet if a distinction was made for inquests into homicides.
Cheers,
Dave
|
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3061
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 5:21 pm: | |
Hi Dave
There are a few references to the Act in the "Times" but I haven't found the full text.
I found the olde poste house mentioned in a 20th century Yorkshire cricket dispute if that's any help. 
Robert |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 422
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 5:45 pm: | |
Thanks for looking, Robert. That's probably something I will have to order off for; I don't think it's made its way online yet.
The olde poste house? Near the white house?
Cheers,
Dave
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 239
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:28 am: | |
Hi David,
I have been doing a little research on Samuel Langham. Being a coroner, I expect, he would have had either a legal or medical background, so perhaps the following will help.
The 1881 Census, shows a Samuel Langham, solicitor of St. Pancras, London born 1824.
A google search turned up a reference to a solicitor named Samuel Frederick Langham of High Holborn
The death registers for June quarter 1908 list a Samuel Frederick Langham age 84.
The National Probate Calendar 1908
"Langham Samuel Frederick of Buckingham, Windsor Road, Worthing, Sussex. Died 26 April 1908 at 4 New Parade Worthing. Probate London 21 May to the reverend Joshua James Langham clerk and Arthur Cuthbert Langham solicitor. Effects £426 6s 1d."
I cannot be certain that this is the man, but it seems probable. Perhaps we could prevail upon Robert Linford to do one of his famous searches of The Times and see if he can find a death notice or obituary.
Best Regards
John Savage |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3068
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 1:11 pm: | |
Hi John
Langham is traceable from 1871 to 1901 and his age remains consistent. The death age fits perfectly.
However, there was another Samuel Langham who was the same age. This one lived in Suffolk. As he was a farmer, he's unlikely to have moved to Worthing so late in life, whereas Langham could well have retired from the City to there. So I should think that you've found Langham's death.
I'll have another look at the "Times" site to see if the computer's been hiding him from me, but so far his death seems not to have been reported.
Robert |
Christopher T George
Chief Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 944
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 2:32 pm: | |
Hi, David
The official record of the British Parliament is known as Hansard, and it is the counterpart of The Federal Register that records the proceedings of the United States Congress. It occurs to me that the full text of the Coroner's Act of 1887 might be found in Hansard.
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 241
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 2:46 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
I found this other Samuel Langham in the death and probate registers.
He died in 1904 in Suffolk and is described in the probate register as a retired gardner, so on that ground I dismissed him.
The Coroners Act of 1887 should be available in the public library, what do we need to know from it? I may be able to find out.
Best Regards
John Savage
Best Reg |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 423
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 3:01 pm: | |
Thanks, everybody.
Chris, that's helpful information--I thought to go through the National Archives, but have found it in TSO's bookshop available at 20 pounds (for only 6 pages, a little pricey for me).
John, thanks very much. I won't ask you to make a special search, but if you find it convenient, I'm interested to know if it makes any provision towards the storage of coroners' documents (particularly criminal inquests). If it's not very many pages, I'm looking for a copy of the entire text and would be happy to forward funds to cover copying costs and postage if you don't have a scanner. If you find yourself in a position to check it out, drop me a line at oflaherty at casebook.org. And if not, no worries--I can always order the paperback 
Cheers,
Dave |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 243
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 8:24 pm: | |
Hi David,
Regarding the Coroners Act 1887, leave it with me for a few days, I am sure we can improve on six pages for £20.
In the meantime please note that Langham was the coroner for the City of London, and the Corporation of London Records Office may be able to assist you. Their e mail address is CLRO@ms.corpoflondon.gov.uk
They are usually very helpful, so give them a try, in the meantime I will look up this Coroner's Act at the local library.
Best Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 1:03 am: | |
Okey-doke John, and thanks!
Cheers,
Dave |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 245
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:03 am: | |
Hi David,
I popped into the library over lunch time and we now have a photo copy of the Coroners Act 1887.
It runs to a few pages, so later this evening I will have a go at scanning it in and e mailing you.
Best Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 425
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:16 am: | |
Wow, that was fast. John, I appreciate your taking the time to do that, although I feel a little guilty that you burned your lunch hour. When you email me later, please let me know what you're out of pocket and I'll reimburse you.
Thanks again,
Dave |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 246
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 10:47 am: | |
Hi Dave,
Didn't burn it, I just took an extended lunch! |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 3117
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 6:19 pm: | |
Hi Dave
Worthing Reference library have kindly sent me the following item from the Worthing Gazette 27/5/08.
(FROM OUR SPECIAL LONDON AGENCY.)
We learn that Mr. Samuel Frederick Langham, of Buckingham, Windsor-road, East Worthing, solicitor, and formerly Coroner for the City of London, who died on the 26th of last month, left property which has been sworn by his sons, the Rev. Joshua James Langham, of 10, Victoria Parade, Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, and Mr. Arthur Cuthbert Langham, of 10, Bartlett-buildings, Holborn-circus, W.C., solicitor, the Executors, at £426 6s. 1d., of which £347 19s. 2d. is net personalty.
Robert
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 248
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:38 pm: | |
Hi Robert,
Well done in contacting the Worthing Library ( I never thought of that).
We now have conclusive proof of his date of death, and David O'Flaherty has his copy of the Coroner Act 1887, so a good weeks work by all.
Best Regards
John Savage |
David O'Flaherty
Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 435
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 7:51 pm: | |
Yup, thanks for all your help, Robert and John. |
