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Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 647
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:05 pm: | 
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Found this account a strange letter which accounts for the murders in a novel way! The source is quoted as the "London Tauth" which I assume is meant to be the "London Truth", not a publication I am familiar with. The press reports dates from 13 March 1889.
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Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 381
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 12:52 pm: |
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Hi, Chris--
London Truth (daily journal, estab. 1877). The newspaper, published by British politician Henry Labouchere, achieved notoriety in 1892 when it was involved in the case of English confidence man Robert Davey.
Chris |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 648
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 1:19 pm: |
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Hi Chris
many thanks for the info- very helpful
regards
Chris
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2854
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:20 pm: |
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We shall never get rid of these Whitechapel crimes until we.. provide a little legalised and reasonable barbarity for our masses at stated intevals. Let us be moderately and rationally brutal one day in the week, in order that we may be meek, gentle and forebearing the other six."
Brilliant! :D
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Ally
Detective Sergeant
Username: Ally
Post Number: 95
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:26 pm: |
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Hmmm...imagine if we applied that here? |
R.J. Palmer
Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 193
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 2:47 pm: |
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"Let us be moderately and rationally brutal one day in the week, in order that we may be meek, gentle and forebearing the other six."
It's called Football (or, in Canada, hockey). Alas, the brutal Sabbath hasn't worked. |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1359
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 21, 2005 - 5:36 pm: |
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Hi Chris et al.
I have had another thought about this letter, and it is that the letter was not reprinted from The London Truth as we discussed earlier, but that the letter writer might be "London Tauth" as it is spelled. This is a name not far removed, perhaps, from "Tautriadelta" the pen name adopted by Roslyn D'Onston when he wrote about African witchcraft. Also the rather wild theorizing and the reference to the French as in his October 16, 1888 letter to the City of London police and his article of December 1, 1888 in the Pall Mall Gazette might point to Roslyn D'Onston being behind this letter.
We also know that D'Onston was a bible scholar, and that he was the author of The Patristic Gospels (1904). It turns out that "tauth" occurs in the original Greek version of Bible passages, e.g., "see that you abound in this gracious work" is "en tauth th cariti" 2 Corinthians 8:7. See Does Philippians 1:6 Guarantee Progressive Sanctification? by Dr. John F. Hart. "Tauth" is also a Gaelic word as well: "Tauth Raugh Erin" is Gaelic for "Fort of Ireland." See "Family brings Celtic culture to life at festival". Thus, is it possible that the erudite suspect Roslyn D'Onston was behind writing this letter?
All my best
Chris George
(Message edited by ChrisG on March 21, 2005)
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1809
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:40 am: |
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Chris G
Some very intriguing thoughts there. I must point out that the source being the London Truth was just an assumption of mine, as I supposed it was simply a missprint. But your idea about D'Onston are certainly worth looking into and I agree that the odd contents do have a certain resonance with his known theorizing.
Thanks for the comments
Chris
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1810
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 9:47 am: |
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I just realised that in the first post in this thread I gave the date but not the source of this article. It is from a New Zealand paper, the Te Aroha News and is already in the Press Reports section.
Chris |
Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 749
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:00 pm: |
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Chris,
The Greek word you refer to in 2 Corinthians 8:7 is normally transliterated "taute", not "tauth." It is pronounced "TAU-tay" and is a contraction for "ta aute" (feminine), which means "this thing." In this context it modifies "chariti" ("cariti", as you have it) to yield the expression "this grace" or "this gift." The entire phrase is literally translated: "in order that also in this grace you may walk."
It may be that "tauth" is an old way of transliterating "taute", but then "London Tauth" would yield "London This Thing," which is nonsensical.
As to the connection with D'Onston, his nom de plum "tautriadelta" is a Greek anagram of sorts. Tau=T; tria=3; delta=D. So you have something like "TDDD", whatever that means.
Andy S.
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 2:59 pm: |
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Hi Andy
Thank you, Andy. If the translation of "tauth" is literally "this thing" that could have a chilly aspect though couldn't it? Think about it. You might either sign your letter "Jack the Ripper" or "The London Thing." 
All the best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 750
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 3:09 pm: |
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You might either sign your letter "Jack the Ripper" or "The London Thing."
Except remember that taute (TAU-tay) is feminine. So applied to a person it would be "London this woman." Still nonsensical. 
Andy S.
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1369
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 6:40 pm: |
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But then again D'Onston got the French "juives" wrong as well, the feminine form of Jews in French, I believe. Which might show that he really did commit the murders in drag. 
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 360
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 7:16 pm: |
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Nonetheless, Christ Scott, whilst labouring long in the digital provinces HAS turned up some amazing gems.
The "Poppy Land" stories; the angry, literate young lad railing against his profligate father in well-crafted letters; and now this wonderful piece of composition worthy of an anonymous Wilde or Shaw let alone D'Onston.
The curious thing about the latter is, it is hard not to think the author was only half joking...
Your love of your birth-land's culture shines through in your splendid sharings, Chris. Thanks. |
Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 585
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 8:42 pm: |
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From the original article it seems clear to me that it was a letter writer and not another publication.
Biblically, tauth just means "this" or "that" -- the feminine form means it refers to words of that case. Words of feminine case don't need to refer to literal females:
"Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation." (generation = males and females, probably given female gender for language use based upon the reproduction aspect)
"But when they persecute you in this city..." (city = presumably males living in it too).
It's possible the Gaelic word CTG refers to above is actually supposed to be Tuath and that the article linked to above is spelling it wrong. I've seen other sources spell the same guild Tuath, and Tuath is a major word for tribe, such as "Tuatha de Danann." It's thus conceivable that if there were a typo, Tuath could have been what the writer intended.
I've also seen some obscure sources use Tauth as a form of Tiawath, which is a nonstandard rendition of the name more familiar to us now as Tiamat, kind of a primeval Babylonian not-quite-goddess who created lots of monsters until a hero killed them and her. (Tiamat is often mistakenly referred to these days as a many-headed dragon, thanks to confusion with similar monster characters in other myths -- most notably the Dragon/Beast of Revelations -- that were multi-headed dragons, and the name's use as such in modern fiction.) That's conceivably something an occultist would use to describe himself (after all, Crowley was "the Great Beast"), but then that's quite a jump to make off of an ambiguous use of a word that could be lots of other things too.
Hard telling. And Stephenson certainly was not the only person writing goofy letters, so even if we knew what Tauth meant here I don't think we have much to go on to name an author.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1371
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 1:25 am: |
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Hi Dan
Thank you for your interesting ponderings on "Tauth" as a possible name. The additional dimensions you bring from your interest in myth and fantasy offer further possibilities as to the meaning and I thank you for that. And of course, you are right that Roslyn D'Onston Stephenson might not be the letter writer. As we all know, England has long been a breeding place for eccentrics and madmen and women, so indeed it could conceivably have been someone else who wrote the letter.
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 752
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 1:35 am: |
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Dan,
Quite right. As a matter of fact it would be unusual for taute to refer to a person when appearing by itself. It would mean something like, "This particular woman" (as opposed to some other woman) if it referred to a person at all.
I tend to think the source was London Truth, the periodical. Being New Zealand based, the paper's readers would not have access to London Truth, hence the point in reprinting the piece. But it is possible that this is a penname for a contributor.
Andy S. |
R.J. Palmer
Chief Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 553
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 11:27 am: |
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"Irish Landlordism"; "Radical Legislation"...surely Chris George had it right the first time? These are tongue-in-cheek references to Labouchere's own political ideals; he means it as a parody of those who thought that the Radical Reformers were promoting violence; William Morris and G.B. Shaw, two other 'radicals', wrote similar pieces at the time of the Whitechapel Murders. Labouchere's writings tended to be widely reprinted in the 1880s. |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1379
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 6:11 pm: |
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Hi R.J.
Thanks for your support for my theory of D'Onston or someone like him as the possible writer of this letter to the press. I have been known on occasion to bark up the right tree.  
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Andrew Spallek
Chief Inspector
Username: Aspallek
Post Number: 757
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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Although D'Onston could have been the author of this piece, the name London Tauth does not suggest this in particular. D'Onston's penname "Tautriadelta" consists of three distinct Greek words: Tau/tria/delta, hence there is no real similarity to "Tauth."
Andy S.
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R.J. Palmer
Chief Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 554
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:39 am: |
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Chris G.---You have definitely barked up some right trees! But...er..I'm a slightly embarrassed, because what I really meant by my incoherent comment above is that you were right the first time. I am really quite certain this is Labouchere writing in London Truth. At the time of the Whitechapel Murders, a number of gruff commentators wrote to the Times and elsewhere, broadly suggesting that 'Social Reformers' where somehow directly or indirectly responsible for the Whitechapel murders. I think Labouchere is making fun of this. This alleged letter is meant as a tongue-in-cheek exaggeration of how Labouchere saw the Tories: the real attrocities were Irish Landlordism, the Sweating system, etc. Like G.B. Shaw or William Morris, Labouchere is turning the notion on its ear. Blaming social reformers (like Labouchere himself) for 'over civilizing' England struck him as funny. At least that is how I see it. Paul Begg quotes one of the London Truth's columns in his new book; perhaps he has the above column in his files?
It's interesting to note, to those who might have read Colin Wilson's 'Criminal History of Mankind', that Wilson makes a very similar argument to the strange letter-writer. He contrasts the 18th sexual openness to 19th Century Victorian mechanisation, unnaturalness, and prudery, and suggests this is what led to the rise of sex crime. Cheers, RP |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1388
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 1:17 pm: |
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Hi R.J.
Thank you so much for clarifying what you meant! It did occur to me after I wrote my last post that you might have been patting me on the back for my earlier idea that this letter was Henry Labouchere's political ideals as expressed in the London Truth rather than my new suggestion that D'Onston might have been behind the letter. Glad to have you confirm that you think the ideas expressed in the letter are in line with Labouchere's political philosophy. I appreciate your input, R.J. 
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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k.a
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 10:42 pm: |
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i dont know mush about this case but i've been reading up..does anyone think it might possibly have been Melville Leslie Macnaghten? why was he always destroying important evidence? if you guys could help it would really help me eith a project im working on for one of my classes |
rosemaryo'ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 3:46 am: |
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Hi All,
Suppose the author meant "Tauth" as in "Toff", or "Toth"...(gee! a real original Egyption wiseguy!)could this then connect to that notorious rite known as The Cannibal Hymn?
Tauth/Tuath/toth/tothes appears to follow a number of eccentricities exhibited by some (or ALL) the suspects.
So, maybe The London Toth/Toff is in possession of The Great Secret Doctrine of Immortality and in his deviously diverse manner encapsulated it twixt mortar and stone of Whitechapel, circa 1888? Thats the Tauth. The whole Tuath. And Nothing but the Toth!
As Ever, Rosey:-)
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