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Diana
Police Constable
Username: Diana
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 7:57 pm: |       |
When Katharine Eddowes was killed a piece of writing on a wall a few streets away was found. Many think it was written by Jack because a piece of Eddowes apron was found under it. It said, "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing." In English the word is spelled Jews. There is speculation that the person who copied the inscription was actually looking at the French word Juives the chalked iv being mistaken for w. The other problem with the message is that the grammar makes it hard to understand in English. If that same word order appeared in French would the meaning be clear? |
Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2635
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 - 8:12 pm: | |
The idea that "Juwes" was really "Juives" doesn't work for me, because the gender is all wrong. "Juives" in French is feminine. It doesn't mean "Jews," it means "Jewish women." So, "The Jewish Women are the Men who will Not be Blamed for Nothing" doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The masculine in French would be "Les Juifs".
 |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 12:34 pm: | |
Stephen,
I'm a little concerned about how you know so much French....
B |
David Knott
Police Constable
Username: Dknott
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 27, 2003 - 1:10 pm: | |
Using the same logic that D'Onston employed, 'Juwes' could also be 'Juvies'.
Unfortunately, I think that 1888 is far too early for this slang abbreviation to be in use, but can anyone confirm that this is the case? |
Zkot
Sergeant
Username: Humanvulture
Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
C'est evident, pour le future Stephen espere etre francais. Super-sympa! 
Enfin, je crois.
Bien sūr.
Laissez les bons temps rouler, mes amis. Youpi !
A la votre!
Scott (avec un Z) |
Ripperologist85
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 - 7:36 pm: | |
Well when he writes "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" he was talking about the three freemasons that murdered the freemason leader. |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 249
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 10:03 am: | |
Ripper,
That's Stephen Knight's theory.
And more likely than not, it's wrong. "Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum" may all have "ju" in their names, but that's where the relationship to Freemasonry ends.
The Goulston Street Graffito remains open to interpretation.
B |
Monty
Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 45
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 11:49 am: | |
....and falsification
Monty
 |
Cromo
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 6:05 pm: | |
Whilst I do not subscribe to Stephen Knight's theory in full, I nonetheless feel that to dismiss that juwes is the masonry collective term for Hiram Abiff's murderers is too easy. There are a number of references in Masonry lore to Juwes and it may well be the intended word.
If Juwes is intended and if the message was left by the ripper, then the message would appear to say that masons are involved in some way with the murders. |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 265
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 9:51 am: | |
Cromo,
We cannot be sure what the intention of Graffito's author meant by the spelling of "Juwes". And we cannot even be sure that the message was left by the killer at all.
The poor grammar of the sentence, adds to the strength of the conclusion that the spelling of Juwes was a misspelling of "Jews" and was meant towards them, and not to towards a small and rather inconsequential part of the Master Mason ritual that 95% of London wouldn't understand.
Dismissing the "Juwes" is easy because it is not the easiest and most logical answer to the question. Which is simpler? A misspelling or a random, seldom used Masonic term?
B |
Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 208
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 2:07 pm: | |
Hi Cromo
With regard to your posting it would be worth reading the article at
http://www.bessel.org/ripper.htm
which is entitled
"Jack the Ripper" Murders
How To Respond To Alleged Masonic Connections
One passage of interest to your query about the Goulston Street writing is:
"Whatever was meant by the "Juwes" message found on a wall near one of the murder scenes, that term has never been used in Masonic ritual or ceremonies, and the story of the three ruffians had been removed from Masonic ritual in England (but not in the United States) 70 years before the Ripper murders took place."
IF the writing was the work of the killer of Catherine Eddowes (and it is a huge IF), and IF the Home Office copy of the writing is even reasonalbly reliable, then I think the following observations can be made:
1) If the Home Office copy of the writing is reliable, then the JUWES/JUIVES debate is weakened as in the other two words in the message which contain the letter "i" ( Will and nothing) the dot of the "i" is clearly visible.
2) The two grammatical anomalies on the message (The spelling of Juwes and the double negative) could be assumed to confound those reading the message or a true indication of the level of literacy of the writer.
3) The most straightfoward and likely expalantion for the critical word "juwes" is that it is a phonetical attempt to write Jews. Other explanations such as Juives are riddled with problems of interpretation. I have even seen it suggested that the word is the Spanish "Jueves" meaning Thursday as a warning to the day when a threatened murder would occur. This with the double negative (a common construction in Spanish) indicates a writer with string Iberian connections. Again such an explanation raises more issues than it solves.
4) If we accept Juwes as meaning Jews, then the double negative allows two different reading sof the message.
a) If the use of the double negative was unintended and due to low literacy, then to obtain the intended meaning we should adjust it to a single negative i.e. The Juwes are the men who will not be blamed for anything. Again this is open to two main interpretations:
i) if written by a disgruntled Gentile it could be paraphrased as "whatever the evidence, these Jews will never get the blame for it."
ii) if written by a Jew who thought the murder may have been a fellow Hebrew it could be paraphrased as "The Jews are clever enough to avoid the blame whatever the circumstances"
2)If the double negative was intended then the main interpretation could be paraphrased as "There would be reason to blame the Jews for these murders."
There are two main reasons why the writing has been seriously considered as the work of the killer.
1) Pc Long testified that he had not seen the writing on his his previous beat past the Model Dwellings
2) the writing was found above the piece of apron which definitely came from Eddowes' body
the critical question here is how common grafitti
was in Whitechapel at the time. if rare, then point 2 becomes important. If scrawlings were as common as in some parts of London today then the significance of its placing near the apron would be considerably lessened.
Again if grafitti was common then it was far less likely that Long would have noticed it on his previous round, it indeed it was there then
CS
|
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 7:18 pm: | |
"The Jewish Women Are Not the Men Who Will Be Blamed For Nothing".
In Australia, where I come from, no bloke would wear an apron! And even more so in Victorian times.
I'm surprised the late Stephen Knight did not seize on the symbolism of Masons wearing aprons and the piece of apron found nearby to link it to the "Jewes" clue found on a rough wall,in a darkened foyer, where a message had- presumeably hastily- been written by someone who just happened to be carrying a bit of chalk...
Oh, hang on a minute! Maybe we might wear an apron if it were made out of leather! |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Inspector
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 267
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 9:37 pm: | |
Cromo, Chris and John,
In case any of you want to know the roll that the Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum play in Masonic ritual, here's a public version of it: (I'm not a mason, but I will be eventually - and if anyone out there IS, don't get mad, this is a public ritual.)
------------------------------------------------
Excerpt from the Connecticut Ritual for the Master Mason Degree
This program comes from the Connecticut Ritual, second section of the Master Mason Degree. It requires six Brothers taking parts as: Narrator, Sr. Deacon, Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum and Sea Captain. The District Representative usually plays the part of Narrator. This program may be done strictly as a reading by the six players or as a play with the players acting the parts. If performed as a play, the setting should be in the Lodge Room with the Narrator in a part of the Lodge such as the northeast near the Treasurers desk, with the other officers in their respective places according to the floor work of our own second section. The addition of a Brother to take the nonspeaking part of a candidate is required for the play.
NARRATOR: In Connecticut the ritual is written out in full except for the obligations, which remain in code. The five readers will present the assault scene in the Master Mason Degree according to the Connecticut ritual, all of which is written out. The five readers are, the Senior Deacon, three ruffians and the Sea Captain. I will read the floor work notes.
SENIOR DEACON: My Brother, heretofore you have represented a candidate in search of Masonic light; now you will represent another character, no less a person than Grand Master Hiram Abif, who was grand architect at the building of King Solomon's Temple. It was the custom of that great and good man, at high twelve, when the craft were called from labor to refreshment, to enter into the sanctum sanctorum or holy of holies, to offer up his adorations to Deity and draw designs upon his trestle board. This you have done. He the passed out of the south gate to the workmen, as you will now do.
NARRATOR: The Senior Deacon then takes the brother by the left hand, conducts him around the altar only to the south, where he is accosted by a brother representing Jubela.
JUBELA: Grand Master Hiram, I am glad to meet you thus alone. I have long sought this opportunity. You promised us that when the temple was completed, we should receive the secrets of a Master Mason, whereby we could travel in foreign countries, work and receive wages as such. Behold! The temple is nearly completed, and we have not received what we served for. At first, I did not doubt your veracity, but now I do. I therefore demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, this is neither a proper time nor place. Wait until the Temple is completed, and then, if you are found worthy, you shall receive them, otherwise, you can not.
JUBELA: Talk not to me of time nor place. Now is the time, and here is the place; none other will satisfy me. I therefore demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, I can not give them.
JUBELA: Grand Master Hiram, for the third and last time I demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, I can not, and I will not, give them.
NARR: Jubela then strikes the brother a blow with the twenty four inch gauge across the throat. The brother is the hurried away by the Senior Deacon to the West, where he is accosted by a brother representing Jubelo.
JUBELO: Grand Master Hiram, most of the craft are waiting, and many are exceedingly anxious to receive the secrets of a Master Mason; and we can see no good reason why we are put off so long. And some of us have determined that we will wait no longer. I therefore demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, why this violence? I can not give them, nor can they be given except in the presence of Solomon King of Israel, Hiram King of Tyre and myself.
JUBELO: Grand Master Hiram, your life is in danger! The avenues of the temple are securely guarded, and escape is impossible. I therefore demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, I can not give them. Wait with patience for the proper time.
JUBELO: Grand Master Hiram, I again, and for the last time, demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason, or your life.
SENIOR DEACON: My life you can have, my integrity never!
NARRATOR: Jubelo then strikes the brother with the square across the breast. He is then hurried away by the Senior Deacon to the east, where he is accosted by a brother representing Jubelum.
JUBELUM: Grand Master Hiram, I have heard you caviling with Jubela and Jubelo. From them you have escaped, but form me, never! My name is Jubelum. What I purpose, that I perform. I hold in my hand an instrument of death! If you refuse me now, you do it at your peril! I say, give me the secrets of a Master Mason, or I will take your life!
SENIOR DEADON: Craftsman, I have often refused you and shall always refuse when attacked in this manner. Your demands are in vain!
JUBELUM: Grand Master Hiram, I for the second time demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: Craftsman, your demands are vain! I shall not give them! Wait until the temple is complete, and then I will do my best to serve you.
JUBELUM: Grand Master Hiram, I for the third and last time demand of you the secrets of a Master Mason.
SENIOR DEACON: And I for the third time refuse.
JUBELUM: Then die!
NARRATOR: Jubelum the strikes the brother a blow with something representing the setting maul on the forehead. The brother is at the same moment forced back, so as to throw him prostrate to the floor, but is carefully caught, and protected from injury.
JUBELA: What have we done?
JUBELO: We have slain our Grand Master Hiram Abif! What shall we do with the body?
JUBELUM: Let us carry it to a retired corner, and bury it in the rubbish of the temple.
NARRATOR: The three retire to the west, and silence prevails. Then the stroke of twelve is made upon a bell, and the three return, stepping lightly.
JUBELA: This is the hour.
JUBELO: This is the place.
JUBELUM: And there is the body. Assist me to carry it a due westerly course from the temple, to the brow of a hill where I have dug a grave six feet due east and west, and six feet perpendicular, in which we will bury it.
NARRATOR: They remove the brother to the west of the altar, and slowly lower him to the floor with his feet to the east. They then remove the hoodwink from the eyes of the brother.
JUBELUM: I will set this sprig of acacia at the head of the grave, that the place may be known should occasion ever require it.
Now let us make our escape out of the country, by way of Joppa.
NARRATOR: In attempting to escape they travel to a place representing the coast, where they meet a Sea Captain.
JUBELUM: Is that your ship yonder?
SEA CAPTAIN: It is.
JUBELO: Where are you bound?
SEA CAPTAIN: To Ethiopia.
JUBELA: When do you sail?
SEA CAPTAIN: Immediately.
JUBELUM: Do you take passengers?
SEA CAPTAIN: I do.
JUBELO: Will you take us?
SEA CAPTAIN: I will if you have King Solomon's pass to leave the country. Produce your pass.
JUBELA: We will pay your demands, but we have no pass.
SEA CAPTAIN: Then you can not go, for I am strictly forbidden to take any of the workmen from the temple out of the country without King Solomon's express permission
JUBELUM: The let us return back into the country.
------------------------------------------------
As Chris said, this is an American rite, not an English one, and I don't see how this would mean anything to anyone but the initiated.
B
|
Wehrwulf
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 3:37 am: | |
If the graffiti was written by the killer then he must have hung around a long time after killing Eddowes, or more likely retreated to his base and ventured out again to draw attention to the crime by leaving the apron close to the writing. Why would he do this? Perhaps because the other murder on the same night was a coincidence. By the time he got home news of Stride's death would be circulating and he would be annoyed at having the headlines taken away from him by the other killer. Under these circumstances I can imagine him hurrying back towards the crime screen to post the incriminating evidence. In this context he could be claiming that jews were responsible for Stride's death. |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 80
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 11:55 am: | |
Anyone,
The only benefit, in my view, of clarifying that Eddowes murderer did indeed write the damn gaffito is that we can gage his height.
The content comes second to this....I cannot see its relivence.
My view...thats all.
Monty
PS...The fascia it was written on was SEPIA....not black ! |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
Hi all
I suppose I can guess the answer to my own question here, but I'll ask it anyway so I can cross it off.
Is it fairly certain that "Juwes" wasn't a local acronym for anything? Maybe some obscure political group with some such name as "Jewish Union of Whitechapel Emigre Socialists" etc? I should imagine the authorities would probably have known about all the local organisations, but I just thought I'd ask.
Robert |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 4:08 pm: | |
Dear Monty and Robert;
I have always felt (women's intuition?) that the Juiwes reference meant that both of the women that night were hanging around near Jewish Social Clubs when they met their demise. The Jewish Clubs were like the bait, but it was not necessarily a Jewish man who actually did the deed. Remember the old thread "Was Liz waiting for someone?" Both of the victims were also known to have cleaned for Jewish families at different times, and perhaps they were hoping to run into one of their kindly employers for some financial help, as the Jewish business men were usually industrious and well off by local standards.
What think ye?
Joan |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 201
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 8:07 pm: | |
Hi Joan
I can see that if the graffito was indeed written by Jack, it might have had something to do with jobs cleaning for Jews, or relationships with Jews, or maybe it was a reference to Lawende and Co, or to Diemschutz's intervention. And for those who think that the man who shouted "Lipski" was Jack, I can see how it hangs together.
One problem I have with the idea of Jack sending letters or postcards, or writing the graffito, is that in Miller's Court he didn't write anything, even though he had time, privacy and the knowledge that the police were certain to interpret any message as being unambiguously from him.
Plus, the message was written while on the run. If the killer was a native, couldn't he just have written something much shorter, like "Blame the Juwes" or whatever? If the killer was a foreigner, would someone whose English was this tortured have been likely to want to write this message at such a time?
Robert |
Monty
Detective Sergeant
Username: Monty
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:52 am: | |
Joan, Robert,
Im not sure that the graffito is Jacks work.
My problem with it is that if Jack wrote it at the time stated then I cant see how he could have done it in the darkness.
The closest lamp to him would have been shining (if it reached that far) on his back and the area he was writing on would have been in shadow.
But then again, the work he did in that corner of Mitre sq was in pitched darkness also....so that P*$$e$ on that theory eh ?
A prepared note would have worked better...pinned to the body...the alternatives are endless...and less complicated.
Monty
|
Ripperologist85
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
To all who cares,
Listen, the fact that it wasnt on the wall for very long, or that no one thinks that it could possibly be true, considerr this;
1)the misspelling of Juwes is not the property of an uneducated man, because an uneducated man cannot disembowel a woman and take her kidney in one fell slash.
2) Why do you think that he was never caught. because of the fact that all wealthy,educated people were part of the freee masons (including Police) therefore, it was so easy for Jack the Ripper to kill all those unfortunates and not get caught.
Who do you think killed all those women
Thanks B. for the help. |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 2:56 pm: | |
Re the Juwes thing,
Looking from another angle. Eddowes foolishly used the name Kelly. If Mary Kelly was the one he, or they, were after, the Killer obviously thought the last murder had been done. So the message left in Goulston Street would have been the Killers last word on the matter.
Take it from me. Jubela, Jubelo and Jubelum are known to 3rd degree Masons and upwards as the Ruffians or the 3 Juwes. It all depends on who takes the Lodge of Instruction when teaching Ancient Masonic Traditions. The big trouble is that several Masons who are known to inhabit these boards refuse to admit it.
A. |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 76
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 6:24 pm: | |
Whatho Ripperologist85,
I have replied to you about this on another thread. I basically support Old Monty but I do suggest you can take a three dimentional object apart in the dark by touch whether it be a piece of machinery or, in this case, a human body (no disrespect meant). However, you would have to know where the components were so this leans towards someone with medical knowledge. Unless it was just random cuts and pull out anything found.
Cheers, Mark |
Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert
Post Number: 211
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 7:50 pm: | |
Hi all
Monty and Mark, I agree a pre-written note pinned to the body would have allowed Jack to leave any message he wanted (including a masonic one, if he'd so wished).
I suppose he would have had to make do with the wall if he was desperate to refer to something that had happened that night (Diemschutz and Co), and he hadn't any paper handy. But then, as you say, if the conditions were that dark, how would he see to write? - and in such a good hand, too.
Andy and Ripperologist 85, I can't follow you into the intricacies of Freemasonry, but if the Goulston St graffito was meant to be Jack's last word, wouldn't he have wriiten a last, last word on Kelly's wall? Even if the "FM" is counted as a message, it's odd that a man who's prepared to write a long, convoluted message in near total darkness while on the run, should content himself with "FM" when he's got time and privacy indoors.
Robert |
John Ruffels
Detective Sergeant
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:12 pm: | |
So, its all very clear then.Sir Charles Warren had the graffitti removed from the Goulston Street foyer because he deduced it pointed the finger directly at the writer....
Who was he?
None other than...SIR ROBERT ANDERSON!
No, he wasn't on the Continent.He had secretly returned to London,disguised himself as a chestnut vendor in Petticoat Lane, and was so furious when TWO murders occurred under his
very brazier on the one night, he rushed with
his tonges (now there's a clue!) and the chalk
he used to put the prices on his blackboard,
and scribbled his message addressed directly
to the Scotland Yard heirarchy.
If anyone would know what "Juwes" would mean
it would be them!
Were Superintendent Arnold and Sir Charles Warren masons? Was Mary Jane Kelly a Catholic?
Sir Robert was frustrated that his Polish/
Russian/Prussian Jewish supect would never be successfully indicted on the testimony of his
co-religionists.
"The Juwes are not
The men
That Will be
Blamed for nothing".
Just how many Jewish migrants to London's East End were inducted as Masons?
Now, I bet this will get me put on the "List of Suspected Masonic Ripperologists", but who cares.
Have a look at this Australian Masonic
publication
"FREEMASONRY Victoria, issue No. or # 95,
February
2003.
the link is:
www.freemasonsvic.net.au |
Joan O'Liari
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 9:08 pm: | |
Robert and all;
The Goulston Street Graffito was a unique statement made after a unique set of circumstances.
The behaviour of the Jewish witnesses seems a bit cowardly in both murders that night.
First, Schwartz sees an assault, and hurries off.
Later, three Jewish club patrons see a woman with a man, and instead of enquiring "Ma'm is everything alright this evening?", they rush off complaining of the types of people about.
The fact that the piece of apron was found near the writing is a physical link that is hard to ignore.
The writer, who may very well have had his own light source of a candle, took the time to make a statement of his disgust, in a way of saying that they may have been able to prevent two murders, and did nothin.
Thanks for all the great responses.
Joan |
|
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