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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1721
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:42 pm: | 
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I found this extraordinary letter in a report in The Times about a divorce case. It was cited in evidence. The writer, Jack Hodson, was 14 at the time and the letter is addressed to his father!
The Times
21 November 1890
St. Kilda, Lavender Gardens, S.W.
Nov. 8, 1890.
Sir,
I have just heard that on the morning of Guy Fawkes' day you stood outside our house shouting blasphemies and obscene language. Now, understand, I am no longer a child, and, though I make every allowance for you being mad, I do not allow my dear mother's eyes to be offended by your ungainly form, nor her ears to be defiled by your filthy language, and if you venture to annoy her again I will do my best to break every bone in your miserable old carcase, and even that won't make you legs any more crooked.
Wasn't it a lark when Mrs. Lewis heard you howling and shouting in the stables in one of your mad fits? You thought you were having all that enjoyment to yourself, didn't you? I hope you keep it up, as you ought to have some sort of recreation to solace your old age, but don't you come it here or else you'll find some one to deal with who will treat you as you deserve.
It must be a very lonely life for you, despised and detested by every one, but then you have the Turners, and that must be a great comfort, just your sort. I hear you were in London yesterday. I hope you enjoyed yourself.
One thing I should like to know.
Where were you when the Whitechapel murders were committed, as I have read the papers, and it is my opinion you have done them all, as they all agreee that he was a doctor, that he carried a black bag, and was mad, and was a most repulsive looking party. Isn't it wonderful how exactly you answer to that description?
Hoping to see you soon, when I shall give you what I promised you.
Believe me, yours no more,
Jack Hodson.
(Message edited by Chris on February 20, 2005) |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1568
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
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Chris,
What a fantastic letter, in every sense !!
My favourite line is
Wasn't it a lark when Mrs. Lewis heard you howling and shouting in the stables in one of your mad fits? You thought you were having all that enjoyment to yourself, didn't you? I hope you keep it up, as you ought to have some sort of recreation to solace your old age
Top lad !
Have we any suspects named Hodson? If not I fear we may have soon !
Cheers
Monty
I'm funny how, I mean funny, like I'm a clown? I amuse you. I make you laugh? I'm here to f**kin' amuse you? Whattya you mean funny? Funny how? How am I funny?
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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 1:41 pm: |
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Yes, Chris
a fascinating find, and perhaps a useful insight into family relationships during the LVP.
It is always so rewarding to find something like this out of the blue.
My congratulations. |
David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 757
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 2:06 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
It looks like Hodson was an adopted surname there, that the boy was actually named John Samuel Ince? The case is cited as Ince vs. Ince and Hodson.
Cheers,
Dave |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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Hi dave
Yes should have mentioned that
Im typing up the article for the press reports
Im not suggesting this give rise to a new suspect!!! God knows we have enough...
But I agree it is an interesting insight into the effect the murders had on everyday life
Chris |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 527
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:22 pm: |
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Is there a way to research whether there was a Dr. Ince in London at the time? You have to admit that a Dr. with the behavior oddities described in this letter certainly merits more than a passing glance, even if, as I suspect, the boy may have been exaggerating somewhat. |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1723
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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Here is the lead in to the letter quoted above:
John Samuel Ince, son of the petitioner and the respondent, was then examined, and, in answer to Mr. Lockwood, said that in 1885 he was staying at Mount, Farningham, and saw his father kiss Annie Turner and heard him call her a darling girl. He further stated that he saw Turner come out of his father's bedroom one morning at an early hour.
In reply to Mr. Justice Butt the witness said he was not 14 years old.
Mt. Justice Butt - It is stated in the petition that you were born on the 17th January, 1875. That would make you 16 next January.
The witness - That is a mistake. I shall be 15 next January.
Cross examined by Mr. Willis, the witness said he had been some years living away from his father before 1885. He now called himself Hodson, and he had been living with his mother and Mr. Hodson. The letter handed him by counsel was in his handwriting, and he had addressed and sent it to his father.
There is also a second letter from the boy quoted in the court case - this may be an addendum to the first:
November 12, 1890.
At my dear mother's earnest desire I did not post this letter, but since I have seen your face today, with all your madness plainly on it, I determined to post it for my darling's safety. Come here, that is all I wish. You are too great a coward to do it.
I will never own that you are my father. The man I call father, and whom I respect and love, can trace his pedigree 500 years back, and never any but brave and true gentlemen in the count.
Look at his handsome face and your own little, wizened form, and look at my beautiful, gentle mother, adored by all, and worshipped by me, her most unworthy son, and then look in the glass, you ridiculous old fool, and tell me what you see there.
J.H.
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Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 528
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 5:44 pm: |
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Wow! Either the Dad was a royal stinker, or this is one heavy case of teenage rebellion. Impossible to tell at this distance. |
Lindsey Millar
Inspector
Username: Lindsey
Post Number: 315
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 8:32 pm: |
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Chris,
This is a great find! Well done!
I can only agree with what Diana has already said!
Best,
Lyn
"When a man grows tired of London, he grows tired of life" (or summat like that)
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4155
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:36 am: |
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This looks like him in 1891. He was at Montagu House, Main Rd, Sutton at Hone, Kent.
There was a Mr and Mrs Turner one page back in the census.
By 1901 he was a widower, living at the same address.
In 1881 he was living at the house of his brother-in-law. His birthplace was Spitalfields.
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
George J. FURLING
Head M Male 30 London, Middlesex, England Stationer
Caroline FURLING
Wife M Female 29 Spitalfields, Middlesex, England
Percy J. FURLING
Son Male 3 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Arthur J. FURLING
Son Male 1 Hackney, Middlesex, England
Margt.J. FURLING
Mother W Female 62 Deal, Kent, England
Johnn INCE
Brother In Law M Male 51 Spitalfields, Middlesex, England Surgeon Major Retired (Army Offr)
Harriet HEMSLEY
Serv U Female 18 Woolwich, Surrey, England Gen Serv
Source Information:
Dwelling 18 Rockmead Rd
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341068
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0316 / 41
Page Number 5
Robert |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1724
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:33 am: |
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Hi Robert
Very well done with this info. The 1891 sighting is interesting in that I presume the Anne Turner listed as a visitor is the same Annie Turner as mentioned by the son in his testimony as being kissed by his father.
The 1881 listing is useful in that it may give the wife's maiden name. If George Furling was Ince's brother in law then he must have been his wife's brother or the Caroline Furling mentioned was Ince's sister. As Caroline's place of birth is given as Spitalfields, the same as Ince himslef, the latter is more probable. However, the family name in 1871 is given as Curling:
1871 census:
8 Seymour Terrace, Croydon, Surrey
Head: John R Curling aged 45 born City of London - Shipsbroker
Wife: Margaret R Curling aged 49 born Deal, Kent
Children:
George J aged 20 born City of London - Stationer
Richard aged 16 born Camberwell - Clerk provisions
Servant:
Anne Carew aged 30 born Ireland
the main argument against the Caroline Furling of 1881 being Ince's sister is the age difference. he is 51, she is 29. However, when I traced Caroline Ince, as she would have been in 1871, her parents, especially her father, were older than one would expect and it is possible John Ince was her half brother by a previous marriage:
1871:
Commercial Street, Whitechapel
Head: Samuel Ince aged 70 born Clare, Suffolk - Umbrella manufacturer
Wife: Amy Ince aged 58 born Dunmow, Essex
Children:
R Self (male) aged 21 - Engineer pattern maker
S Caleb aged 17 - Clerk
Joshua J aged 14
Caroline aged 19
All children born in London
Servant:
Sarah Ince aged 29 born London |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4159
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
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Thanks for that, Chris. As ever, you're right, for Free BMD has this :
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1877
Adie Isabella Ann Mile End
1c 973
Cowl William Richard Mile End
1c 973
Curling George John Mile End
1c 973
INCE Caroline Mile End
1c 973
But it's still a bit murky, because Ince had a step daughter :
JULY 20th 1888
Ince had letters in the "Times" on burials (Dec 25th 1889) and alcohol (Sept 17th 1891). Sept 23rd 1901 reports a grandson. His death is mentioned Aug 25th 1911.
Robert |
John Ruffels
Inspector
Username: Johnr
Post Number: 344
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 4:59 am: |
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HELLO Robert and Chris,
A truly interesting find.This unknown young pen-man seems to have been able to cut through his emotions in a most mature way,( as well as having flashes of adolescent emotion), to produce compellingly composed letters.
Wouldn't it be nice to learn he grew up to have a happy settled marriage with children of his own, and a flourishing career as a journalist or novelist? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4164
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 6:08 am: |
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Hi John
Well, this is the grandson I mentioned. I don't know whether or not he'd have been happy with the newspaper mentioning his "silly old fool" dad!
Robert |
Ditto
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:01 pm: |
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Hi
Truly an interesting find, well done.
I wonder could there possibly be a connection to James Ince.
He was mentioned in a post from Fiona Rule dated Friday Jan 23 2004, headed 'Dorset Street 1888'.
She lists people living in or renting property in Dorset Street.
"No 2, 3 storey house owned by James Ince and let as furnished rooms with shop space on ground floor"
Another indicator of the wealth of information contained in 'The Casebook'.
I agree that the letter is an "interesting insight into the effect the murders had on everyday life."
It is also an intriguing slice of life from the period.
The situation,the Language, the characters.
All the ingredients of a melodrama.
Great Stuff!
Regards Di |
Diana
Chief Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 530
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:00 pm: |
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Was he a doctor? word word word |
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