| Author |
Message |
    
Mark Starr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 3:49 am: | 
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I have been looking for popular songs and folk songs about Jack The Ripper. I am posting this thread in the Sickert Section because I am particularly interested in locating any English Music Hall songs from 1888 through the Twenties that may have mentioned The Ripper, the kind of songs Walter Sickert might have heard in his frequent forays to the East End Music Halls -- such as The New Bedford, or Wilton's, or Gatti's Hungerford Palace.
While any information about these songs is welcome, I would particularly like to read any lyrics, especially humorous lyrics about Jack. Of course, the music would be fabulous too.
On a related matter, I am also searching out paintings on the theme of Jack The Ripper. I read that the German artists Otto Dix and George Grosz painted Ripper paintings -- but I have not been able to locate any images (not with Google and not in books.) Any help would be much appreciated. Does anyone know other other painters?
Regards,
Mark Starr
PS. There is information on the Web that an "epic musical" entitled Ripper The Musical is now in production and eventually heading to Broadway. I wonder who is the chief suspect.
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Jan Sjoberg
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 2:31 pm: |
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Dear Mark,
you'll find an image of Dix' well-known sex murder scene (1922) at e.g.:
http://www.tigtail.org/TIG/L_View/TVM/B/European/b.%20between%20wars/German-Austrian/dix/dix-2.html
So, what next? Will Dix be suspected for having been the real-life model for Peter Lorre's killer in Fritz Lang's "M"???
Best regards,
Jan |
Jan Sjoberg
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 8:43 pm: |
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...and as regards Grosz, you might want to look up his paintings "Kleiner Frauenmord" and "John, der Frauenmoerder" from 1918 or thereabouts. Both paintings are well documented and should show up at several internet sites.
I imagine Grosz didn't name his paintings after JTR because in the artist's mind they had little to do with him. Grosz was quite able to satisfy his fascination for morbid phenomena in his own neighbourhood, as Germany had its fair share of violence and murder - including serial killings - in the 1910-20's.
Best regards,
Jan |
Ricardo
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 02, 2005 - 4:50 pm: |
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Not really a music-hall song, but there's a great trashy record by British rock'n'roll singer Screaming Lord Sutch called Jack The Ripper. This record was banned in 1962 from the BBC playlist in case it's opening sound-effects of a victim being murdered scared any listeners of a nervous disposition.Most interesting fact about this song is how Sutch had to slur the lyric "is your name Mary Kelly?" so that the name Kelly is inaudible in case any of Mary Kelly's relatives tried suing.
Also of note is that the record was produced by the infamous Joe Meek, who would later murder his landlady before killing himself. Sutch also commited suicide a few years back. |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 859
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 7:00 pm: |
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Mark - I have copies of the first 2 tracks to mention Jack The Ripper. Both were spoken Music Hall comedy sketches.
The first is THE CARETAKER by Bransby Williams (COLUMBIA, 1912) and the second, which I only recently uncovered, was COHEN IS ARRESTED FOR EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT by Joe Hayman (REGAL, 1915).
Sutch's effort (DECCA, 1961) may be the earliest SUNG rendition.
I am in touch with Sutch's biographer (I used to be a member of the Joe Meek Appreciation Society and met Sutch a couple of times) about the slurring of the speech. Graham (the biographer) knew Sutch well and never knew why he slurred the words in the original 1961 recording. In later re-recordings he sung the words "Is your name Mary Kelly" though in 1961 it sounds like "Is your name red blood". Knowing what I know of Sutch, I would be far more inclined to think he knew nothing about The Ripper and so didn't mention any names in 1961 because he didn't know any!
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5247
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 3:25 am: |
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Hutch, is that why they had to use "Mary Clarke" in that film with John Le Mesurier? Sorry, can't remember the name of the film, but the killer turned out to be a surgeon who was crushed by a lift at the end.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 866
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 7:16 am: |
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Hi Robert
I think that post must be for Ricardo. If that is a reply to me you are suggesting when they made this film they didn't know Kelly's surname.
But I think you know better than that! Or are ye just joshing with Pip?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5248
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 8:23 am: |
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Sorry, yes, that's for Ricardo.
Hilarious that they thought Kelly's relatives might sue, as they've never ever been heard of.
I saw some film of Sutch - he used to pull rubber kidneys etc from his cloak and wave them around.
Robert |
Dan L. Hollifield
Detective Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 1:35 pm: |
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Links to "Only A Violet" and "Who Killed C*ck Warren" are on the Casebook.
Vila
"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible... However, it should only take me ten minutes or so."
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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This might be of interest:
Drums and bands helped keep soldiers in step on the march and raise their spirits. Soldiers sang to entertain themselves. The title of this web site, Hurrah! For the Life of a Soldier' was a popular song during the Crimean War and was, apparently, sung without irony. Although soldiers did write and sing songs about themselves, 'military' songs tended to be for public consumption in the music halls. Soldiers themselves preferred the 'pop' songs of the day. During the Egyptian and Sudanese campaigns of the 1880s, the Whitechapel Polka, a gruesome ditty about Jack the Ripper, was a particular favourite.
Source:
http://www.uea.ac.uk/edu/learn/braysher/other.htm |
Dan L. Hollifield
Detective Sergeant
Username: Vila
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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Here are the links to those two songs. A quick search of the Casebook can turn up the webpages about them, with bits of the sheet music displayed, etc.
http://casebook.org/images/cockwarren.mid
http://casebook.org/victims/violet.mid
Vila
"Extremely difficult. Virtually impossible... However, it should only take me ten minutes or so."
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Mark Andrew Pardoe
Inspector
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 289
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:05 pm: |
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Whatho all,
Mary Clarke?
Now we are wandering into the world of Black Widow
Cheers, Mark Andrew Pardoe
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3219
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:12 pm: |
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Hi all
There are these of course,but actual songs sung in the halls at the time are few if any........
The songs BIG at the time filtered out onto the streets and were picked up if they were lucky to be sung or whistled at the least (Like the Old Grey Whistle Test!),but 6d was a lot to spend on a night out even in the gallery
There are many books published with songs of the time but I think you'll find that the songs and ditties 'ummed by the locals at the time were of an earlier period ,even though it may have been by only 10 yrs or so.
I have spoken to many 'old boys' who play the melodeon too and asked em to play something from the old days and they come up with a great rendition of 'The Chicken Song' or 'Wwhen Im 64'.
Food for thought whast we want to think of as OLD they ofeten think of as passe and out of date.
Suzi |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:37 pm: |
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Hi,
Just for intrest sake does anyone know any songs that were sang nightly in pubs around that period.
Ta ra la bom de a [ ridiculous spelling] mayby have been one.
What exactly was in the top ten so to speak in 1888?.
Regards Richard. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5252
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:43 pm: |
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Probably something by Status Quo.
Robert |
Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1522
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:48 pm: |
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Hi,
How about ' I Thought I saw a p---y cat creeping up on me'
Now that would be apt.
Richard.
ps
In the u.k the word i was intending to use is common for a cat nothing more suggestive. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5256
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 5:52 pm: |
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As Mrs Slocombe will tell you.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3221
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:31 am: |
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That cats leading you astray Richard!!!!
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5259
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:36 am: |
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I see I got away with that Status Quo dig.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3222
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:46 am: |
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You may chose to believe that Robert!!!!!
LOL.Right just checked some things on Google re songs etc in 1888 Try this http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/lit/lit.shtml Theres a few interesting pics too and a 'listen to' bit.
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3223
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:54 am: |
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Wonderful 'cove' outside the Marylebone Workhouse circa 1900
A rather alarming broadsheet!
AH!!!!...Gotcha!!!
Suzi
If that link doesn't work go to Google and punch in Popular Songs 1888! |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3224
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:58 am: |
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AND........This is a mine of information!
http://www.musichallcds.com/music_hall_artists.htm
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5262
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:00 am: |
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Very nice link, Suzi. Thanks.
Question : What links Quo and LS Lowry?
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 868
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 6:28 am: |
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Robert - easy one.
Pictures of matchstick men and you....
And I wasn't even alive then.
Suzi - I would LOVE to read that broadsheet. The Swearing Club strikes me as one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen. You big bum wee plop.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5264
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 7:37 am: |
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Correct. But no matchstalk cats and dogs, so that rules out Mr Diddles.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 871
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 10:54 am: |
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Aha - that was Brian and Michael, hitting #1 on the PYE label in 1978 I believe.
That has a link to Status Quo as well as I think Rockin' All Over The World was in the top ten with it.
Do you think Lowry might be JTR then?
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5266
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 11:22 am: |
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Of course not, Hutch, nor do I think he painted the victims - in his paintings no one gets near enough to anyone else to kill them.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3225
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 1:51 pm: |
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Right George----
As President of the 'Swearing Club'
All I'd like to say is'"Right the *******person who was **** the ******* ripper was a ******* local ******* man roight!!!!"
Feel a ******* song comin on!!!
Suzi (oh!******* well x) |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3226
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
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Right George----
As President of the 'Swearing Club'
All I'd like to say is'"Right the *******person who was **** the ******* ripper was a ******* local ******* man roight!!!!"
Feel a ******* song comin on!!!
Suzi (oh!******* well x) |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3227
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
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Whoa now!.......... (Whoa mare!...Comes from the best and saddest Music Hall song ever..............
(Re the Pony Races in the East End) Will post the words between tears if anyone wants em...
It's actually called 'Down The Road' by Gus Elen!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3228
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 2:31 pm: |
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That's Gus!!!!
This is Albert (NRT [no relation to!] Maurice) Chevalier!!! Great suspect face tho!!!!!!
And THIS is Florrie Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!! 'Oh Oh Antonio', and 'My Lodger's (!) Such a Nice Young Man' and all sorts of beauties!!!
Dont you LOVE Florrie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have been into this for years and I can hear people saying OOOOOH God she's back into it as I type!
Suzi
!!! |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3230
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:03 pm: |
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London 1888 a song called
't was in Traflagar Square'
London 1888 |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3231
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
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whoo
hoooooooooo and heres a super pic of Gus Elen
Could be Philip on a day job tho 'eh?
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3232
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:17 pm: |
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http://www.mustrad.org.ok/enth40.htm looks good too
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3233
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:20 pm: |
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Theres more of that song on another site Ive scribbled down somewhere and will find if anyones desparate!
LOL
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3234
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:43 pm: |
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ok lets go will post the rest! |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3235
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:51 pm: |
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Blimey!!!!! anyone for a singalong!!!!!!!..seriously can anyone put this onto the piano may have a go here tomorrow
Sorry to have bored you all to death!!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3236
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 4:53 pm: |
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Sorry its so small!!!! Dont quite know why!
SPECS on chaps!
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3238
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 5:12 pm: |
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Sorry about that !!!!
anyway let's
... carry on then!
Suzi |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 875
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2005 - 9:25 pm: |
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Suzi - we think alike, God help me. I saw that photo of Gus Ellen and thought 'Ha! That's me!' before I read your comments but then the Albert Chavalier photo will be me in 25 years time! Methinks I should play The Artful Dodger (Dickens' version, not the loveable Jack Wild type).
The saddest music hall song of all time is, in my opinion, 'Give Me A Ticket To Heaven' which is about a little girl left alone on a station platform whose sole surviving parent, her father, had just died. I remember the chorus as :
"Give me a ticket to Heaven
That's where dad's gone they say
He'll be so lonely without me
Travelling all that way.
Mother died when I was born, sir,
And left dad and me all alone
So give me a ticket to Heaven, please,
Before the last train is gone".
I defy hardened men not to weep.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3241
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 3:34 am: |
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Philip-(aka Gus)
Yes that is worrying (for you!!!!)
The song's lovely reminds me a bit of
'Dont go out tonight dear Father', a wonderful plea to a father about to go out carousing from Mother while watching little Willie dying of TB on the bed!!
'Dont go out tonight dear Father,
Think oh think how sad you'll be,
If the angels come to get him,
Papa wont be here to see'
AAgh not a dry seat in the house!!!!
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3242
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 4:11 am: |
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The above wonderful song is available on 'A Tale of Ale' a wonderful compilation of material,narrated by the late great Willy Rushton.I had thought this to be long out of print and have lost my ancient cassette so it's re-ordering time folks!!
Available on
http://www.freedmus.demon.co.uk/taleofale.htm
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3243
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 4:27 am: |
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This is a brilliant introduction to songs by or about the 'loveable' Cockney
Suzi |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3244
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 5:26 am: |
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Robert-
Link for the 'A night in a workhouse' from Pall Mall Gazette is
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/lit/Greenwood.html
Interesting reading!
Suzi |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5272
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 6:29 am: |
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Thanks for that, Suzi.
Your name appears in a song I very much like, though it's a WW1 song, not Victorian - Sister Suzi's Sewing Shirts for Soldiers. I'd like to see you and Hutch singing that - at a nice brisk pace.
Robert |
George Hutchinson
Chief Inspector
Username: Philip
Post Number: 878
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 8:49 am: |
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Robert - as you well know, Hutch was a popular black American jazz pianist and singer from the 30s and whilst the Gus similarity we can just about get away with, there are some genetic things which are beyond me.
PHILIP
Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd!
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Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3245
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 3:38 pm: |
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All together now!!!!!!!!!.
Think sadly it's 'Sister Susie's sewing Shirts for Sailors!!!!'
This of course is impossible to say or shtwinng!!!!!
Anyway Suzi says lets keep singing eh! Have some great ones here!!!!
Robert /Philip-
Did ya get the Workhouse Thread? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5277
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, November 11, 2005 - 4:15 pm: |
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Yes thanks, Suzi.
Philip's post reminded me of a Flanders and Swann song about high fidelity recording, which has the lines :
With my tone control at a single touch
I can make a Caruso sound like Hutch
But then I never did care for music much...
Robert |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5281
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 3:13 pm: |
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'Twas Christmas Day in the poorhouse,
And the boys were feeling blue.
The boys in grey werre fighting.
A Merry Christmas to you.
(Laurel and Hardy)
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3249
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:14 pm: |
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http://www.monologues.co.uk/Dramatic/Christmas_Day_in_the_Workhouse.htm
Should do it Robert!!!!!!!!!! You forget how good it is!
Hey Bob- START learning eh!!!!!
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3250
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:23 pm: |
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http://www.monologues.co.uk/Dramatic/East-End_Saturday_Night.htm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Well what do you think eh? |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5284
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:26 pm: |
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Suzi, I'll learn the short L and H one, and you and Bob can learn the long ones.
Robert |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3251
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |
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http://www.monologues.co.uk/Dramatic/East-End_Saturday_Night.htm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Well what do you think eh? |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3252
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:30 pm: |
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THIS link is going to keep us all busy for a LONG time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://monologues.co.uk/Dramatic/index.htm
The long winter nights will just fly past!!!!!!(hopefully!)
Suzi x |
Suzi Hanney
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Suzi
Post Number: 3253
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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Right to bed now! Hey BRILLIANT link tho eh!?
Suzi x |
