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Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 3:26 pm: |       |
I don't see why there isn't as much discussion about this suspect. Every single piece of evidence in the two dissertations seems to fit like a glove, as does the traits of La Bruckman.
Killing cattle on cattle boats for a living would definitely numb oneself to the initial shock of killing a living being and disemboweling them after a while. And he worked for 14 years on these cattle boats.
As well as the boats docking at London on all of the 'Ripper' murder dates, I don't see why this suspect is not up on the Suspects page of the Casebook as one of the primary suspects!
Even his descriptions from the witnesses (a sailor, cutaway coat, fair moustache but dark skin, as he was moroccan) all seem to fit almost perfectly.
I've really never felt this strongly about any of the suspects and I've been visiting this site off and on and reading the forums for ages.
All I can say is wow... I'm plenty convinced. Does anyone have anything to contradict this suspect's incrimination?
Chris M |
Diana
Inspector
Username: Diana
Post Number: 261
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 11:57 pm: | |
Arbie was always one of my favorites too. I agree that he fits the profile nicely and much of the evidence is suggestive. twenty three, twenty four twenty five  |
M.Mc.
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 12, 2004 - 6:26 pm: | |
As was said in the O.J. Simpson case, "If the glove don't fit, you must aquit!" or "You can't always tell a book by it's cover." 
There are many people who hunt and kill the four legged beast that roam our world. As numb as a person can become from that, does not make them numb to the sight of a fellow human cut to bits.
Serial killers have had all sorts of jobs and hobbies. EX: John Wayne Gacy's hobby was to dress like a clown for kids. People liked him and were shocked by his crimes. 
Check out this link...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/gacy/gacy_1.html |
Jason Scott Mullins
Detective Sergeant
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:05 pm: | |
Chris -
Yeah, I kinda thought the same thing when I read the info on him. However, formulating about a suspect at this point (for me personally) isn't a good idea. Though, if I was forced at gun point to name him, LaBruckman would be the name I would give.
Whether or not I'm right however, is a different story all together! I suppose only time will tell. Let me put it this way.. I'm not a betting man, but I'd put $5 on him being involved in someway, shape or form 
M.Mc: Hey There! Perhaps. Though, to some it just doesn't matter. Cattle, People, rabbits. One of the only common threads that I can find among the serial killers I've studied and we've caught in the past has been the missing of that little voice in your head that says "No" to all things illegal/immoral/unethical/etc. It's all about perception and point of view.
crix0r |
Michael Raney
Detective Sergeant
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 91
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:44 pm: | |
I personally feel that La Bruckman is a more viable suspect than most of the ones on the list, but, we need to work it from the center out. We will have to take it murder by murder, date by date and see where that information leads us. If it leads us to La Bruckman, then, he becomes suspect number 1.
Mikey |
Wolf Vanderlinden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wolf
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:47 pm: | |
Chris.
I look fairly closely at Arbie La Bruckman in my never ending Carrie Brown article The New York Affair, part 3 of which will appear in the April edition of Ripper Notes.
You posted "As well as the boats docking at London on all of the 'Ripper' murder dates..."
La Bruckman worked for the National Steam Navigation Company, more commonly called the National Line, which had a dozen ships in its fleet and hundreds of sailors. The National Line, a British company, ran between the British ports of London and Liverpool and the Port of New York. This means that while they may have had ships docked in London on the dates of the Ripper murders they also had ships docked in Liverpool and New York and also ships at sea in transit between these ports. Unless you can positively place La Bruckman in London on the nights of each murder, and no one has been able to do this, then this fact is merely interesting and not conclusive of anything.
"Even his descriptions from the witnesses (a sailor, cutaway coat, fair moustache but dark skin, as he was moroccan) all seem to fit almost perfectly."
You seem to be mixing bits of La Bruckman's description with that of "C. Kniclo" the man described entering the East River Hotel with Carrie Brown. Mary Miniter's description of the man includes the information that this man was wearing "a dark-brown cutaway coat, dark trousers and a battered derby hat." Unless you can prove that this man was indeed La Bruckman then you cannot state that La Bruckman owned a cutaway coat only that the suspect who entered the hotel had such a coat. La Bruckman's clothing was described as "a sailor's cloth cap, blue coat, calico shirt and coarse, dark trousers." No mention of a dark-brown cutaway but again only an interesting point. La Bruckman may have had more than one coat which is something that can neither be proved nor disproved.
Also La Bruckman did not have a fair mustache nor was he blond as "C. Kniclo" was. He was described by reporters as having "black hair and a dark brown mustache." La Bruckman's description does not fit with the description of the murderer of Carrie Brown nor does it fit with the description of the blood stained man who entered the Glenmore Hotel in the early morning of the murder. A man whose description tally's exactly with that of "C. Kniclo."
I have never seen any reference to his having "dark skin." Although he did say that he had been born in Morocco he was not a native or an Arab. It is likely that he was actually of French background.
There has been some confusion on these boards that La Bruckman was in fact Alsatian. This stems from statements that I had made some time back that his family might have originally come from Alsace. I go into greater detail on this point in my article but this is only conjecture on my part and is not proven.
Wolf.
|
Jason Scott Mullins
Detective Sergeant
Username: Crix0r
Post Number: 92
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 12:56 pm: | |
I agree Mikey.. which is what i have chosen to do. If I have a suspect in mind, I might subconsciously lead myself towards him. Though now with the info I have on LaBruckman, i will have to make an conscious effort NOT to lead towards him
crix0r |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
Chris wrote:
"I don't see why there isn't as much discussion about this suspect."
He's still quite new as a modern suspect, give it time to gather steam.
I'm intrigued with what we have so far, but there's quite a ways yet to go. |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:54 pm: | |
http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-carriebrown.html
Wolf,
This dissertation (linked above) seems to claim that Kniclo is a 'made up' name, possibly Miniter attempting to confuse police after being threatened by La Bruckman or someone else... threatened into changing her story perhaps?
Miniter's initial description of the man was the description matching La Bruckman... and perhaps changed her story due to the above. Nobody is likely to ever know. But why would she give a second description? What was wrong with the first one? And how would she remember it later on, after giving the initial description? I doubt she "sobered up" and remembered more clearly what the man looked like. Sounds like a cover-up of some sorts, or maybe she feared for her life after describing him to the police.
Seems like it was Fitzgerald who pushed her to record this fake "Kniclo" name in the books when the unnamed man rented the room with Brown, and she claimed that it was invented by Fitzgerald, and thus she did not enter it in the books.
So I fail to see where Kniclo is really a factor in all of this... bottom line is that she still saw a man matching La Bruckman's description, with Brown that night in the room, acting furtive and anxious.
Maybe I am confusing things a tad. I'm not sure! I am just overwhelmed with thoughts about this right now and perhaps am not getting everything straight. |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:01 pm: | |
Pardon my ignorance, but who is C. Kniclo? Now I am growing more interested ;) All I have read about La Bruckman is contained within the two dissertations on this site about him. I am assuming that if he was Moroccan, his skin would be slightly darker than your average caucasian. Obviously that is an assumption and not fact. The descriptions of some of the witnesses from the Whitechapel murders indicated that the person they saw near the scene of the crime in fact had 'tan' skin and a fair mustache. I was also under the impression that "Frenchy #1" was La Bruckman, and that Miniter had seen Carrie Brown enter room 31 with him. I am not aware of Kniclo at all... but I will try to find some information.
As far as La Bruckman being in Whitechapel on those dates, I would love to know if he was on those docked boats. I would also love to know if he looked anything like the man Hutchinson claims to have seen on the night MJK died.
Could you please link me to your Carrie Brown article? I would love to read it. Thank you! |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
One other interesting tidbit I noticed while reading one of the dissertations on this site about the Carrie Brown incident is the "X" which was carved into her buttocks.
There were two "V"'s carved into Eddowes (was it her? or Kelly's) face after her murder.
Is it possible that he was marking his 5th and 10th murders with roman numerals?
Perhaps something worth looking into for fun... and seeing if there are an adequate number of "ripper-type" murders between the 1st, 5th and 10th murders.........! |
Glenn L Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 1136
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 13, 2004 - 5:23 pm: | |
Hi all,
Regarding La Bruckman, I must agree with most posters here; the more I learn about this character, the more interesting he gets.
Wolf,
I agree, we must be able to place him in the London docks at the time of the murders in order to pin him down as more than interesting.
However, regarding witness descriptions, he may be questionable as far as Carrie Brown is concerned, but as far as I can see he suits quite many that has appeared in connection with the Ripper!
I for my part, would love to see a larger amount of serious studies on this man -- if not, at least to be able to exclude him. But he does look appealing and promising in many ways so far, although we at the moment have no real facts that ties him to the Whitechapel murders.
All the best
(Message edited by Glenna on February 13, 2004)
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Kevin Braun
Detective Sergeant
Username: Kbraun
Post Number: 93
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 10:45 am: | |
Wolf,
I would like to know more about La Bruckman's alibi for late night, early morning 23/24 of April. At 7:00 PM Ben Ali and La Bruckman were at the Brown's basement lodging house looking for Mary Ann Lopez. Lopez was not there. 1&2 decided to wait and got into a conversation with Brown. At some point they left and met up with Lopez at Speekman's saloon, where the four were seen drinking together.
I know timing can be dicey, however unless it was a quick wait and a quick drink, La Bruckman would have been pressed to make it back to Cranford (I think) N.J. by midnight. Brown was killed sometime after 11:00 PM. La Bruckman may have had an alibi for the morning of the 24th, but I find it difficult to believe that he had a solid alibi for the evening of the 23rd and the early morning of the 24th.
I look forward to reading The New York Affair, part 3.
Take care,
Kevin
|
Wolf Vanderlinden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wolf
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 5:20 pm: | |
Chris.
"C. Kniclo" is the name given to the man who entered the East River Hotel with Carrie Brown on the evening of the 23rd of April, 1891. The name may or may not be made up, (readers of my articles will notice that the name is always in quotation marks whenever I use it to reflect this uncertainty). I use this name to identify the murderer, whoever he was, and to keep him separate from such suspects as Ameer Ben Ali or Arbie La Bruckman.
Mary Miniter did not give "a second description" of "C. Kniclo," indeed she had no chance to, but instead described a thin, blond, or light haired, sharp nosed man whom she thought was German. Pretty much all the newspapers gave this same description of the murderer as did the police in their internal bulletins. The police also spent all their time apparently looking for this blond haired German rather than a black haired Moroccan.
One newspaper, the Daily Continent, stated that the man's hair was "light-brown," hardly a second description, while the Herald, writing two days later and ignoring Miniter's description while attempting to match the descriptions of "C. Kniclo and La Bruckman, stated that the man's hair was "brown." Since the overwhelming evidence was that Miniter had described a blond or light haired man any deviation from this seems to come from the press and not from Miniter. At no time did Mary Miniter give a description that matched Arbie La Bruckman's black hair, brown mustache, stocky muscular build and French/Moroccan ethnicity.
Miniter was placed in police custody on the morning of the 24th of April and stayed there until after the trial of Ben Ali which ended on the 3rd of July, 1891. It is doubtful that she was afraid for her life since she was surrounded by police for over two months.
Glenn.
I agree with you about La Bruckman being an interesting suspect and one well worth a look. I keep thinking of his sailorly appearance and stocky build in connection with descriptions given of the Whitechapel murderer but, and there always seems to be a but, there is absolutely no evidence that actually ties La Bruckman to the Ripper murders. In fact, La Bruckman's own tale of being arrested in London and being charged with the Ripper murders appears to be a total fabrication. So often did he change his story, and over a very short period of time, that nothing that he said can be trusted.
Kevin.
La Bruckman, Ben Ali, Lopez and Brown did indeed eventually link up at Speekmann's Saloon and were seen drinking there together at around 8:30 on the night of the 23rd of April. The interesting thing is that this little party broke up fairly early for some reason and Brown, who had been paired off with La Bruckman, was next seen drinking in the Ladies Room of the East River Hotel sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 pm. It seems likely that Brown was on her own because La Bruckman had left and as La Bruckman was living and working in Jersey City, New Jersey, not Cranford, and only had to take one of the many ferry's across the Hudson River, he had more than enough time to get back to his lodging house before 11:45 when Brown and "C. Kniclo" entered the hotel together. Brown was murdered sometime after Midnight in the early morning of the 24th.
It should be remembered by everyone here that when questioned by the police about the murder of Carrie Brown La Bruckman was able to give an alibi. This alibi was checked and it was corroborated by "the people that he was living with," (plural), and he was released.
Wolf. |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 1:11 pm: | |
Is it possible to find/read a copy of the New York Affair series without having to purchase the Ripperologist publication? I would definitely like to read it... it seems as if there is alot more information on the Carrie Brown murder within that series that I am unaware of. |
Robert W. House
Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 49
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 7:32 pm: | |
How long would it take for a cattle boat to cross the Atlantic fron London to NYC? Also, is the assumption that a cattle slaughterman would stay on one boat, or would he work on the docks on whichever cattleboat was docked there at the time? Would it be possible for LaBruckman to be on a boat in London on one of the murder dates, then depart for New York or elsewhere and return in time for the next murder date?
I guess I am mainly wondering how long it took for a boat to cross the Atlantic in those days.
RH |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 12:07 am: | |
Wolf,
You seem to have alot of information at your disposal that I have not seen. Where do you find the 'physical' description (you gave in your previous post) of Arbie La Bruckman, and is it possible for me to view your New York Affair publication? I would love to read it. Thank you.
Chris |
Mike Conlon
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 11:39 pm: | |
I do not intend to enter into any prolonged polemic about this matter, but merely wish to address some misrepresentations made by Mr.Vanderlinden regarding my suspect, Arbie LaBruckman.
He states: "The police spent all their time apparently looking for this blond haired German rather than a black haired Moroccan".
Nonsense - Over and over again, police and press reports state that the prime object of the search was "Frenchy #2", the man known as Ali's cousin and positively identified to be LaBruckamn. The New Jersey Police, upon arresting LaBruckman, stated it to be the most important arrest that could be made in the case.
There never was a "Kniclo". It was clearly shown during the trial that the name was invented by hotel staff to fulfill municipal requirements.
Mr Vanderlinden's entire argument against LaBruckman's candidacy as Brown's killer consistently refers back to this discredited description of a "blond" suspect. If anyone wishes to read my article, "The Carrie Brown Murder Case:New Revelations", they will see that, not only did the police find her description of a blond suspect unreliable, but, under oath, on the stand at the Coroner's Trial, Mary Miniter admitted that the description was INVENTED, MISLEADING, and SHE DID NOT KNOW HOW THE MAN REALLY LOOKED. What she did remember, and what police assiduously followed up on, was the fact that Miniter remembered the suspect to be Ali's 'cousin', the man later positively identified to be LaBruckman!
Mr. Vanderlindens' statement that LaBruckman's arrest is a fabrication of LaBruckman's is totally wrong and misleading. Read my articles. LaBruckman was brought to the attention of police by a confidential informant who told them about LaBruckman's London arrest on suspicion of being JtR, which was looked into and apparently verified by police. Reports from fellow sailors about these circumstances also figure in the report.Mr. Vanderlinden talks about LaBruckman constantly changing the story of his arrest. Let's set the record straight. LaBruckman admitted to reporters that he was arrested on suspicion of being JtR in London after being confronted with news and police reports gleaned from the confidential informant. He denied that he was involved in the Whitechapel killings despite his arrest. The ONLY inconsistency in his story concerns the amount of compensation he received from the British Government after his release from jail.
LaBruckman's only alibi was from friends with whom he lodged. As I have pointed out in my articles, in addition to the highly tenuous nature of such testimony, the police were already apparently 'fitting-up' Ali for the fall.
I would just caution people to be aware of possible misrepresentations by Mr. Vanderlinden.
I do not intend to be drawn into an argument, therefore, I would merely direct readers to carefully read my articles in addition to Mr. Vanderlinden's and decide for themselves the accuracy of all statements made in regards to this case.
-Mike Conlon |
Wolf Vanderlinden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wolf
Post Number: 60
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 7:12 pm: | |
Robert.
Steam ships could make it across the Atlantic in about seven to ten days if they really pushed. Ten to fourteen days was more likely. By 1891 American cattle would be off loaded straight to British dock side slaughtering houses so cattlemen who made the journey had no other responsibilities. The return trip would be made profitable by the booking of passengers headed for North America and hundreds of thousands came over by cattle boats. This doesn't mean that people slept in cattle stalls, those were in the hold, but in rooms of various sizes and at different rates. What the cattlemen did on the return trip is anybodies guess.
The cattlemen were not stuck on only one ship, apparently, and La Bruckman himself states that he was arrested on his way to Hull, from London, to take ship. Presumably a different one from the one he arrived in London on.
Wolf. |
Wolf Vanderlinden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wolf
Post Number: 61
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 7:20 pm: | |
Mr. Conlon.
For someone who left these boards in a huff vowing never to return you sure seem to pop up whenever anyone dares to point out the flaws in your pet theory. But then again you do readily admit that your writings are suspect driven and seen through La Bruckman coloured glasses. I freely admit, on the other hand, that my writings on the murder of Carrie Brown are completely subjective. I have no theory to flog, or protect. I have no biases or pre conceived notions. I offer absolutely no suspect as my own. Instead I have weighed your theory that Arbie La Bruckman was, not only the murderer of Brown, but also Jack the Ripper and found it unconvincing. So sue me.
"He states: "The police spent all their time apparently looking for this blond haired German rather than a black haired Moroccan".
Nonsense - Over and over again, police and press reports state that the prime object of the search was "Frenchy #2", the man known as Ali's cousin and positively identified to be LaBruckamn. The New Jersey Police, upon arresting LaBruckman, stated it to be the most important arrest that could be made in the case."
Oh really? I based my observation that the NYPD were actively searching for a blond haired German on the daily reports of blond haired men being arrested and brought in for questioning. As La Bruckman was described as a black haired Moroccan it is obvious that they weren't actively searching for him.
To put it another way if a newspaper reporter, who did not know what was going on in the investigation, states that the police were looking for "Frenchy No 2," described as a stocky, black haired, brown mustached Moroccan, while the police are actually arresting thin, blond haired German types then the evidence, when looked at subjectively, seem to point to only one conclusion. I am sorry if that this conclusion points away from your own personal biases.
Mary Miniter claimed that she lied and that she didn't remember what the man, "C. Kniclo," looked like after she had been in police custody for several weeks and after the police had decided to frame an innocent man. The fly in the police ointment was "C. Kniclo" and Miniter's description of him. How could Ameer Ben Ali be guilty of Brown's murder when a different man rented the room with her and then disappeared having never been interviewed or exonerated by the police? Simple. The chief witness lied. The name was made up. The description was false. End of story.
The police HAD to get rid of any inconvenient stumbling blocks, like any mention of the actual killer, in order to convict the innocent Ben Ali. Surprise, surprise, the witness, who was under arrest and in police control for over two months, miraculously changes her story and says that she didn't see the man after all. The jury should just put him out of their collective minds and concentrate on the man in the dock. And what punishment did Miniter receive for lying to the police, for obstructing a police investigation, for wasting police time, money and manpower? Absolutely no punishment whatsoever. A bit funny, that, don't you think?
Even funnier is the description of the blood stained man who entered the Glenmore Hotel on the early morning of the murder. This description fits exactly with the one given by Miniter. Does this mean that Kelly, the night clerk at the Glenmore, was also lying? was he and Tiernan, the nightwatchman of the Glenmore, involved in some sort of conspiracy with Miniter? Is there any evidence that proves this? Any at all? Or is Kelly's statement a corroboration in support of the description Mary Miniter had given to reporters before she was hustled away and muzzled by the police?
"What she did remember, and what police assiduously followed up on, was the fact that Miniter remembered the suspect to be Ali's 'cousin', the man later positively identified to be LaBruckman! "
That's an interesting point and absolutely key to your whole theory that Miniter made the claim that she suddenly remembered that "C. Kniclo" was actually Ben Ali's "cousin." Why was this important bit of evidence not announced at the press conference that Chief Inspector Byrnes called on the late evening of the 25th of April? Only one newspaper had made this claim after the conference and yet there were over thirty reporters there that night. Did the others miss this crucial bit of news?
Why did Byrnes state "I did not say I knew who the man was nor that Frenchy was the man. I said he was suspected of being the man. As soon as the newspapers get through discovering the murderer I can do better work on this case" only a day and a half later if indeed his chief witness had actually made this important claim?
More importantly why do you believe anything that Miniter said when you have gone out of your way to prove that she was a liar and totally untrustworthy? You make the claim that she offered the police at least two different descriptions of the killer. You state that she was considered "wholly unreliable" and you offer "Furthur evidence of Miniter's highly questionable veracity." (See Conlon, Michael. The Carrie Brown Murder Case: New Revelations. Ripperologist, No. 46: May, 2003.) So is it that you only believe Miniter when she supports your own personal theory and disbelieves her when she contradicts your own personal theory?
Exactly what is the source of your statement that LaBruckman's arrest on suspicion of being Jack the Ripper "...was looked into and apparently verified by police." I would consider that to be brand new and highly interesting evidence. Unless of course you make this statement based on the World's interview with the attaches of the Glenmore Hotel. That would simply be supposition on your part that the reporter meant the police rather than those attached to the hotel.
As for your statement "The ONLY inconsistency in his story concerns the amount of compensation he received from the British Government after his release from jail." is incorrect.
"A man who admits that he is Frenchy No.2, and one who was held in London for two weeks as ‘Jack the Ripper,' when he was discharged for want of evidence..."
"I was arrested and taken to the London Headquarters. I was locked up for a month placed on trial and duly acquitted."
"He claims that his trial for killing one of Jack The Ripper's victims lasted two weeks..."
"...on suspicion of having killed nine women in the Whitechapel district, but after being in jail for a month was discharged."
These statements are in sequential order and made, apparently, within hours of each other. La Bruckman, therefore, claimed that he was held for two weeks then released; held for four weeks followed by a two week trial at which he was acquitted; held for four weeks and released and there was no trial. I would have to say that in my subjective opinion these are inconsistent statements and tend to point to a man who is lying, or fabricating, his story as he goes along.
As for your claim that "LaBruckman's only alibi was from friends with whom he lodged." I would also have to say that the conclusion that the people at his lodging house were merely "his friends" is new evidence and wonder what your source is? Nowhere have I seen this reported.
I would just caution people to be aware of possible misrepresentations by Mr. Conlon.
I do not intend to be drawn into an argument, therefore, I would merely direct readers to carefully read my articles in addition to Mr. Conlon's and decide for themselves the accuracy of all statements made in regards to this case keeping in mind any personal biases that the author might be susceptible to.
Wolf. |
Dan Norder
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 6:03 pm: | |
I mean no disrespect to Wolf, as he has done a lot of research and has earned recognition in this field, but I can't shake the feeling that his mind was made up on the Carrie Brown case long before he set out to investigate it.
Back on the old boards he very strongly stated that the Carrie Brown murder had absolutely nothing to do with the Jack the Ripper case. When asked why, he said that the killing was not at all similar. When Mike found evidence detailing the mutilations, Wolf then said that they proved that they were completely different and couldn't possibly be made by the same hand. While some differences are obvious, I certainly did not and do not see how they are so different to be obviously by another killer, especially when they have more in common with the later canonical Ripper killings than the first ones did.
At this point he seems (to me at least) to have been on a mission to try to naysay everything Mike has come up with.
I would take a cautious middle ground here on a lot of what each of them are saying. For example, while LaBruckman's claims to have been arrested in Whitechapel for the Ripper killings have not been confirmed and some details sound less than reliable, I wouldn't jump to Wolf's judgement that they appear to be a "total fabrication." It seems to me that the rumors at least had an independent existence prior to LaBruckman's statement. That's not a smoking gun, but it is something.
But anyway, take from this what you will. I just thought that I'd be an independent voice mentioning that Wolf appears to be trying to find any reason he can to write off the whole Brown case (for what purpose I can't possibly guess) while Mike seems to be personally attached to the suspect he put so much effort into identifying (which I believe is a natural, if not wholly reliable, result of the work put into it).
Somewhere out of all of this we may be able to sort the facts from opinions. |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 1:03 pm: | |
Thanks Mike. If I could read his articles I would, however I cannot find them anywhere. I still believe it is too easy for La Bruckman to tell the people he was lodging with "If anyone asks where I was last night, tell them I was here..." and sugar-coat it so that the police believe it. And as you said, they were probably set on Ali as their suspect and didn't really care to pressure La Bruckman for more information.
Chris |
Wolf Vanderlinden
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wolf
Post Number: 62
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 4:33 pm: | |
So, Dan let me get this straight.
A few of us are having a discussion about Arbie La Bruckman. At no time did any of us mention Michael Conlon, although Chris, I think, did say that they had read one of Mr. Conlon's articles here on the Casebook. Mr. Conlon, who swore that he would never post here again, magically reappears during our discussion and proceeds to attack me claiming that I had made "some misrepresentations" about his suspect. That what I had said was "totally wrong and misleading" and ending with "I would just caution people to be aware of possible misrepresentations by Mr. Vanderlinden." This elicits absolutely no response from you Dan. Not a peep.
I then respond to Mr. Conlon's rant and wouldn't you know it here comes Dan Norder to set me straight. Gee Dan I think your bias is showing.
"...but I can't shake the feeling that his mind was made up on the Carrie Brown case long before he set out to investigate it."
So, Dan when exactly did I begin to investigate the Brown murder? What exactly were my feeling about the murder before I started to do research into it? How did my feelings change on account of my research? If you can't answer any of these questions then I am afraid your above observation once again displays your bias as, in effect, you are saying that I was prejudiced from the start.
"When Mike found evidence detailing the mutilations, Wolf then said that they proved that they were completely different and couldn't possibly be made by the same hand. While some differences are obvious, I certainly did not and do not see how they are so different to be obviously by another killer, especially when they have more in common with the later canonical Ripper killings than the first ones did."
Mr. Conlon has discovered the Carrie Brown post mortem photographs. This is an important find and I take my hat off to him for this achievement. I discovered and translated the autopsy report which explains in detail what were the nature of the mutilations to Carrie Brown. I understand that the photographs are more "sexy" and most people cannot understand medical jargon, let alone what it might mean in relation to the Whitechapel murders, but the autopsy report is much more important than the photos.
The autopsy describes the wounds and tells us that they were, for the most part, mere scratches. Only two of the wounds could have caused death and everything else is just window dressing. Where you get that they are "...more in common with the later canonical Ripper killings than the first ones did." is beyond me. Perhaps this is just your bias again but the wounds suffered by Brown bare no relation to the wounds suffered by Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. Not in severity nor in scope.
"At this point he seems (to me at least) to have been on a mission to try to naysay everything Mike has come up with."
If "what Mike has come up with" is incorrect or misleading am I, and any other researcher, supposed to just say nothing? Do you really want to stifle opposing points of view just because you and your friend don't like it? Apparently there can be no other opinions than Dan and Mike's is that it? I don't recall you complaining that posters were on a mission to naysay everything Patricia Cornwell has come up with. Even though people with opposing views seems to bother you.
Apparently your whole post was a bit of a joke with the punchline being "I just thought that I'd be an independent voice." Now that's funny.
Wolf.
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Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 12:35 am: | |
Having read several dissertations in the last couple of days... I have a quick question that needs clearing up.
Does the "Arbie La Bruckman" that the NYPD arrested briefly at a lodging house match the description of the "C. Kniclo" who was seen at the East River Hotel the night previous and with the bloodied man at the Glenmore hotel? Fair skin, light moustache, german accent, long nose?
As well, why would La Bruckman tell the NYPD that he was arrested in relation to the murders in Whitechapel in 1888 unless it was true? Why would someone make that up? Especially given the circumstances under which he was being questioned! It just makes no sense at all to me.
Chris |
Chris Michetti
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 17, 2004 - 12:30 pm: | |
I'm also curious about something else - if it is possible to know when those National Line boats were docked in New York or Whitechapel... isn't it also possible to tell on what day they left? If so, that would be interesting. If I was the Ripper I would most likely "rip" such that the next morning I would be on a boat out of town. I wonder if these murder dates corresponded to the night before La Bruckman would head for his boat out of town...
Like on the day he was arrested in Whitechapel (so he says) while making his way to the port to catch his boat that was leaving the area... He claims it was around Christmas. Were there any deaths around Christmas 1888? (I hope I haven't confused the date, it could have been 1889) |
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