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Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 178
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 6:24 am: |       |
Browsing at FreeBMD, I was surprised to see another Aaron Kosminski:
Aaron Efron Kosminski, birth registered 3rd quarter 1890, St. Geo. East (ref. 1c 365).
Just a coincidence, or could it possibly be a nephew of Aaron the suspect?
Looking in the 1901 census index, I don't see this Aaron, but there is an Aaron "Kominski", 15, Boot Maker, born Whitechapel, living St George in the East.
I haven't looked at the full entry, but I did another search for Kominski in St George in the East, and it looks as though Aaron is probably the son of Jacob and Dinah, both born Russia, Russian subjects, children born Whitechapel aged 17 down to 12, and born St George in the East 10 down to 5.
The Whitechapel connection is tempting, but I'm doubtful whether this Aaron "Kominski" is the Aaron Efron Kosminski whose birth was registered in 1890, because of the discrepancy of age, and the fact that FreeBMD has matching births for 2 of the 6 children, also under "Kominski".
Nevertheless, I wonder if Aaron Efron could be worth looking into as a possible relative?
Chris Phillips
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John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 3:46 am: | |
Chris
I also saw Aaron Efron Kosminski born St Georges in the East in 1890. I have ordered a copy of his birth certigficate and will post the details when to hand.
Have you noticed also in Philip Sugden's Complete History of JTR 2nd edition page 404 - Aaron Kosminski's mother was living at 63 New Street New Road Whitechapel in 1894. So why was Aaron not living with her at home when he was committed to Colney Hatch in 1891? He was it seems according to Sugden and Mark King, living with brother or brother-in law Woolf Abrahams at that time. Since Aaron was belived to have been born in 1864 or 1865, his mother must have been born around 1850 at he latest. The 1901 census shows only 2 possible candidates. Leah Kosminski wife of Woolf, Russian subject, at 26 Batty Gardens, St Georges in the East (RG13 310 ff153 page 53) and
Augusta, wife of Martin Kosminski at 48 Berners Street Marylebone (RG13 106 ff28 page 6). Augusta was previously Augusta Barnett born London in 1852. I am searching further. Interested? |
John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 9:35 am: | |
Aaron Efran Kosminski was born at 25 Umberston Street, Whitechapel on 9th September 1890, to Samael Kosminski (this is the spelling on the birth certificate) , occupation boot finisher, and Leher (formerly Viclofski) Kosminski. Birth registered 17th September 1890. Umberston Street exists to this day, between Commercial Road and Cable Street.
Samael could, possibly, have been the Samuel Kosminski, brother of Martin Kosminski in the 1881 census but this is by no means certain. Samuel, brother of Martin, is shown in both the 1881 and 1901 census as a furrier, not a boot finisher, According to the BMD website Samuel married in 1902.
As well as the original Aaron Kosminski, born around 1864, who shows up in the 1901 census at Levesden Asylum, where his name is spelt Kozminsi with a “z”, the same census also shows an Aaron Kominski, (different spelling of the surname) stated to be age 15, boot maker, born London Whitechapel. I cannot find in the birth registers on-line an Aaron Kominski or Kosminski born in 1885 or 1886 which would make him a match for this one. Could he have been the same man as Aaron Efran Kosminski born in 1890? The problem here is that Aaron Kominski, age 15, turns up in the 1901 census at 14 Upper Chapman street, St Georges in the East, but his parents were Jacob Kominski, also a Boot maker, born Russia (not Poland) and Jacob’s wife Dinah Kominski (census reference RG13 piece 309 folio 148 page 14). This family also included Millie Kominski. 17, recorder as born Whitechapel, Samuel, 12, Sarah 10, Isaac, 7 and Annie, 5 all born in London.. Sarah and Isaac Kominski’s births can be found on the FreeBMD rootsweb site but the other Kominski children in this family cannot. Evidently more than one Kominski, as distinct from Kosminski, family lived in the East End. According to the census the Kominski’s originally came from Russia or Romania.
The extended Kosminski family, with variants of this name, are not always easy to pin down over time, although with such a distinctive name they should be easy to trace. Neither MacNaghten or Swanson identified their suspect Kosminski precisely, which leads me to ask if their suspect was some other Kosminski (or a variant of that name) and they were confused into believing that their suspect was the same Aaron Kosminski, and not a different member of the family, and who ended in Colney Hatch and then Leavesden asylums. He certainly does not the type who would have been JTR.
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Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 311
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 12:41 pm: | |
John Carey
Thank you for posting the interesting information about Aaron Efron Kosminski.
On Kosminski's mother, Chris Scott posted a week or two ago that he had found her in the 1901 census. I have searched for this post and can't now find it, but from memory she was called [?]Colda Abrahams and was living with Morris Lubnowski/Cohen and Aaron's sister Matilda, and was described as wife's mother.
Chris Phillips
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Natalie Severn
Chief Inspector
Username: Severn
Post Number: 860
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 25, 2004 - 3:32 pm: | |
Thanks for the information on the Kosminski"s John.Hope more turns up because its still confusing.I wish we knew more about Martin as well as Samuel.
Natalie |
John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 6:05 am: | |
On the topic of a Mrs Kosminski alive in 1894 and old enough to be the mother of the Aaron Kosminski who was born 1864 or 1865, I have found another possibility.
Her married surname was Kosminski, not Abrahams. She was Mrs Genandel Kosminski, wife of Ytzrak Kosminski, journeyman tailor, of 38 Blakesley Street, St Georges in the East. She died age 62 on 11 September 1896. from cancer of the liver and exhaustion. Death reported by S Bessman (?) son-in-law of 11 Rutland Street, Mile End. Death registered 12 September 1896.
Ytzrak Kosminski does not appear in the 1901 census. The plot thickens …………….
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OlivierD
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:29 pm: | |
Hi all,
It is my first post here and I find this site is simply fascinating. I only regret that there are no more discussions about kosminski.
My question is the following: Is it possible to identify from where (i.e., from which region) the name "Kosminski" come? It is intriguing that this name is quite rare even in Poland. If you enter the name "Kosminski" in google.pl, you obtain 62 entries. The name "Kosminsky" gives about 350 entries (but almost all for the film maker Peter Kosminsky). By comparison, there are more than 11000 entries for "Kaminski" and 35000 for Cohen. My point is then that it is possible, or even probable, that all the kosminski in London come, in fact, from the same village or town. The fact that some 'kosminski' seem to come from Poland and others from Russia is not relevant since Poland was occupied by Russia at this time. It could explain a relationship between Martin, Aaron or Isaac Kosminski.
Thank you for your comments and sorry for my grammatical mistakes (it is not my first language)
Olivier |
OlivierD
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:28 pm: | |
Hi all,
It is my first post here and I find this site is simply fascinating. I only regret that there are no more discussions about kosminski.
My question is the following: Is it possible to identify from where (i.e., from which region) the name "Kosminski" come? It is intriguing that this name is quite rare even in Poland. If you enter the name "Kosminski" in google.pl, you obtain 62 entries. The name "Kosminsky" gives about 350 entries (but almost all for the film maker Peter Kosminsky). By comparison, there are more than 11000 entries for "Kaminski" and 35000 for Cohen. My point is then that it is possible, or even probable, that all the kosminski in London come, in fact, from the same village or town. The fact that some 'kosminski' seem to come from Poland and others from Russia is not relevant since Poland was occupied by Russia at this time. It could explain a relationship between Martin, Aaron or Isaac Kosminski.
Thank you for your comments and sorry for my grammatical mistakes (it is not my first language)
Olivier |
OlivierD
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 1:42 am: | |
Hi,
In my preceding post, I noted that the name "Kosminski" is very rare. In fact, the name "Lubnowski" (or "Lubnowsky" or "Lubnovski") is even rarer. There are 4 or 5 entries in google (including those for Morris Lubnowski).
This raises an important question: is it possible to find the name of Lubnowski in the current phonebook of London? If yes, the proability is very high that this person is a descendant of Morris Lubnowski.
I cannot obtain the phone book of London from where I live. But I would like to have your opinion about that. Have you ever tried to contact one of these possible descendants (if they exist)? It is a very straightforward way to obtain information on the Lubnowski-Kosminski family, and why not, find a photo of Aaron.
All the best,
Olivier |
OlivierD
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 1:42 am: | |
Hi,
In my preceding post, I noted that the name "Kosminski" is very rare. In fact, the name "Lubnowski" (or "Lubnowsky" or "Lubnovski") is even rarer. There are 4 or 5 entries in google (including those for Morris Lubnowski).
This raises an important question: is it possible to find the name of Lubnowski in the current phonebook of London? If yes, the proability is very high that this person is a descendant of Morris Lubnowski.
I cannot obtain the phone book of London from where I live. But I would like to have your opinion about that. Have you ever tried to contact one of these possible descendants (if they exist)? It is a very straightforward way to obtain information on the Lubnowski-Kosminski family, and why not, find a photo of Aaron.
All the best,
Olivier |
D. Radka
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 12:08 pm: | |
This is a good thread. To the best of my knowledge, no one has been able to definitively identify Aaron's mother. Apparently, immigration records show him arriving in England with his two sisters, but not his parents. There is an asylum record regarding I believe a transfer of Aaron from one institution to another that shows a "Mrs. Kosminski" as his next of kin, assumed to be Aaron's mother and no first name given, but this person may have been one of Aaron's sisters posing as his mother in order to lubricate the transfer process. Keep in mind Aaron's sisters were considerably older than Aaron, and in a pinch could act the role of his mother if needed. There have, in short, never been found any records whatever concerning who Aaron's parents were, what their names were, where they lived, whatever may have happened to them, if they ever came to England, or if they ever had anything to do with Aaron's life after he came. This doesn't mean that we may not have these records, but are as yet unable to link them to Aaron.
Keep up the good work!
David
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John Carey
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 - 9:10 am: | |
Another strange finding. As we know, Aaron Kosminski had supposedly been a hairdresser although he had not attempted work for years before his committal to Colney Hatch in 1891.
His subsequent transfer to Leavesden asylum in 1894 is shown in the 1901 census which states he was born in London Mile End, not Poland. The census spells his name Kozminski with a “z”.
The 1901 census for 8 Upper Baker Street, Marylebone shows a Daniel Kozminski Russian subject, born Poland (same spelling of the surname) age 43, also a hairdresser and employer (implying others worked in his hairdresser’s shop), his wife Rosa Kozminski, 42 also born Poland, and daughter Bessie Kozminski age 20; noted as Russian subject born London Marylebone. Bessie is, though, not listed in the births on the BMD Rootsweb and she may have been born in Poland as well before the family came to London. Registration of births was compulsory in England and Wales at the time Bessie was born.
Same spelling, same occupation for Aaron and Daniel.. Is there a connection? The Upper Baker Street address was close enough for Sherlock Holmes to investigate. (Census reference RG13 piece 116 folio 125 page 31).
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Robert W. House
Detective Sergeant
Username: Robhouse
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 6:30 am: | |
Scott posted this scan of the 1901 Census record for the Lubnowski family which lists Golda as "wife's mother", i.e. the mother of Matilda Lubnowski (nee Kosminski). Assuming Matilda is Aaron's sister, then Golda is also Aaron's mother. Her age is listed as 82, so she would have been born in 1819 or thereabouts.
Rob House |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1520
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 9:50 am: | |
In this discussion on other Kosminskis, I am posting for reference list of all entries under the spelling KOSMINSKI currently available from FreeBMD:
Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Births Mar 1871
Kosminski Esther Birmingham 6d 69
Marriages Jun 1872
KOSMINSKI Martin London C. 1c 178
Births Mar 1873
KOSMINSKI Charles Shoreditch 1c 139
Births Dec 1874
Kosminski Jessie Shoreditch 1c 106
Deaths Mar 1878
Kosminski Sarah 73 Whitechapel 1c 240
Marriages Dec 1886
KOSMINSKI Emily London C. 1c 141
Deaths Dec 1888
Kosminski Elsa 53 Lambeth 1d 336
Births Mar 1890
Kosminski Bella St. Geo. East 1c 374
Marriages Mar 1890
KOSMINSKI Louis Fulham 1a 426
Births Sep 1890
Kosminski Aaron Efron St. Geo. East 1c 365
Deaths Sep 1891
Kosminski Julius 0 St Geo. East 1c 233
Deaths Dec 1891
KOSMINSKI Yetta 0 St Geo East 1c 272
Births Mar 1892
Kosminski Isaac St. Geo. East 1c 400
Births Sep 1892
Kosminski Dora St. Geo. East 1c 393
Births Dec 1892
Kosminski Rachel Whitechapel 1c 290
Deaths Mar 1893
Kosminski Abram 40 St Geo East 1c 285
Births Jun 1893
Kosminski Morris St. Geo. East 1c 337
Births Jun 1894
Kosminski Sime St. Geo. East 1c 365
Kosminski Surie St. Geo. East 1c 365
Births Sep 1894
Kosminski Esther St. Geo. East 1c 318
Births Jun 1895
Kosminski Simon St.Geo.East 1c 384
Marriages Jun 1895
Kosminski Rebecca Birmingham 6d 361
Births Jun 1896
Kosminski Rosa St Geo East 1c 376
Deaths Sep 1896
Kosminski Genandel 62 St. Geo. East 1c 249
Births Mar 1897
Kosminski Rachel St.Geo.East 1c 354
Births Mar 1899
Kosminski Barnett St Geo East 1c 377
Births Sep 1899
Kosminski Mariam St Geo. East 1c 355
Deaths Sep 1899
Kosminski Esther 6 St George in the East 1c 283
Marriages Mar 1902
Kosminski Jessie Marylebone 1a 1094
Marriages Jun 1902
KOSMINSKI Samuel Whitechapel 1c 442
Deaths Sep 1902
Kosminski Hyman 0 St Geo H Sq 1a 211
Deaths Dec 1902
Kosminski Betsy 1 Mile End 1c 293
Births Mar 1903
Kosminski Henschel St. Geo. East 1c 360
Marriages Jun 1903
Kosminski Rebecca Mile End 1c 799
Births Sep 1903
Kosminski Barnet Mile End Old Town 1c 453
Marriages Dec 1903
Kosminski Annie Whitechapel 1c 514
Kosminski Myer Whitechapel 1c 514
Marriages Dec 1909
KOSMINSKI Rachel Whitechapel 1c 483
Marriages Sep 1915
KOSMINSKI Esther RUBERY W Bromwich 6b 1988
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Scott Nelson
Detective Sergeant
Username: Snelson
Post Number: 95
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 20, 2004 - 3:29 pm: | |
Researcher John Carey mentions one Maurice Kosminski in discussing the steady influx of Kosminskis from Poland into London during the last two decades of the nineteenth century (letter published in Ripperana No. 50, October 2004). Very little has been written about Maurice Kosminski, other than that he had a baker’s shop at no. 70 Berner Street.
Maurice Kosminski does not appear in the 1881 London census, but in the 1891 census, he is listed as a 28 year-old master baker, born in (Russian) Poland, with his wife Rebecca, aged 26, son Israel, aged 2 and daughter Betsy, aged 1. Both children were born in London (St. Georges), suggesting that Maurice and his wife had been in London since at least 1889 [RG12, St. George East, Parish North, piece 284, folio 135, p. 14].
Number 70 was on the west side of Berner Street between the crossroads of Boyd and Everard Streets. This premise was about 125 yards south of the gates opening to Dutfield’s Yard at the International Workingmen’s Education Club at No. 40 Berner Street.
The 1888 Post Office directory shows that a Louis Freedman ran the baker’s shop at no. 70, but by the following year Maurice is listed at this premise. We don’t know specifically when Freedman left the shop and Maurice moved in. It is conceivable that Freedman could have left sometime in early 1888 since his name does not show up on the directory for this address in the following year. Thus, the possibility remains that Maurice may have lived at no. 70 Berner street during the Autumn 1888 terror. This possibility has particular significance in view of the fact that a witness, Israel Schwartz followed a “tipsy” man walking on the west side of Berner Street in a southerly direction on the night of September 30, 1888, moments before the man attacked Stride. The man’s route, had he not stopped where Stride was standing, would have taken him directly past no. 70, south of Dutfield’s Yard. Israel Schwartz lived at 22 Ellen Street near Backchurch Lane, less than 50 yards west of Maurice Kosminski, who lived around the corner.
Next door to no. 70 at no. 68 Berner Street was the “George IV”, a public house. The 1891 census shows that one Frederick Gray was the proprietor, although in 1888 the establishment was run by Edmund Farrow. Another witness, William Marshall, who saw a couple (the woman he later verified as Stride), pass by his house while walking south at 12:45 am, lived two doors north of the George IV at no. 64.
Author Paul Begg viewed a Naturalistion Application for Maurice, which shows that he was born on September 19, 1863 in or near the town of Kalisz, Poland, the same town that two other Kosminski brothers living in London were born, Martin and Samuel. Maurice and his family stayed at no. 70 Berner Street until 1895, after which they moved to Christian Street. In the 1901 London census, Maurice (then “Morris”) and his family can be found at no. 36 Christian Street, only two streets west of Berner Street [RG13, St. George Division Tower Hamlets, piece 310, folio 176, p. 31].
A possible in-law of Maurice, Woolf Abrahams, lived at 45 Boyd Street, only 25 yards west of the corner to Berner Street, where the baker shop at no. 70 was located. In 1881 Woolf was an unmarried Polish tailor, aged 18, who was lodging with Moses Abrahams [RG11, piece 453, folio 73, p. 38]. Could Woolf have been the future husband of Betsy Kosminski, one of Aaron Kosminski’s sisters? [see RG12, Mile End New Town piece 301, folio 122, p.41.]
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