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Peter Sipka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 6:15 am: |       |
Thomas John Barnardo:
Born: July 4th, 1845
Ripper suspect
(Message edited by Peter on December 27, 2003) |
Jennifer D. Pegg
Inspector
Username: Jdpegg
Post Number: 172
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 10:57 am: | |
care to elaborate, perhaps he is a something suspect ike strong, weak or unlikely or likely or indifferent opion about whether or not he is a good... suspect
cheers
jennifer |
Andy and Sue Parlour
Detective Sergeant
Username: Tenbells
Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 2:57 pm: | |
Hello Jennifer,
Dr Barnardo was thrown in as a suspect (wrongly) many years ago. In fact the image of JTR portrayed in the media wearing a top hat, cape and carrying a Gladstone bag is actually based on the good man, as he wore those very clothes, and carried such a bag. The Doctor was often out on the streets at night doing his charitable work.
He was taken by the police to view and identify the body of Elizabeth Stride at the St George's in the East morgue. Barnardo had spoken to her on the night prior to her death in Berner Street at the kitchen of a lodging house in Flower and Dean Street. So concerned about the plight of these poor wretched women he decided to help in any way he could.
He purchased a house in Flower and Dean Street and opened another in Dock Street and let it be known that on no account no young girl be turned away from a nights lodging. A bed could be obtained at either shelter for a penny a night,
Needless to say the beds in these shelters were always full, and many a terrified women fled from the dark and manacing streets to seek shelter.
Doctor Barnardo was only to willing to help the police in any way he could, so was interviewed several times. This led to the notion that he could have been JTR.
Andy P. |
Peter Sipka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 100
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 5:00 pm: | |
Jennifer/Andy,
Unfortunately, that is only one side of the story. There is a much different character in Dr. Barnardo.
Yes, in some aspects, Dr. Barnardo was a good guy. He helped the unfortunate children and cared for them, but the darker side of him has some people suspecting he was Jack the Ripper.
When Dr. B was young he suffered emotional abuse and neglect from his parents. Later on in his life while helping the children, Barnardo had to face a terrible rumor about him: he was being accused of having sex with a married woman and also getting involved with a prostitute.
Motive
He hated prostitutes. He hated their lifestyle and he hated what they did to their own children.
So people say that because of that Dr. B wanted to make a statement. To grab the attention of all the classes of London.
In order to do that, he had to kill however many women to accomplish that goal. If he was Jack the Ripper, I’d say he completed it.
Another group he hated were Roman Catholics.
To answer your question Jennifer, I have not heard much about him from many Ripperologists so I’m guessing he’s considered a weak suspect.
In my opinion as a suspect, I can say he is in the middle. The fact that he actually came in contact with Stride is puzzling. That also shows you he knew who was who in the community. And if he was the murderer, he could have had a good conversation with Stride and then show his true colors by murdering her.
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1667
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 5:46 pm: | |
There's a chapter about Dr Barnardo by Gary Rowlands in the Mammoth book.
Robert |
Peter Sipka
Detective Sergeant
Username: Peter
Post Number: 103
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 27, 2003 - 5:48 pm: | |
Jennifer/Andy,
As Robert had just mentioned, I quote this from The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper. This is a citation from Gary Rowlands who had a piece in the book. Also, there is a quote from Dr. Barnardo too:
“Initially, Barnardo had tried to help the local prostitutes and had for several years held special evening surgeries of a deeply religious tone for their exclusive benefit. However, his attitude towards them (no doubt prompted by the Mrs. Johnson affair) had begun to change and by the mid-1880’s had developed into an almost pathological hatred of them and their kind. And he was now blaming their vile influence for the high levels of child prostitution in the area: ‘In the vilest haunts of women of shameful lives, in “’furnished rooms”’ where decency and virtue are disregarded, if not mocked at, in those low lodging houses which are the hot-beds of immorality and vice, are to be found many virtually unshielded girls of tender years whose dangers cannot be thought of without a shudder’”
I don't know how to link correctly, but if you type in "Dr. Barnardo" at "Search" on the left side of your screen, you'll find a letter he wrote to The Times.
(Message edited by Peter on December 27, 2003) |
Chris Scott
Chief Inspector
Username: Chris
Post Number: 800
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
the immorality charges were one among many levelled against him- how believable these are is now difficult to judge. the quote below may be of interest:
A range of accusations were thrown at Barnardo. These included that:
... that the homes were badly managed; that the boys were cruelly treated; that the children and the Homes were specially prepared for the arrival of visitors; that the children suffered from disease, the consequence of the the neglect of simple sanitary precautions, and of poor diet; that there was scarcely any religious or moral training; that the Doctor's stories of rescues were grossly exagerated, and the photographs he published were faked and therefore deceptive.
Of Barnardo himself it was said that he had no claim to the title of 'Doctor', and that he had improperly appropriated part of the funds received for the Homes to his own use and benefit. He was even charged with immorality. (Williams 1953: 110)
The scale and range of the charges was such that Barnardo called upon his Trustees to examine the situation. But this examination did not satisfy criticism and with the publication of a booklet Dr Barnardo's Homes: Startling revelations it was clear that stronger action was needed. Thomas Barnardo was opposed to instituting an action for libel and instead opted for arbitration under an Order of Court. In October 1877, the Arbitrators issued a substantial document which stated that they were unanimous in their decision that there was no evidence to support the serious charges laid against him. They were critical, however, of his methods in some areas - and of the fact that at that time he had no proper Committee overseeing his work and that of the homes. However, as we have seen, even though he then organized a committee, there were times when he run roughshod over its decisions.
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shelley wiltshire
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 10:00 pm: | |
Dr Barnardo was taken to court 3 times about the way he dealt with Kidnapping children from cruel parents, infact the way that he conducted his affairs attributed to laws being past, so that parents didn't have sole oversight of their children, but that the law reformed and put the rights of the child before the parents. I do not think that Dr Barnardo should have evr been put on the ripper suspect list, he came into contact with far more prostitutes than any one client, and had ample opportunity to 'do away' with' more than 5 times as many or more than the actual ripper 'did away with'. At the moment i'm toying with the idea, that the ripper may well have been the father of a kidnapped child that was forced into vice, as i do not think that Mary Kelly actually had a child of her own, she had been in vice for a long time up until 1888, she had also been under Mrs Travers in the west-end and most west-end brothels at the time were full of children. They went to great lengths to disguise child prostitution, but they went to great lengths to procure these children, even kidnapping children fom middle-class backgrounds , they used decoys to whisk children away from finishing school, or on the way to school, or from sunday school. I wonder who the 10 -11 year old boy called Michael staying with Mary Kelly really was?
Dr Barnardo saw and spoke to Liz Stride on the wednesday before she was found dead, he spoke to her in a kitchen at 32 flower & dean street. |
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