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Carl Burrows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 6:34 am: |       |
Please forgive me if this question has been raised previously, but I cant see it directly.
But has anyone considered contacting victims or even JTR himself using a good medium.
Now I know this is likely to court even more sceptism than the usual theories discussed on the messageboards, but I dont know about you, but I'm sort of a sceptical person on these matters, but when I watch programs like Most Haunted or Passing Over, on satelite, the accuracy of the mediums takes me aback.
I think there was a medium called Lees in Knightley's Final solution,and I think I read on A Barnett thread about someone contacting Mary Anne Kelly, but if someone like Derrick Acorra could get in touch with one of the 5 victims, who knows, a little nugget of information could come up that could shed new light on the case, Perhaps Catherine Eddows ghost is stalking Mitre Square waiting for contact to reveal all!.  }} |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 202
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:48 am: | |
"Jack the Ripper: A Psychic Investigation" by Pamela Ball. Out of print but you'll probably find it second hand on Amazon. |
Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 178
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
Carl,
Interesting idea. Personally I don't think it would do any good. First of all I think there have been people who tried this, but I think the whole thing is rubbish. Just my personal opinion. My boyfriend's sister went to a medium and she managed to con her out of £800 before fleeing the country so NEVER trust a medium. Good words of advice. Anyway you don't need to seek a medium to see or speak to ghosts.
Sarah |
Donald Souden
Sergeant
Username: Supe
Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:48 am: | |
Sarah,
More good advice: If you visit a medium and she begins to laugh give her a good smite. You know what they say: "Always try to strike a happy medium." Groan.
Don. |
Mark Andrew Pardoe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Picapica
Post Number: 147
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 6:00 pm: | |
Well Sarah, you could always get your boyfriend's sister to ask another medium to find the first medium and if that one boggers off, get a third medium. I suppose she will then be dealing with the media. Ha ha ha ha. Oh well, please yourself.
Cheers, Cheerful Cheeky Mark |
Sarah Long
Inspector
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 235
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 7:16 am: | |
Don and Mark,
Oh how I groaned. |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 739
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 7:42 am: | |
Sarah, tut tut!
I don't agree with you at all, since I think you are judging the whole thing out of one incident (which I agree was not an enjoyable one). Of course, there are a lot of con figures in the medium business, and it is indeed hard to find a good one.
But I have used mediums myself (one of them is a personal friend of mine), and with an extremely good result. Once it was a complete disaster, but that medium wasn't a known or licensed one. You should always check up on them, which by all means take a lot of work.
But otherwise it's been very helpful, and if the medium is a serious one, he or she doesen't want to have any kind of information from you and hardly charge you anything. If a medium starts to ask you questions or charging a lot of money -- watch out!
Of course, this approach is based on the fact that one believes in the spirit world -- which I do -- but I am also a sceptic in many ways, and it is important to be one when you contact a medium, to avoid "cold" or "warm reading". If you haven't told the psychic medium anything about the matter (and doesen't respond to what the medium says), and he or she confirms very detailed information only you can know about, I consider it a serious one.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
carl Burrows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 4:03 pm: | |
Some good points as always Glenn !
I agree, as in all walks of life e.g builders, mechanics etc, there are people all too ready to make a quick kill,but there are also a lot genuine folk,the same goes for mediums. I think the high profile of the JTR case should warrent a world renowned expert in his or her field.
I am relatively new to the case,I'm on my third book,and I visit this site daily,I'm really hooked,
but I have come to the conclusion we will never know for sure,and I just thought after life contact would be another approach, even though maybe other people have attempted it.
But what I will state is I am definite believer in the afterlife. I know too many genuine people whom I trust, who have had unexplainable experiences,including my wife.
As old Mulder said to Skully "the truth is out there" ! |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 752
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 7:29 pm: | |
Thank you, Carl,
I like your reasoning as well. Of course one should be a sceptic about things that can't be proven in the word's strict sense, but then again -- who says that our scientific knowledge has all the answers? So, like you, I prefer to keep an open mind to things that lies beyond our natural conceptions. And I base it merely on my own personal experiences, not scientific proof. So I can only fully agree with you. Indeed, "the truth is out there" (although possibly beyond our reach).
And I guess you are right in your conclusion as well; it is probably fair to assume that we will never see a clean solution to the Ripper mystery.
And it is indeed easy to get hooked here -- Stephen's done a wonderful job concieving this site.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 271
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 10:59 am: | |
Found this this morning in The Irish Times, 10th October 1888
An extraordinary statement bearing upon the Whitechapel tragedies was made to the Cardiff police to-day by a respectable looking elderly woman, who stated that she was a Spiritualist, and in company with five other persons held a seance on Saturday night. They summoned the spirit of Elizabeth Stride, and after some delay the spirit came, and in answer to questions stted that her murderer was a middle-aged man whose name she mentioned, and who resided at a given number in Commercial road or street, Whitechapel, and who belonged to a gang of twelve. |
Alexander Chisholm
Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
Hi Alan
I found your find particularly interesting as an example of the recycling of newspaper reports. In addition to appearing in the Irish Times on 10th October, this report was published in the Daily Telegraph, 8th Oct., page 5, and the East London Advertiser, 13th Oct. page 5, to name but two.
This is how the Daily Telegraph 8th Oct. 1888, reported it:
An extraordinary statement bearing upon the Whitechapel tragedies was made to the Cardiff police yesterday by a respectable-looking elderly woman, who stated that she was a “Spiritualist,” and in company with five other persons held a seance on Saturday night. They summoned the spirit of Elizabeth Stride, and after some delay it came, and, in answer to questions, stated that her murderer was a middle-aged man whose name she mentioned, and who resided at a given number in Commercial-road or street, Whitechapel, and who belonged to a gang of twelve.
The only difference here seems to be the date the “Spiritualist” reported her seance to the police.
Best Wishes
alex
|
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 272
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 3:31 pm: | |
It's not really a great surprise with a paper like The Irish Times. They could only have had a very small staff in London so a great deal of their reporting had to have been taken from the wire services or lifted from other newspapers. It is noticeable, looking through the papers of the period, that the moment the Parnell Commission opened, reporting on the Whitechapel murders, which had been extensive, virtually ground to a halt presumably because all the London reporters were now otherwise engaged at the hearings. |
Alexander Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 51
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 8:18 pm: | |
Far from surprising, I agree Alan – even London-based newspapers appear to have drawn heavily from a common stock of reports – but worth noting nonetheless.
As for extensive coverage of Whitechapel murders, it seems to me that this had been going the way of the Dodo for some time before the Parnell Commission began to keep journalists off the streets.
Best Wishes
alex
|
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 474
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 2:48 pm: | |
Hi, Alan and Alex:
Contrary to what you were saying, Alan, that the Irish Times reporters in London picked up the report of the seance, I think it more likely that the editor in Dublin picked up the report directly from a London newspaper since the Daily Telegraph ran the report on 8 October two days before the Irish Telegraph, or else from wire reports.
All the best
Chris |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 274
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 5:56 pm: | |
Chris,
That's actually what I meant. The Irish Times could only have had a very small staff in London and that staff would therefore only be able to send in a certain amount of copy per day. Everything else would have been acquired from other sources. Even their own reports seem to have been cobbled together from various sources. In the report on the Annie Chapman murder they give about four different explanations for the leather apron found hanging up all in the one report. It just keeps going round in circles and is amazingly frustrating to read. It seems like every time someone told them something new they just threw it into the story and then sent the whole lot off without anyone proofreading it. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1562
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
Hi Alan
Did this paper give heavy coverage of the Kelly murder? I was wondering whether any relatives of Kelly (I read somewhere that at some point her mother returned to Ireland)would have been in a position where it would have been impossible for them not to have heard about it, even if they lived out in the country.
Robert |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 276
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 7:40 pm: | |
Robert
The paper gave coverage to it but not as heavy as the previous crimes. This is mainly, as I said, because by then the Parnell Commission had begun and as far as Ireland was concerned this WAS the news, on some days you would have thought nothing else was happening anywhere in the world.
I have to say that is one thing I didn't think about, but I will have to nip back down to the Newspaper archive and take a look through some of the local Limerick papers for the few weeks after the Kelly murder and see how the local connection got handled. |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1565
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 14, 2003 - 7:52 pm: | |
OK, Alan, thanks.
Robert |
Bob Hinton
Inspector
Username: Bobhinton
Post Number: 161
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 5:08 pm: | |
Interesting discussion. I do actually use a psychic myself to investigate certain murders. One of the more well known cases was that of Jill Dando, when we were asked by a national newspaper to investigate the case.
I have also used her in several other cases, some of which appear in my next book.
The information she has given me is amazingly accurate - so how does she do it? I don't know. I do know that she did tell me something once that only myself and four other people in the world are aware of, it was something that happened over twenty years ago in another country yet she nailed it spot on.
I know that she has helped several police forces with difficult murder cases, I have seen the correspondence from them. She has recently been helping the Garda and the Japanese police with some of their cases.
Bob |
Glenn L Andersson
Chief Inspector
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 785
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 15, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
Interesting to see that I am not the only one here who have used psychics in an investigation -- and who have the guts to admit it. The subject is not totally uncontroversial.
The problem is -- how do one deal with it as a source of information? For a great deal of people such a source would hardly be considered reliable. However, one way is to use psychics to point the direction to other physical evidence that are missing or one didn't know existed -- that is how I have done it mostly. But also for putting my own personal thoughts and curiosity to rest concerning the case.
And I agree that the information delivered from a psychic can be amazingly accurate, at least that is what my experience tells me. And I can only second to what Hinton says: I have received information myself that only I could know about or what is hidden in documents in my own drawers. That is indeed an intriguing experience.
All the best
Glenn L Andersson
Crime historian, Sweden |
Jeff Leahy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 7:40 am: | |
Hi Carl
Caught your posting with great intrerest. Largely because I am currently working with two well known mediums (giving their time free) for a serious investigation into the case.
The problem as you say is varifying that the information you gain is accurate, coming up with something that can be substantuated like Kelly's birth cirtificate is the aim. However what is interesting from a program point of veiw is it allows us to visit murder sites, graves etc and explore the facts in a very unique way. I'm particuly excited about the 3D models of the murder scenes we have managed to constuct filling in the gaps like colour and smell via the mediums. Whether you beleive or not doesn't really matter, we can explore facts about the case without getting bogged down with proving Mr X or Mr Y did it, which is usually the case with programs about the Ripper.
Were hoping to come up with something far more visually exciting than Barlow and Watts 1970's investigation.
Particularly looking forward to the readings with known desendents of the victims tomorrow. Of course there will never be enough proof for those that do not beleive but if the psychics manage to turn up one new peice of information the experiment would have been worth while.
Hopefully the program will give our experts a platform to discuss the facts of the case in a way that will be interesting to even the hardest sceptic. (I might add that our Ripperologists are very sceptical but at least willing to give it a go and analize the facts which makes great TV.)
Hopefully when its finally edited it will satisfy your curiosity and I for one am very excited about the project and have learned loads about the case exploring the facts from a new perspective.
Did you know for instance that another similar murder took place above 13 Millers court in 1909?
Still while the search is in itself going to make interesting veiwing we have no way of knowing if anything substancial will come out of the investigation until it takes place and these things, like most, just take time and hard work.
Hopefully we'll have something to satisfy your curiosity next year.
Yours jeff Leahy |
Carl Burrows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 17, 2003 - 4:40 am: | |
Thanks for the info jeff,
I look forward with great interest!
Which channel is it likely to be on? |
Carl Burrows
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 12:00 pm: | |
Hi all.
I thought I'd share this
I mentioned in my initial post( Nov 2003),that it would be a good idea to get a high profile psychic investigator to investigate the case of JTR, just to see if any new info or clues could be revealed.
Not everyone believes in this sort of thing, but I believe it is an interesting option.
I mentioned the ideal guy for the job would be Derek Acorah ( the star of "Most Haunted, a TV show that airs on satelite TV in the UK ,( think the Whoopi goldberg character in the movie "Ghost" and you have an idea of Dereks trance like state when investigating at a haunted site).
and lo and behold, I came across a book by Derek Acorah entitled "The psychic investigations of Derek Acorah" and a small chapter entitled "Jack the Ripper,on Element publishing.
.
Derek accompanied by Donald Rumbelow went to 2 murder sites as part of a ISPR team (International society of paranormal research),
they visited Mitre square and Bucks Row.
I don't wish to get into trouble for copyright infingement,by revealing too many details, but basically Derek drifted back in time and saw Catherine Eddowes dressed in shabby clothing,pointed to the spot where she lost her life and also sees a bloood stained woman with face slashed and ear hanging off, in Bucks row.
He states the same foul stench attacked his nostrils on both occasions.
He gives many other details, some involving his idea of the murderer or murderers.
It is a very interesting read!along with JTR many other cases and interesting aspects of his paranormal gifts are detailed. |
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