| Author |
Message |
    
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 969
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 11:29 pm: |       |
G'day,
I am looking for anything on 'Buller's Lodging House' New Street, Bishopsgate Street, as that is where Joseph Barnett said he spent all night at while Mary Jane Kelly was being murdered. I can't find a description of it anywhere. Can anyone help me????????
The only things I know, are that it was called: 'Mr. Buller's' by one newspaper and it was near: 'St. Katharine Dock' and apparently opposite Bishopsgate Police Station. Did it have another name?
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 972
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 3:23 am: | |
G'day,
I asked a Victorian London website if they could help me find a description of 'Buller's Lodging house', near St. Katharine Dock, and they couldn't help. It must have had another name.
LEANNE |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 1437
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 3:44 am: | |
Hi Leanne
I'm sure I've seen it referred to as Mrs Buller's, but I can't remember where.
Robert |
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 439
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:37 am: | |
LEANNE,
I reside at 24 and 25 New Street Bishopsgate which is a common lodging house. I am a labourer and have been a fish porter. I now live…”
Any help??
For what its worth St Katherines dock is not near enough Bishopsgate to be confused with the two areas.
Have you tried Bishopsgate within or Bishopsgate without ? The Station was/is in Bishopsgate without.
Monty
|
Monty
Inspector
Username: Monty
Post Number: 440
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:48 am: | |
LEANNE,
Just did a quick search.
New st is off Bishopsgate smack opposite Liverpool st station....underneath the 's' in Bishopstgate.
Monty
|
Luxy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:50 am: | |
Leanne
Kelly's 1873 Directory mentions a Buller's Row in London
Regards
Luxy |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 975
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 4:50 pm: | |
G'day Monty,
I took "24 and 25 New Street Bishopsgate", to mean "24 and 25, on the corner of New Street and Bishopsgate Street". Mr. or Mrs. Buller may have just been the name of the keeper, at that time.
LEANNE |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 7:07 pm: | |
Hi all
This is New Street, on the 1894 map. Bishopsgate Police Station is in Blue. And I drew a red line from New Street(on the left) to Dorset Street. A walk of about 3 to 4 minutes.
Rob |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 976
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:52 am: | |
G'day Rob,
That's exactly where Bruce Paley placed Buller's on his 1862 map: near a fire station, a school, 'Artillery Lane','Widegate Street', 'Bells Lane'.
'St. Katharine Dock' and the 'East India Depot' must have moved before 1894, because the 1862 map has it between the Police station and the Jew's Free School. I know, I'll try to post the map here.
LEANNE |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 173
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 5:09 am: | |
Hi Leanne
If you look at the bottom of Paley's map (underneath the number 3), there is the more well known 'St Katharine Dock'. This is probably the one your searches have been turning up.
Rob |
Alan Sharp
Inspector
Username: Ash
Post Number: 206
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 6:35 am: | |
Leanne,
It's quite common in Britain even today for an address to contain the name of the nearest major road as well as the road in which the building itself stands. My own address in Dublin contains the name of a road over a hundred yards away. I would assume that was the meaning of "New Street, Bishopsgate". |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 977
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 6:48 am: | |
G'day Rob,
Now I see it! So why are the words: 'E INDIA DEPOT' and: 'KATHARINE....DOCK' near Paley's number 12(Buller's)?
St. Katherine Dock has a website, should I ask them if they know anything about Victorian London history?
You obviously have Bruce Paley's map. I'm glad because I'm having trouble posting it here.
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 978
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 7:12 am: | |
G'day,
I was told to search through Charles Booth's notes, and the 'Guildhall library' Website.
LEANNE |
Alexander Chisholm
Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
Hi Leanne
I think what Paley’s map shows (beneath and to the right of the No. 12 indicating New Street) is the “E India Depot” and “St. Katharine Dock Co.” warehouses.
In the 1880 OS map of the district this area is labelled “Warehouses (London & St. Katharine Docks Co.)”
Best Wishes
alex
(Message edited by alex on December 02, 2003) |
Peter R. A. Birchwood
Sergeant
Username: Pbirchwood
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:34 pm: | |
The 1891 Census shows at 23 New Street William B. Buller, 46 a wood turner born St Giles London, his wife Eliza, 40 born St Giles and their children:Lilly, 21 Fanny 19, Florence 15, William 13, Harriet 11, Maria 9, Arthur 7, Violet unclear. The lodging house at 24/25 New Street next door had at the time of the census had 89 persons resident. |
Robert Clack
Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 174
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
Hi all
This is the detail from Paley's map, and it shows clearly the warehouses Alexander mentions above.
Rob |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 453
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 2:26 pm: | |
Hi, Leanne, Monty et al.:
Monty wrote: "For what its worth St Katherines dock is not near enough Bishopsgate to be confused with the two areas."
I think it should be clear by now from the maps that have been kindly posted by Alex and Rob that the reference is to warehouses owned by the 'London and St. Katharines Dock Co.' and the 'East India Depot' not to the docks themselves. That is, presumably goods that came in at the docks to the south of the warehouses were transported to these buildings for transhipment elsewhere.
Best regards
Chris George |
Leanne Perry
Chief Inspector
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 979
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
G'day,
I wonder if Buller's could have been a workhouse?
LEANNE |
Christopher T George
Inspector
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 454
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 11:20 pm: | |
Hi, Leanne
A workhouse was an official designation given to a local authority and any workhouse would have been clearly known by that term. The dosshouses or common lodging houses though were, I believe I am correct in saying, privately run, and that seems to have been the category in which Buller's establishment fell.
Best regards
Chris |
Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 3:06 am: | |
G'day Chris,
Thomas Schacher has kindly typed the complete list on London's lodging houses at the time, on the current Joseph Barnett board below. 'Buller's' is not on this list, neither is 'New Street' or Bishopsgate Street'. I was wondering if this points to it merely being unregistered?
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 6:08 am: | |
G'day Chris,
Here's a link to that list of London's lodging houses, plus some info on them:
http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/lodging.html
LEANNE |
Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1521
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 8:54 am: | |
G'day,
Reading up on Common Lodging Houses such as 'Buller's' I find that each sleeping compartment was 8ft x 4ft x 6ft; consisted of a bed, chair and a locker (with it's own, unique key) and was enclosed by it's own, locked door.
I really don't think anyone could have proved that Joseph Barnett stayed asleep in one of these compartments from midnight to breakfast.
LEANNE |
