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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Tumblety, Francis » Tumblety in San Francisco 1870 « Previous Next »

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Chris Scott
Inspector
Username: Chris

Post Number: 478
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 8:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am posting below an article from the New York Times of 23 November 1888. This gives details of Tumblety's time in San Francisco in 1870-71. Also note that this article says that the chief of police in San Francisco was in touch with the London authorities on 29 Oct 1888 with a view to providing a specimen of his handwriting. As Tumblety was not arrested until 7 November this suggests he was under close investigation by the London police for some time before they carried out the arrest.
Chris


tumbsanfarn
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3097
Registered: 10-1997
Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I received two press reports in the mail this morning from Joe Chetcuti, both from the San Francisco Daily Examiner. Both articles discuss Tumblety's time in San Francisco and elsewhere in California, and to the best of my knowledge, both contain information not previously published (including Tumblety-family relations in both California and Connecticut, an arrest for obscenity in New York, etc.)

Both articles can be found at:

http://casebook.org/press_reports/daily_examiner/

Thanks for sharing them with us, Joe!
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3103
Registered: 10-1997
Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I'd like to thank Joe Chetcuti for sharing the following new San Francisco area articles which are now on the Casebook. All of them discuss Tumblety's various actions in and around the Bay area in California.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/san_francisco_examiner/
http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/san_francisco_daily_morning_call/
http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/san_francisco_daily_evening_bulletin/
http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/vallejo_chronicle/
Stephen P. Ryder, Exec. Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Dan Norder
Detective Sergeant
Username: Dannorder

Post Number: 118
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 5:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Regarding the first post on this thread, the other news articles say that the police chief contacted London on the "19th inst." Does that mean Nov. 19 instead of Oct. 29? That'd make more sense because the other news stories give the impression that he was arrested, made the papers, then they checked the bank, then found they had writing samples, then telegraphed London. I can't imagine how Oct. 29 would actually work, and that reference seems to only exist in a New York article rehashing California news, so could very easily have gotten the info wrong.

(Message edited by dannorder on May 26, 2004)

Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Malta Joe
Police Constable
Username: Malta

Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes Dan, "19th instant" means the same as Nov 19th in this account. It looks like the news item that told of Crowley contacting Scotland Yard as early as Oct 29th wasn't correct. Yesterday, I went to the location site of the Hibernia Bank that had Tumblety's 1870 handwriting, and there still is a bank there! It's a Wells Fargo though. Bye!
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Malta Joe
Police Constable
Username: Malta

Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I just discovered this news item. 90% of the article was identical to the info that had been reported in other SF newspapers on these postings. I condensed it down to a couple of short paragraphs which shows us the new info:

The San Francisco Daily Report (Page 8)
Friday November 23, 1888

Dr. Tumblety
San Francisco's knowledge of the alleged Whitechapel Fiend.

"Tumblety, while here, occupied an office at 20 Montgomery Street and was noted for his eccentricity and mysterious manners. He kept but little company, dressed in a peculiar fashion, and wandered about the purlieus of the city at all hours of the day and night. His morals were of the most degraded character and his reputation, generally speaking, was that of half crank half scoundrel. His practice was confined to the lower class of the community, but it is believed he made considerable money."

(Later in the article, C. Smythe of the Hibernia Bank in SF tells of his first hand experience with Tumblety in Toronto during 1858.)

"At that time Tumblety bore an unenviable reputation. He practiced medicine for a short time, but his habits did not inspire the confidence of his patients, and he was forced to turn to something else. At one time he would appear half-naked and the next would strut forth decked with medals."
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Finding Tumblety-related photographs is a tough task. But I think I found something this week on the web that's not bad.

Go to carletonwatkins.org and when the screen comes up, look to the left and click the 5th entry entitled "More About Watkins"

Scroll down to about a half dozen photos, and you'll come upon a picture taken in 1871. It's of Carleton Watkins' photography store that took up the addresses of 22 + 24 + 26 Montgomery Street in San Francisco. Inside Watkins' store was the Yosemite Art Gallery, and this place attracted a fine clientele of people. Across the street was a lavish hotel called the Lick House. (James Lick may have been California's wealthiest man back then.)

In the spring + summer of 1870, Tumblety was open for business at 20 Montgomery Street. He often advertised in the newspapers that he was "opposite the Lick House." This photo was taken less than a year after Tumblety was forced out of SF for doctoring without a license. I'm not sure if Tumblety's former office was encompassed in this photo or not, but the block in which he was open for business gets prominently shown.

There isn't much difficulty in getting web photos of the hotel where Tumblety stayed in SF during 1870. The Occidental Hotel was a famous building in this time period. The photos of the great Lick House are available, too. That hotel crumbled during the 1906 earthquake.

Just one last thing about 1870 San Francisco. The oddest person in this city's history was the goofy Emperor Norton "Protector of Mexico." He strutted through the streets of SF during this time period as well. Couldn't you just imagine Norton + Tumblety bumping into each other during an afternoon stroll in the summer of 1870 in SF? A painting of that scene might sell higher than a Rembrandt!
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder

Post Number: 305
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 6:06 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Anyone have a copy of the San Francisco Chronicle for Nov. 23? The press reports section here has a couple of days for that paper, but not the 23rd That's when the handwriting part was discussed in the other papers. I'd be interested to find out what the Chronicle had to say about it.

Also, does anyone know if the Daily Morning Call and the Daily Evening Bulletin were just two editions of the same paper or if they were separate entities?

(Oh, and, Malta, did the Daily Report of Nov. 23 mention the handwriting? If so, did it give a date the offer was sent? And could that possibly be another edition of the same paper?)


(Message edited by dannorder on September 25, 2004)

Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 2:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Dan, I can help you out on this. The Morning Call and Evening Bulletin were two different periodicals. I'll have no problem getting that Chronicle article to you. Hey, I can even give you a brief article about the Crowley-Yard correspondence in a paper I think was called The Daily Alta California.

As for the Daily Report, yes they did mention Crowley in it. What I found interesting was that it was specifically mentioned that the material was photographed and will be sent to the Yard. That means the Hibernia Bank retained the originals. Get this! The Daily Report is only preserved in one archival location. The 19th century Hibernia Banking Records are only preserved in one location as well. They're both in the same place! They're at the Bancroft Library in the UC Berkeley campus. I've set up an appointment with the curator of that library for me to view the Hibernia Records with the longshot hope that the Tumblety-material was preserved.

The library has a container box that has the "depositor receipt books, cash receipt ledgers, and the accounts of several depositors beginning from 1859." So I'm gambling that the Hibernia Bank may have wanted to save the original Tumblety paperwork in which Scotland Yard was interested in. While I'm at the Bancroft Library, I'll copy out the entire Daily Report article for you.

With all these newspaper reports, all of which are practically saying the same thing, it'll probably result in a long tedious posting for most of our readers. So Dan, just contact me at e-mail address: maltajoe940@yahoo.com (That's the number zero.) I'll correspond all the info back to you privately, and I should have it all done by the first week of October.

I screwed up when I sent the Casebook four articles in which I credited two of them to The SF Examiner and the other two to The Daily Examiner of SF. All four articles should be credited to The Daily Examiner of SF. The newspaper didn't change its name to The SF Examiner until many years after 1888. Old Malta Joe messes up again.

Finally, I haven't read anything that supports the NY Times claim that the Yard contacted Crowley in late October. I'm even in disagreement with the assertion that the Yard initiated the contact with Crowley. I believe it was the other way around. I think Crowley contacted the Yard on Nov 19th after he knew of Tumblety's London arrests of Nov 7, 12, 14, and 17. The last one being at the Euston Station. See ya!

Malta Joe
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder

Post Number: 306
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Awesome, yeah, let me email you about this
...

Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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NC
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

Not being a devoted "Tumbletonian" I was surprised by the quote from Dr.C.C. O'Donnell* that the good Dr T. "came from Australia". Is there any evidence of his being in Australia or is this apocryphal.

Regards

Neale

*SF Daily Examiner 20 Nov - link in message 14 May above.
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

NC, just go to the "press reports" section of this casebook and click on the San Francisco Daily Evening Bulletin. That paper's Nov 23, 1888 article has police Chief Crowley clarifying this Australia reference. Speaking of Crowley, there is probably a broader picture to the Crowley-Yard correspondence than was first evident in the SF newspapers. I should ammend my final comment on the previous 9/25 posting.

Even though six SF periodicals were unanimous in reporting that Crowley initiated the contact with Anderson in Nov '88, the NY Times stood alone reporting that the correspondence had commenced in October. If the Times' story was true, then the Yardsmen most likely would have been the initiators of this Oct communication. When I stated that Crowley's Nov 19th communique originated the correspondence, it was solely due to my reliance on six different SF newspapers being accurate in their collective account. Looking at it again, I'd be wiser to wait for more facts to come out before drawing conclusions. It should be pointed out that I've seen nothing in any SF newspaper that was a source of confirmation to the NY Times Nov 23rd article's assertion. Apparently, a recent published work said otherwise.
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I've advanced my schedule, and I've worked it out with the Bancroft Library to conduct my research today! I'm e-mailing from the Berkeley Campus right now. Some extraordinary info has come my way during the visit here, and it has enthused this job even more. I'll maybe have another half day of research here tomorrow before I could report the good findings.

I'm having unexpected success here today in totally unplanned ways. Sometimes things work out that way. The areas which are surfacing now are of Tumblety forgeries, and his 1855 behavior. But just when I start thinking I'm a sharp cookie, I just look out the window. I see I'm amongst 40,000 college kids who are 20 years my junior and yet they already know a hundred times more than I'll ever learn!!
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Dan Norder
Inspector
Username: Dannorder

Post Number: 316
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 4:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey Joe,

Sounds interesting. Please keep us up to date on your findings. And if you think any of it is magazine article-worthy, pop me an email.

(And I wouldn't worry about the college kids. It's a sad fact that most of them will never do original research of the type you are doing except to ape the motions to get by in classes. You're a step up in that regard at least.)

Dan Norder, editor, Ripper Notes
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 28
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 5:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The Berkeley research is now complete, and the findings have been posted. This new Tumblety thread is titled "Alleged Treason During War Time." I hope the material comes to good use for all.
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta

Post Number: 52
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

On a lighter note, the Emperor Norton mentioned on the 9/23 posting made the headlines in the SF Chronicle this morning. The SF Board of Supervisors passed a resolution to name the San Francisco Bay Bridge after this kook. It still has to get approved by the Mayor and the city of Oakland. Apparently, the Emperor had ordered the Bay Bridge to be built in 1872, but his peasants didn't get around to obeying this decree until 1936. Like Tumblety, the Emperor was very fond of taking evening strolls around San Francisco in pompous attire. He would actually drop dead during his last evening stroll in that city during January 1880.

Ironically, not only were both Tumblety + Emperor Norton doing their things in the SF summer of 1870, but it turns out the Emperor lived a short distance from Tumblety's 2nd medical office on Kearny Street. So the idea of the 19th century's two most peculiar characters meeting in the street or in a local pub could actually have occurred on one of those 1870 summer nights. Fortunately, nobody has proposed to name the Golden Gate Bridge after Tumblety yet.
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling

Post Number: 526
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 10:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all,

Joshua Norton of San Francisco is rather unique in American history as the only popular figure who was known by his fans (the citizens of San Francisco) as "Emperor of the United States" and "Protector of Mexico". He had been a wealthy trader and merchant, but when he tried to corner the rice market in 1855 he was ruined by an influx of rice that he had been misinformed about. He suffered more than ruin - he had a nervous breakdown. When he "recovered" he became the self-appointed emperor - fully accepted by his fellow citizens (who accepted his written promissory notes as money for his meals,etc.). Unlike most madmen, Norris actually had something clever to say about civic and political improvements. He issued a proclamation that Abraham Lincoln was in charge of his imperial armies to put down the rebellion in the South. In the end he managed to survive temporary notoriety and become a permanent historical memory.

Jeff

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