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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2758
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 3:38 pm: | 
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From the Brooklyn Daily Eagle, 21 December 1878. I believe this refers to Tumblety, though he is not named - it refers to an Indian Herb Doctor, possibly in Fulton Street. The portion of the article which appears to discuss the Doctor is blocked out, unfortunately.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Stephen P. Ryder
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 2760
Registered: 10-1997
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 4:06 pm: |
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An article from two weeks later (5 Jan 1879) retracts the claim of poisoning, suggesting that Boyle's fall was due to a pulmonary condition.
There is an obituary for a John J. Boyle, aged 34, published 8/9 September 1879 - though whether or not this is the same John Boyle is so far impossible to tell.
Stephen P. Ryder, Editor
Casebook: Jack the Ripper
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 46
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, November 29, 2004 - 4:37 pm: |
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Hi Stephen,
It takes me awhile to get around to doing things!! I decided to look into that Brooklyn poisoning story today, and in a rare stroke of luck, I found another report on this matter rather quickly. Whoever wrote this seemed to be very disdainful of the use of commas! Here it is:
In the case of the unfortunate man Boyle, whose sudden illness on the tower was reported yesterday, a special Providence seems to have protected him until he reached a secure footing. But even here his danger was great for in the convulsions which racked him he might have fallen from the narrow area to the foot of the tower had not his condition been observed. The cause of his malady is not quite ascertained. His medical attendants ascribe the symptoms to a congestive chill caused by exposure, but there seems to be an equal chance that he had been poisoned by a quack medicine. He had been suffering from rheumatism, and with the fatuity of ignorance, had obtained drugs from an "Indian doctor" instead of visiting an authorized physician.
What these drugs were chemical analysis will show, and in case the result should be fatal and the medicine improper the District Attorney will do well to examine the matter. The stupidity of mankind in preferring to deal with quacks instead of competent doctors has made victims enough, but it seems hard that a man should forfeit his life for his folly. The exhibition of an assortment of tapeworms in alcohol is apparently sufficient to convince the thoughtless of a so-called doctor's competency, and to a man whom a patient would trust with a five dollar bill,(and) he unhesitatingly commits his life. However, there seems to be no cure for this evil, but universal enlightenment. When we find millionaires implicitly obeying the mandates of clairvoyants and spiritual mediums we can hardly feign astonishment at the credulity of workingmen with limited intelligence surrendering their lives to the custody of charlatans. Tennyson says, "Knowledge comes, but wisdom 'lingers', and ages hence when all the scientific dreams of today have been realized and more daring enterprises than the mind of man now conceives have been set afoot, there will still, we doubt not, be quacks and victims of quacks. |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 11:46 am: |
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Hi Stephen and Joe
Yes this might be Tumblety but it might not. There were a number of men in the nineteenth century who claimed to be "Indian Herb doctors" and Dr. T was not the only one. Until we have proof positive that it was actually Tumblety who was being referred to, I would hold this as problematical that it was another odd episode involving Dr. Francis Tumblety. It may well have been but we don't know that yet.
All the best
Chris
(Message edited by chrisg on November 30, 2004)
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
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Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 47
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 30, 2004 - 3:19 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
That's a good point, and I agree with you. That's why I didn't mention Tumblety's name on this matter just yet. It should be highlighted though that in the article which Stephen found, the remark "Fulton s" appeared just before the paper blanked out. This makes one think that Fulton street is being mentioned, and Tumblety's office was on Fulton street in Brooklyn. Still, we don't have quite enough info on this to positively declare that this was a Tumblety matter.
Pardon me for changing the topic here! Tumblety was thrown out of a Cincinnati cathedral in the spring of 1866 for being a show-off. I contacted the Cinci Historical Society and they said this place was St. Peter's Cathedral on the corner of 8th Street + Plum. I asked if this parish is still active, and they said yes. It was a practice in those days to register with your local parish, so I'm taking the chance at finding out if Tumblety happened to sign in with this parish's registry book. The church is usually pretty good when it comes to keeping records. The odds are against me finding his signature here because Tumblety was a very itinerate person, but I know he did hang around Cinci through the spring of 1866 to write + publish his first autobiography. So I'll take a crack at this.
It's tough to find this bum's handwriting! I've tried old hotel registration books and everything, but still it's been no dice. The only signature I've come across was of his weak autograph which he doodled on his will just before he died. I once sent a photocopy of that signature to a handwriting analyzer, and she thought it was produced by a left-hander writer. She mentioned that she would like to see more samples though. If I get lucky in Cinci, I'll be sure to post it on a different thread! Have a great week everyone.
Joe |
R.J. Palmer
Inspector
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 492
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 05, 2004 - 10:52 pm: |
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Joe--There's substantial samples of Tumblety's handwriting at the Manx Museum on the Isle of Man. Copies of this handwriting can be seen in Evans & Skinner's Letters from Hell. The fellow above wasn't Tumblety, by the way, but a different doctor. Tumblety was in England through-out 1878. Cheers, RP
P.S. Sorry for the lack of tact here, but I see some resemblance between Tumblety's handwriting and the very obscene 'Ripper' letter from the bloke who mentions buggering the Queen. It's interesting to note that Scotland Yard wanted a sample of Dr.T's handwriting. Paul Begg argues in his new book that Tumblety was illiterate, but I demur. McGarry stated specifically that Tumblety 'read to him', and I have an account of Tumblety writing someone a prescription.
(Message edited by rjpalmer on December 05, 2004) |
Malta Joe
Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 50
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 06, 2004 - 5:22 pm: |
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I can always count on RJ to get me pointed back in the right direction! Thank you, sir!! The Manx Museum info is quite helpful. I rarely watched the old Tennessee Tuxedo cartoons, but my older brother keeps calling me as Chumley and he refers to you as Mr. Whoopie!! I think he is saying that I'm usually lost, and you're the man to go to for sage advice.
I knew Tumblety hopped aboard the steamer Montana in April 1878 to head for Europe. I didn't know if he had returned to 181 Fulton St. Brooklyn by Dec 1878 or not to possibly poison Boyle. But I'll take your word for it that it was some other doctor.
The only reference I heard of Tumblety being illiterate came from the attorney William P. Burr. I always found that hard to digest. I suppose it's possible though that Tumblety could have feigned illiteracy around that college kid Lyons so he'd have the excuse for hiring the boy. (Burr was legally associated with the Lyons family.) It's funny how Tumblety trusted that Lyons kid with power of attorney over such a vast amount of wealth. Tumblety had previously trusted the teachings of his Rochester mentor, H J Lyons. Tumblety even emulated Lyons' Indian Herb Doctor profession. I could see him linking the name "Lyons" with "trust" for Tumblety was a very superstitious person.
You've got me interested in that Ripper letter about the Queen now. Talk to you later!
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Malta Joe
Detective Sergeant
Username: Malta
Post Number: 70
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:21 am: |
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I took Roger's advice and I got a look at the Manx Museum handwriting. I sent a sample of that along with Tumblety's St. Louis will signature to somebody who knows quite a bit about handwriting. The results are now in. It was easily concluded that both samples were written by a left-hander.
That "Letters From Hell" book also had a terrific picture in it from the Illustrated Police news. It was a drawing of the man who George Hutchinson described as being seen with Kelly at 2am. |
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