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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Cohen, David » David Cohen/Nathan Kaminsky/Aaron Kosminski » Archive through May 23, 2003 « Previous Next »

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John R. Fogarty
Police Constable
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 6:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin Fido, in my 'umble opinion, has done the most intensive, scholarly research to date, re the Cohen/Kaminsky/Kosminski angle. His theory (see the dissertations board) is that an incredibly violent Polish Jew named Nathan Kaminsky was detained by police as a "lunatic wandering at large" shortly after the Mary Kelly murder and given the name Aaron Davis Cohen in court, then sent to Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary for observation under the name David Cohen.

Fido's research led him to the conclusion that Cohen perfectly fits Anderson's "low class Polish Jew" suspect and Macnaughton's Kosminksy, and was very possibly Jack the Ripper.

Cohen was the only Whitechapel Jew admitted to Colney Hatch whose incarceration so closely dovetails with the end of the canonical murders. Furthermore, he was far more violent than Aaron Kosminski, who wasn't admitted to the hatch until 1891 -- fully two-and-one-half years after the canonical killings.

Fido also argues that Cohen's real name was changed from Nathan Kaminsky to "David Cohen" when he was committed to the parish workhouse (and, later, Colney Hatch asylum) due to registrars who couldn't be bothered to get the correct spelling of his real name (Kaminsky), the name "Cohen" being a sort of universal Jewish version of "John Doe." Fido corroborates his claim by citing the case of a modern-day Cohen he'd interviewed, who said that her family's name had been bestowed upon them in similar fashion but had originally been something quite different.

Thus, Kaminsky becomes Cohen becomes Kosminski, in part because police officers at the time confused the two K names, even though Kaminsky/Cohen -- THE most violent Jewish pauper admitted to Colney Hatch between 1888 and 1890 -- entered the loony bin in December, 1888, less than a month after the slaughter of Mary Kelly in Miller's Court.

Thus, it would appear that Cohen/Kaminsky is by far the most compelling Jewish pauper suspect to date and jibes very closely with Anderson's, Macnaughten's and Swanson's pet theories.

Some might find this acrobatic name-changing a "bridge too far," as Fido himself admits, but the evidence he uncovered is persuasive. Many Jewish paupers of the day were no doubt entered into various hospitals, workhouses, etc., under the catch-all surname of "Cohen," not so much due to anti-Semitism as much as simple overcrowding. Traffic in and out of these institutions must have been enormous, and harried bureaucrats probably took such clerical shortcuts every day.

My question is this: is anyone else becoming more attracted to Fido's theory, and is anyone doing further research into this most intriguing area? Although I've stated on numerous occasions that I feel JTR probably was NOT Jewish (owing to his strenuous attempts to implicate Jews in the crimes), I'm starting to lean more toward Fido's theory (rather poorly described above; please see the dissertations board or Fido's chapter "David Cohen and the Polish Jew Theory" in The Mammoth Book of Jack the Ripper).

One final note: Cohen is the only violent Jewish pauper admitted to Colney Hatch between 1888 and 1890 who DIED shortly thereafter, as Swanson claimed in his marginalia. (See also "Nathan Kaminsky: The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper").

Replies eagerly sought.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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R.J. Palmer
Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer

Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John--I would certainly agree that Martin Fido's theory is one of the few serious and scholarly attempts to solve the question of Jack the Ripper's identity. I like his book, but I fall short of being convinced. The problems I have with accepting the solution:

1) The link between Kaminsky and Cohen is all-important, but seems very thin. Are these really the same men?

Kaminsky was released as 'cured' in early May, 1888. Is he really likely to be found raving and wandering seven months later? Kaminsky was treated for syphilis; if we interpret his 'cured' condition as indicative of remission, then it's unlikely that he would have the raving mania associated with tertiary syphilis a few months later, as the disease does not advance at such a rate.

Further, while it is true that David Cohen might be an alias-- we don't know that for certain. Cohen is a common name, and there were Cohens connected with Whitechapel. One of the similarities between the two men that Fido cites---"Relatives Unknown"--seems to be merely a stock response on the officials reports. There doesn't seem to be much else to connect the two men unless we accept the K-something-ski premise...[which brings me to the next point]

2) Both Swanson & Macngathen name the supsect Kosminski by name. If there wasn't a real Kosminski found in the asylum records, I could readily accept the K-something-ski suggestion. But, unfortunately, we do have Aaron Kosminski to deal with. [It was Fido himself who found Kosminski in the Colney Hatch records, for which he deserves great credit]. Ultimately, it's hard for me not to accept Paul Begg's opinion that Kosminski was the suspect--not just because of the name, but also because he seems to fit better with certain details in the Swanson memo.

Just my two cents...

By the way, I was once somewhat berated on the old boards for bring up the name of Pizer in connection with the Kaminsky-Cohen theory. This wasn't an accident. The shadow of Leather Apron is felt in Fido's theory. The interesting suggestion is that perhaps Kaminsky could be the real Leather Apron. This idea hasn't captured much attention, but to me is one of the more interesting parts of Martin Fido's theory. Kaminsky's occupation [boot maker] fits perfectly, and, as Martin points out, Kaminsky's syphilis probably suggests a familiarity with East End prostitution. One could go a long way in strengthening the theory if Kaminsky's name can be found connected with an assault in 1886 or 1887, as "Leather Apron" is said to have served a seven day sentence for such a crime.

Best wishes, RJP

P.S. Here's a link to a site describing a walking tour of Jewish Whitechapel that you might find of interest:

http://www.ibiblio.org/yiddish/Places/London/london.htm
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RJ:

You're absolutely right about Leather Apron looming large in this theory. In fact, Fido suggests Kaminsky may well have been Leather Apron, and that the early complaints about this character by local prostitutes were never properly investigated. (Once Pizer was released, the whole Leather Apron angle was dismissed, perhaps prematurely).

Like you, I am a bit leery about accepting the Kaminsky = Cohen = Kosminski connection. As a novelist, such a plot device would be far too convoluted for my tastes. Then again, truth is often stranger than fiction.

If someone could only find some of Dr. Anderson's private papers, in which he may well have divulged his suspect's identity, it would go a long way toward clearing this up. True, both Macnaghton and Swanson boldly name the Polish Jew as Kosminski, but I can't believe he was JTR. Cohen sounds much more like the ticket. But his provenance is simply too mysterious. A leap of faith is required.

Still, I am intrigued by this line of inquiry, and am most impressed by Fido's researches to date.

Thanks for the link!

All best,
jf


Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 14
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RJ:

"In a spot check a Whitechapel Sanitary inspector found in a house in Goulston Street - just off Whitechapel Street - 20 people living in a small house. In a back room inhabited by an immigrant named Cohen, his wife and two children..."

From the link you sent. Would love to know the address of the Cohen Family on Goulston, and whether they had any sons named Aaron or David...

Ciao for now,

jf
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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Christopher T George
Detective Sergeant
Username: Chrisg

Post Number: 91
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 10:39 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi, all:

While Martin Fido might be right that the Polish Jew was Nathan Kaminsky whose name was entered in the asylum records as "David Cohen" and that the police officers later confused the name and thought it was Kosminski, this all strikes me as a type of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. How many times in genealogical research do we find two people with the same name who aren't in fact the same person? Thus Martin's theory seems a bit too convenient if not actually far fetched, a case of wishful thinking that quite possibly does not fit the facts though he ingeniously strives to make it do so. The one part that I would agree wholeheartedly with is the poor quality of the police notations that we are left with, i.e., Druitt as a doctor, a no-first-name Kosminski, and so on, which does leave open the possibility, just barely, that Martin might have it exactly right.

Best regards

Chris George
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 11:44 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

CTG:

Many thanks for your reply. Yes, it all does seem a bit thick, but...again...it is at least possible. And tantalizing.

What fascinates me most is Kaminsky's abrupt disappearance from all official records, and "Cohen's" inexplicable address as reported by the Leman St. Police. A Protestant boy's home?! With a young night watchman named Cohen? Quite a coincidence. Then, too, there were probably scores of Cohens in Whitechapel at the time.

Anyhow, great hearing from you, and thanks for contributing to the discussion.

All best,

jf
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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Robert Charles Linford
Sergeant
Username: Robert

Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 3:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hallo everybody

It would be nice if Martin Fido's suspect turned out to be Leather Apron. But Anderson says that the witness only dug in his heels when he learned the suspect was Jewish, i.e. he'd had, by that time, two "good looks" at the suspect and the suspect didn't look Jewish to him.

Even allowing for the anti-semitic press exaggerations, can we believe that Leather Apron(assuming he ever existed) didn't look Jewish?

Robert
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R.J. Palmer
Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer

Post Number: 30
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 11:19 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert--Interesting. Point taken.

Question: I just re-read Scott Hannaford's dissertation on Anderson's suspect. Does Anderson's fear of a libel suit in 1910 [Blackwood's article] suggest that his suspect was still alive? Intriguing, but unfortunately it is impossible to tell whether or not Anderson was only referring to the journalist [Bulling] suing him..
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John R. Fogarty
Sergeant
Username: Goryboy

Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 2:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

RJ:

I'd neglected to respond to your point 2) above:
"2) Both Swanson & Macngathen name the supsect Kosminski by name. If there wasn't a real Kosminski found in the asylum records, I could readily accept the K-something-ski suggestion. But, unfortunately, we do have Aaron Kosminski to deal with. [It was Fido himself who found Kosminski in the Colney Hatch records, for which he deserves great credit]. Ultimately, it's hard for me not to accept Paul Begg's opinion that Kosminski was the suspect--not just because of the name, but also because he seems to fit better with certain details in the Swanson memo."

Yes, indeed, Kosminski has to be considered as possibly being Anderson's suspect. However, the confusion between Kosminski and Kaminsky/Cohen can be explained by Fido, who argues that -- once Cohen died in the asylum (Oct., 1889), and Kosminski toddles along roughly two years later, police on the lookout for crazed Jewish paupers might have recalled a K-something-sky in the woodpile at one time and assumed it must have been Kosminski (forgetting all about the late and unlamented Cohen's real surname of Kaminsky). Someone let slip the name Kosminski and, in 1894, Macnaghten simply jotted it down as their Polish Jewish suspect. Following this line of reasoning, then, Swanson simply compounded the error in his marginalia, also naming their man as Kosminski -- but clouding the waters thoroughly by insisting their man DIED in the hatch shortly after comittal, which Kosminski most assuredly did not do. Kaminsky/Cohen, as stated above, did.

I think it only too plausible that such a scenario may well have occurred over the years (1888 - 1894). Not to disparage the Met, but they were under outrageous pressure by the press and public, and no doubt forgot about Cohen, since they had the questionable Mylett slaying in Dec., 1888; the McKenzie (copycat) slaying in July, 1889; and the Coles murder of Feb., 1891. Kosminski goes into the hatch shortly thereafter, he's Jewish, the Met probably snuck Lawende in for an indentification of the poor wretch and he refused to identify him -- because he was not the Ripper (and not merely because he was a "fellow Jew.")

Thus, the forgotten Cohen/Kaminsky, two years in his grave, may well have taken his terrible secret with him, while the City Police, the Met and Scotland Yard were all scurrying around Seaside Homes and loony Hatches at cross purposes, chasing each other's witnesses around and holding at least 2 suspect identifications -- even up through Feb., 1891 and the failed identification of Sadler as the Ripper. (Can you imagine how confused poor Lawende [or Schwartz] must have been by this time?)

QUESTION: Would it be possible to obtain handwriting samples of Kaminsky, Cohen or Kosminski? Would tracing their families be of any avail? In this light, I would personally rule out Kosminski period. Too passive, too whacked-out, wretched and miserable at the time (Autumn, 1888) to have been JTR. Why else would Macnaghten and Swanson name such a poor candidate as Anderson's suspect, unless he was in fact confused with some earlier K-something-sky? Surely no one here really believes that the monster who made such a bloody butcher's shambles at 13 Miller's Court could simply wander the streets for the next 2.5 years, content to eat bread from the gutters and mumble to non-existent friends? Without committing any further violence of any kind in all that time???

I think not.

No, in my opinion (for what it's worth), Kosminski is a non-starter. A dead end. I think we need to look more closely at violent Jewish tailors or cobblers (shades of Leather Apron) taken off the streets between Dec., 1888 and Feb., 1889. And if their names are anything like K-something-sky, and they were violent, I'd say we've got a most viable suspect.


Robert -- Like you, I believe Anderson was alluding to the "enterprising journalist" suing him for libel, not some insane, dead or incarcerated Jewish pauper.
Cheers,
John e-Rotten
(a.k.a., Goryboy)
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Chris Scott
Sergeant
Username: Chris

Post Number: 25
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

John
You mentioned about Cohen households living in Goulston Street, Hope this is of interest.

1881 Census

Cohen Households in Goulston Street

No 2
Abraham Cohen (Head) aged 30 born in Poland Glazier
Mary (wife) aged 25 born in Poland
Betsy (daughter) aged 9 born in Poland

No 25
Joseph Cohen (Head) aged 49 born in Poland Shoe Maker
Hannah (wife) aged 39 born in Poland
Lewis (son) aged 9 born in Spitalfields
Israel (son) aged 6 born in Spitalfields

No 75
Joseph Cohen (Head) aged 70 born in Germany General Dealer
Julia (wife) aged 53 born in Germany General Dealer
Jonas (son) aged 25 born in Germany Boot Riveter
Isaac (son) aged 21 born in Whitechapel Boot Riveter
Israel (son) aged 19 born in Whitechapel Boot Riveter
Amelia (daughter) aged 17 born in Whitechapel Tailoress
Ylaig (son) aged 15 born in Whitechapel Tailor
Sarah (daughter) aged 13 born in Whitechapel Riveter

No 36
Samuel Cohen (Head) aged 29 born in Poland Bootmaker
Rosa (mother) aged 58 born in Poland
Lewis (brother) aged 22 born in Poland Bootmaker


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Saddam
Unregistered guest
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 2:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

In articles published in respected journals, Mr. Scott Nelson has promulgated historical information concerning the family of Morris or Maurice Lubnowski at one time of Greenfield Street changing its name to Cohen-Lubnowski after the completion of the murder investigation. Mr. Lubnowski married Matilda Kosminski, an older sister of Aaron Kosminski. Serious inquiries only: What are the views of the assembled cognoscenti?

Saddam Radka
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Robert Charles Linford
Sergeant
Username: Robert

Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 6:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi all

Chris, thanks for putting that up. Am I right in thinking that Poland was a pretty nebulous concept at that time, so people giving Poland as their birthplace could have as their first language either German, Polish or Russian?

Robert
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Chris Scott
Sergeant
Username: Chris

Post Number: 38
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I thought this press account might be of interest. Although the suspect is not named, and the asylum in question is not Colney Hatch, I can't match the details with any suspect closer than Kosminski/Cohen


Marion Daily Star
Ohio, USA
10 March 1894

"JACK THE RIPPER" FOUND
He Is in the British Lunatic Asylum at Dartmoor

London, March 10.
The fact has developed, although so far it has been kept a profound secret, that the authorities have got on the track of "Jack the Ripper". The information leaks out from Scotland Yard, and has been guardedly confirmed by a leading officer of the metropolitan police.

The atrocious criminal, it is said, is an inmate of the government lunatic asylum at Dartmoor, in which he was incarcerated within a few weeks after the last Whitechapel horror, the authorities having no knowledge of his antecedents at the time of his committal as an insne pauper with homicidal tendencies.

The Scotland Yard authorities have possession of the knife which is of Chinese make with which the Whitechapel murders were committed. They were also familiar with the Ripper's movements during the intervals between the murders, and have been able to trace him to the asylum after the last crime.

Although pronounced incurably insane by the asylum physicians, the man has a clear recollection of the past, and all his conversations and remarks have reference to his crimes in the East End. Correspondence has passed between the government criminal department and the asylum authorities relative to the murderer's condition and as to whether now, or at any time in the near future, he is or will be likely to be sufficiently rational to be placed on trial. The result of these inquiries has not yet been disclosed.

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Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 82
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:59 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I found this article about a David Cohen from "The Times". Whether it is the David Cohen or of any relevance I will leave up to you, but his address is interesting.

The Times
Wednesday 12 September 1888

At Worship-Street, David Cohen, of Plummers-Row, Whitechapel, appeared to a summons charging him with pirating a certain drawing called "A Hebrew New Year's paper," of which Bernard Dresdner was the registered proprietor, contrary to Section 6 of 25 and 26 Vict., cap. 68. Mr R. Phillips prosecuted. The Complainant Dresdner, a publisher of Hebrew Works, in Commercial Street, proved that on the 6th of October, 1886, he registered as an original work a drawing for a leaflet called "A Hebrew New Year's paper." A fac-simile was put in, and the certificate of registration at Stationers'-hall produced. The complainent said that at the present time--approaching the Jewish New Year--he had discovered that pirated copies of his paper were being sold, and he issued cautions, one of which was left with the defendent. He found the defendent was selling copies, and he caused one to be purchased from him. The defendent, through an interpreter, said that the drawing claimed by the complainent was copied from others, principally German prints, and from old prayer books, and he called Phillip Valentine, a publisher of Hebrew works, of Houndsditch and other places, who pointed out various parts of the drawing, such as Moses with the tables, and the "Priestly hands," as being copies of German works. Mr Bushby said that that would be no answer or interfere with the registration. The question was the compilation of the picture as a whole. Mr Valentine said he was well aquainted with such pictures and thought that the one in question was copied from a Jewish Festival Prayer-book. There might be small matters of difference, but the drawing was substantially the same. Mr. Phillips called a lad who said he was apprenticed to a draughtsman in Little Britain, City, and that the defendent had brought the drawing identified by the complainent as one of those registered by him, and ordered it to be copied, and the witness had copied it. Mr. Bushby adjourned the case for further hearing.


Plummers Row is next to and runs parallel with Mulberry Street where John Pizer lived, at the top of which, Sion Square and where Aaron Kosminski lived. The top of Plummers Row is Whitechapel Road and exactly opposite is Black Lion Yard where Nathan Kaminsky lived.

Rob
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Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert

Post Number: 160
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 4:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Rob

Thanks for posting that very interesting item. Also, a D. Cohen of 27 Church Lane signed the Whitechapel Traders' petition included in the Sourebook.

Robert
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Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 85
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 5:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert

I posted on another thread about the amount of people in the Whitechapel area having the same name, Timothy Donovan, John Kelly, Joseph Barnett possibly two David Cohens. The two Joe Barnetts were separated by about 2 years in age and probably only about 20 minutes walk apart. No wonder people have problems tracking down the right persons.

Rob
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Robert Charles Linford
Inspector
Username: Robert

Post Number: 162
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 5:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Rob

Yes, on the poetry thread I toyed briefly with the idea of doing "The Twelve Days of Christmas" and having "two Joseph Barnetts" etc but I couldn't make it work.

Robert
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Robert Clack
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rclack

Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 6:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi Robert

You've still got seven months to make it work.

Rob
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R.J. Palmer
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer

Post Number: 61
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Martin Fido very reasonably argues that David Cohen's known address of 86 Leman Street--a Protestant Boy's Club--is a probably a transciption error for 84 Leman Street-- The Temporary Shelter for Poor Homeless Jews.

Mark that: homeless.

From time to time we see efforts attempting to reconcile Cohen with the Kosminskis &tc. But if Cohen had relatives in Whitechapel, why would he be flopped in a homeless shelter? Wouldn't the man who allegedly was protected by 'his people' be living with them?

For some curious reason---perhaps it's a defect in my own reasoning, or perhaps some native paranoia---the 'Polish Jew' theory makes me nervous. We have 'Kosminski' named by name. And Aaron Kosminski fits the known facts. What is the motive for kicking him off his stool? Why must he be usurped? The Andersonians don't seem to want their own suspect.
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Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100

Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But wasn't the sequence of events that Fido discovered Cohen and Kaminsky first, and only afterwards - shortly before his book was due to be published - found the evidence that there really was a lunatic called Kosminsky?

An awful situation to be in, after so much research, but it seems to me that the complicated Cohen/Kaminsky/Kosminsky theory was really an attempt to reconcile the Cohen/Kaminsky theory with the evidence about Kosminsky that showed it to be mistaken.

Chris Phillips

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R.J. Palmer
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer

Post Number: 63
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes, I completely agree. Martin's research efforts were nobel and his solution understandable. What I guess I don't understand is why there is still an impulse to link Cohen with the Kosminskis. RP
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Saddam
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Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 1:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

"Martin's research efforts were nobel..."

Has Mr. Fido been awarded the Nobel prize for his work on the case? Or were his research efforts only noble?

SHTD
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R.J. Palmer
Detective Sergeant
Username: Rjpalmer

Post Number: 64
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Or was it a typo?

But Saddam, in regards to your post of 11 April, 2:53. Why should anyone even begin to link the anonymous lunatic David Cohen with the Kosminskis? Or are your future contributions limited to spell-check?
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Neil K. MacMillan
Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith

Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert; In those days, what is now Poland was split into areas belonging to Russia, Germany and the Austro-Hungarian empire. Our suspect could have spoken Polish, Russian or German or a combinatioon of any or all of them. Also if Jewish he would have spoken Hebrew and Yiddish.
I've read Martin's theory and it is intriguing. Can't committ to it without further research. Some points to consider:
Immigration authorities and police authorities may have arbitraily assigned "Kominski" the moniker of "Cohen" for a couple of reasons. He may have told them that was his name, they may have given him the archtypical Jewish name because they were lazy (And yes that happened all to frequently in this country The United States with immigration.) Someone else may have misidentified him.
Of our Cohen suspects: ABraham, a glazier, Joseph, a shoe maker, and Samuel a boot maker would fit as leather apron. In addition Joseph's sons Isaac and Isreal could also fit as they were both boot riveters and Samuel Cohens brother Lewis could also fit as he was a boot maker. The last three don't meet the age criteria for JAck the Ripper from the account but then the accounts may well be wrong. Food for thought and I look forward to hearing form you on it. Thanks, Neil
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Chris Phillips
Detective Sergeant
Username: Cgp100

Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 2:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

But if I understand correctly, it was never Fido's contention that Kosminsky was Cohen - indeed, it's clear that he wasn't, as the asylum records make clear.

I think the theory went that Cohen was Kaminsky, and that even though the authorities apparently didn't know Cohen's real name, they were supposed to have confused him with Kosminsky for some reason.

I can believe that Macnaghten mixed up Kosminsky with other suspects - it seems to me that he mixed in some details relating to "Leather Apron" in his memoranda. The trouble is that there's really no evidence to suggest anyone suspected Cohen, and in some respects he definitely doesn't fit Anderson's description of his suspect (unnamed by him, but named as Kosminsky by Swanson).

Chris Phillips

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