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Message |
    
Neil K. MacMillan
Police Constable
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 5:09 pm: | 
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I know I mentioned Pizer in the suspect section but he appears to have been rather rapidly dismissed as a suspect by the police and I find no mention of him in the suspects section of the message boards or the case book. I have a few questions about Pizer (Including spelling of his last name). I would like to use him in my novel.
First was he foriegn born? I seem to recall mention made possibly on the old boards that he was Swiss. Was he ever arrested for mususing and extorting prostitutes? And finally do we have a basic deascription of the man? Are there articles extant about Pizer? Thanks again and if I am in the wrong area, I apologize Kindest regards, Neil |
Chris Scott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 8:48 am: |
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Hi Neil
I believe the usual spelling is Pizer but I have also seen him mentioned as Piser and very probably Pozer on the press reports of 1887 when he was charged with a stabbing.
According to the A-Z he was of Polish Jewish extraction but probably born in the UK. Having said that, his family at 22 Mulberry Street is listed in the 1881 census (but he is not included) and they are all listed as born in Germany. Those listed in 1881 are August Pizer (widowed head of household)aged 61, and her children Jeanette aged 27, Gabriel (son) aged 25 and Barnett (son) aged 21. As for charges against him, there is the Pozer incident of 1887 for which he got six months hard labour. He was charged with indecent assault on August 4 1888 but the case was dismissed.
Hope this helps
Chris S |
N R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 6:41 am: |
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John Pizer was my great great great uncle, according to my grandfather he was a Polish Jew and his name was spelt Pizer. |
Neil K. MacMillan
Detective Sergeant
Username: Wordsmith
Post Number: 129
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
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Any discription on John Pizer and N.R. any familial input? Neil |
Jane Coram
Inspector
Username: Jcoram
Post Number: 353
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 18, 2005 - 10:27 pm: |
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Hi Neill,
I seem to be following you around the board. Here is what I know of Pizer's appearance....
He was a short man, heavily built with a dark beard and moustache having a foreign accent.......he had a distinctly Jewish appearance. The press portrayed him as having a 'cruel sardonic look'.
Apart from the leather apron, he wore rubber soled boots which meant that he could creep about silently. One can imagine that this must have disturbed the locals at the best of times, but with a killer on the loose, one can see why he put the fear of God into people!!!!!
Hope this helps.
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Henry
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, April 11, 2005 - 1:52 pm: |
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That joke about leather aprons gave me real fits. I wasnt codding iether old boss , I ll give you the tip. Youll hear from me. Sor, catch me if you can Mr Lusk. |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1967
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 6:03 pm: |
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I have found the Pizer family listing for 1871 census. The address is 22 Mulberry Street and again John is not included. The list is as follows:
Head: Israel Pizer aged 58 born Poland - ? Traveller
Wife: Augusta Pizer aged 50 born Poland
Children:
Samuel G Pizer aged 10 born Stepney
Mother in law: Leah Cohen aged 76 born Poland
The occupation of Israel Pizer is not easy to read - it looks like "Town Traveller" - if so, I am not sure what this is (see below)
(Message edited by Chris on April 30, 2005) |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 6:13 pm: |
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In 1861 the family were listed living at 32 Gower's Walk, Goodmans Fields, Whitechapel. Ths list reads:
Head: Israel Pizer aged 48 born Poland - General dealer
Wife: Gusta (sic) Pizer aged 9 born Poland
Son:
Samuel Pizer aged 7 months born Whitechapel
Mother in Law: Leah Cohen aged 65 born Poland
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David O'Flaherty
Chief Inspector
Username: Oberlin
Post Number: 847
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 6:16 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
Town traveller=commercial traveller, salesman? Makes sense in connection with his being a general dealer in 1861, though it's just a suggestion.
Cheers,
Dave
(Message edited by oberlin on April 30, 2005) |
Jason
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 08, 2005 - 1:10 pm: |
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It seems to me that on the surface, this Pizer is the quintessential Ripper suspect. He has Jewish links, matches some witness reports, has a crimainal record , and moves about the place silently on foot for his work.He is a rough looking man who could fit the mould of a murderer.
I am not quite sure why there seems to be so little interest in him as a suspect in this case. The police questioned him, as with Barnett and Kosminski, and had nothing to hold him on.
I read a vague account once stating that on one night he had an alibi, as he was involved in helping firefighters put out a warehouse fire.
Has anyone herd this story before, and does this really preclude him from being a genuine Ripper suspect.As I have said, I think he does not get enough credit considering his profile.
Cheers - Jason Smith |
Monty
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Monty
Post Number: 1772
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 10:55 am: |
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Jason,
Check this out.
../4920/16222.html"../../clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>
Of course this land is dangerous!
All of the animals are capably murderous.
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2114
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 4:49 pm: |
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This file of miscellaneous bits about Pizer may be of interest:
Pizer family census entries:
1861:
32 Gower's Walk, Goodmans Fields, Whitechapel
Head: Israel Pizer aged 48 born Poland - General dealer
Wife: Gusta (sic) Pizer aged 9 born Poland
Son:
Samuel Pizer aged 7 months born Whitechapel
Mother in Law: Leah Cohen aged 65 born Poland
1871:
22 Mulberry Street, Mile End
Head: Israel Pizer aged 58 born Poland - Town Traveller
Wife: Augusta Pizer aged 50 born Poland
Children:
Samuel G Pizer aged 10 born Stepney
Mother in law: Leah Cohen aged 76 born Poland
1881:
22 Mulberry Street, Mile End
Head: August Pizer (Widow) aged 61 born Germany
Children:
Jeanette aged 27
Gabriel (Male) aged 25
Barnett aged 21
All listed as born in Germany
Lodgers:
Jacob Joseph aged 30 born Joseph
Isaac Leechman aged 21born Germany
Occupation for all residents listed as "None"
1901:
10 Sutton Street, St George in the East
Head: Samuel Pizer aged 40 born Whitechapel - Cabinet maker
Children:
Leah aged 17 born Stepney
Israel aged 16 born Stepney - Clerk at boot factory
Bernard aged 15 born Stepney
Florence age 12 born Stepney
Mother: Augusta Pizer aged 43 born Germany
Augusta's death was registered as follows:
Name: Pizer, Augusta Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 88 Quarter: September Year: 1903 District: St George in the East County: London Surrey Volume: 1c Page: 215
The record below may refer to Pizer himself:
Name: Pizer, John Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 47 Quarter: September Year: 1897 District: Whitechapel County: London Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 205
If this age at death is correct, then he would have been born circa 1850. The only record I have so far found of a John Pizer born in this area is a full 10 years out. This reads as follows:
Name: PIZER, John Record Type: Births Quarter: June Year: 1860 District: Whitechapel County: London Middlesex Volume: 1c Page: 312
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 5:54 pm: |
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Chris
If I remember correctly, you found an interesting newspaper item about one Julius Lipman having been the "Leather Apron" suspect.
Did you ever manage to clarify his relationship (or lack of it) with Pizer?
Chris Phillips
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2115
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 6:23 pm: |
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Hi Chris P
The Lippman story was interesting but posed many problems
1) There was certainly no provable connection with Pizer
2) the mention of Lippman being known as Leather Apron was reported so long after the event (1900, the year of his death)
3) I have been able to find no connection between Lippman and London, let alone east London. He was mostly connected with the Birmingham area
Apart from that one article (1900 - News of the World) I have never found any other linking of Lippman with the nickname Leather Apron.
For any who may not have seen it, here is the short article, the only mention I have ever seen of this alleged suspect:
JULIUS LIPPMAN 1861 - 1900
Sources:
News of the World, October 21 1900
A JACK THE RIPPER SUSPECT DEAD
The death has just occurred in the East-End of London of Julius Lipman, nicknamed "Leather Apron", a cobbler, who in 1889 fell under suspicion of being "Jack the Ripper." He satisfied the police of his innocence, but the stigma never left him. His business gradually disappeared, and he went to another neighbourhood, where he took to drink. He died of neglect and semi-starvation.
His places of residence are given as County Durham and his place of birth is variously reported as Birmingham, Germany and Russia
(Message edited by Chris on July 16, 2005) |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:51 am: |
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Chris
Thanks for that information.
I wonder if you ever managed to track down a death registration for a Julius Lip(p)man, either in the East End of London or elsewhere, preceding the News of the World report. Is it possible the county Durham Lippman is a different man?
Chris Phillips
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 597
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 11:49 am: |
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There is a Barney Lipman. Definitely not the same person as he was alive in June 1901, he may or may not be related to Julius.
This is from 'The East London Advertiser' Saturday 8th June 1901:
Barney Lipman, of 17, Dorset Street. Said he was the manager.[8 White's Row]
The Coroner: Anything to do with 35, Dorset Street? - Witness: I am general manager for the lot.
He is listed as Barney Lepman in the 1891 census, so one of them is wrong. I couldn't find him in the 1901 census or 17 Dorset Street for that matter. He would also have been employed by William Crossingham.
Rob |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4691
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 3:33 pm: |
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Rob, I looked in some directories and found Lippmans in Hanbury St and Mitre St - but not, alas, a Julius.
Robert |
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2116
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 3:44 pm: |
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Here is the Lippman section from the cast of Thousands book which might be useful:
Julius Lippman
Before the ghastly nom de plume "Jack the Ripper" first appeared and became current, the killer of the East End was known in the press by various names - the Whitechapel Fiend, the Whitechapel murderer, the Monster and, most bizarrely of all, Leather Apron. The creature known as Leather Apron was a repulsive mixture of an anti Semitic caricature, a pantomime villain and a demon in human form.
He was repellent in appearance, trod noiselessly, threatened violence to women and always wore the signature garment that gave him his name. The leather apron was a very practical and hardwearing protective garment and must have been worn by those who followed a number of trades in Whitechapel at the time. However this article of clothing was most closely associated with those trades, which were concerned with the making and repairing of shoes.
The figure of Leather Apron as described in the press was certainly a mythical character, concocted from a potent mix of semi hysteria and the desire for notoriety. It was definitely a story, which grew in the telling. Leather Apron, or some figure very much like him, may have been current in the area as a sort of local bogeyman and been drummed into service as a custom made focus for fears and frissons about the killings. The one real person most closely identified with Leather Apron is John Pizer (q.v.) who denied he was known by the name but was taken into custody and, when it became apparent that he no connection with the killings, was allowed to appear in the inquest proceedings to give an account of himself to clear his name.
However, an account was found recently which gives the name of another man who was allegedly known as Leather Apron. This information was contained in an article in The News of the World dated 21st October 1900:
A JACK THE RIPPER SUSPECT DEAD
The death has just occurred in the East-End of London of Julius Lipman, nicknamed "Leather Apron", a cobbler, who in 1889 fell under suspicion of being "Jack the Ripper." He satisfied the police of his innocence, but the stigma never left him. His business gradually disappeared, and he went to another neighbourhood, where he took to drink. He died of neglect and semi-starvation.
That is the only information that extensive searches of newspaper archives have so far revealed.
His name was actually spelt Julius Lippman and he was born in 1861. Therefore at the time of the Whitechapel he would have been 27 years old and 39 years old at the time of his death. Lippman was born in Birmingham (or Germany) and first appears in the 1881 census:
Dwelling: 3 Richmond Street, Newcastle on Tyne All Saints, Northumberland
JULIUS LIPPMAN
Born 1861 in Birmingham, Warwickshire.
Slipper maker
Unmarried
Head of household: Mark Kinsler aged 49 born Poland - Slipper manufacturer
Wife:
Rebecca Kinsler aged 56 born Poland
Children:
Ezekiel aged 23 - Slipper maker
Abraham aged 17 - Slipper maker
Celia aged 15
Raphael aged 25
All children listed as born in Birmingham
Lippman's marriage was registered in March 1887 when he married Esther Berkson in Sunderland.
In the 1891 census Lippman was living in Sunderland and his birthplace is given as Germany:
Address: 11 High Street, Sunderland, Durham
Head:
Julius Lippman aged 29 born Germany (British subject) - Slipper maker
Wife:
Esther Lippman aged 27 born Russia (British subject)
Children:
Marcus aged 3 born Durham
Jacob aged 1 born Newcastle
Other:
Annie Bergson (Servant) aged 11 born Russia (British subject)
Nicholas Waite aged 19 (Boarder) born Durham - Labourer
And that is all the data has to offer about Lippman. There is no evidence whatever of any connection with London, let alone the East End. So how he came to die of neglect in 1900 in the East End, and why no surviving other press account so far seen makes any reference to him, remain currently unknown.
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2117
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:06 pm: |
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Lippman's death as reported is puzzling. The account says that as of October 1900 his death had just occurred. However searches for the first three quarters of 1900 death records show no such event. |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:07 pm: |
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Chris
Thank you for posting the extract, but I'm now more confused than ever.
Back in September 2003 you posted an entry from the 1901 census that is obviously the same Julius, Esther, Marcus and Jacob. In that case, this slipper maker can't be the Julius Lipman who died in the East End in 1900.
Isn't it possible that the East-End Julius is another one entirely, who hasn't yet been located in the 1891 census (and perhaps wasn't in England in 1881)?
The death registration (if there is one) would give us a clue, but FreeBMD seems to be having all kinds of problems, and while no death appears, I can't tell how complete the coverage for 1900 is.
Chris Phillips
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Chris
We posted nearly simulataneously.
Could the death have been swiftly registered early in the fourth quarter?
Otherwise, it's not possible the press report has been misdated, is it?
Chris Phillips
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2118
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:26 pm: |
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Hi Chris
The only Lipman death listed in Quarter 4 of 1900 is a Barnett Lipman aged 33 who died in Mile End.
I have checked the original page from the News of the World including the date banner and it is definitely October 21st 1900. Here is the original article below:
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1192
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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Chris
Thanks. It's odd, isn't it?
I assume "neglect and semi-starvation" would qualify him for a coroner's inquest (at least I'd hope so!). Maybe a small research project for someone with access to Colindale?
Chris Phillips
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2119
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:03 pm: |
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This Barnett Lipman seems a more likely candidate in view of his presence in the East End and the time of his death than the Sunderland slipper maker who lived on after 1900!. This is what I have been able to find out about him:
Barnett Lipman
Death registered in last quarter of 1900 in Mile End
Born 1868
1871 Census:
2 George Court, Aldgate
Head: John Lipman aged 35 born St Botolph - General dealer
Wife: Rose Lipman aged 31 born St Botolph
Children:
Mark aged 12 - Cigar maker
Catharine aged 8
Lewis aged 7
Mary aged 67
Esther aged 4
Barnett aged 3
Morris aged 1
All children listed as born at St Botolph's except Esther, born at Whitechapel
1881:
No trace yet found
1891:
45 Princes Block, St Botolph, Aldgate
Head: Barnett Lipman aged 23 born London - Cigar Maker
Wife: Rosey Lipman aged 22 born London City
Children:
Fanny aged 5 born London City
Rachael aged 4 born Spitalfields
Angilo (Male) aged 2 born London City
1901 (just after Barnett's death)
22 Dunstan House, Mile End Old Town
Head: Rose Lipman aged 32 born London City - Widow
Children:
Fanny aged 15 - Cap packer
Rachel aged 13
Angle (Male) aged 13
Harry aged 8
Mikey aged 6
Hyam aged 4
Hannah aged 2
All children born in London City except Hannah, born in Stepney
Marriage:
The marriage of Barnett Lipman and Rosey Da Costa was registered in Quarter 2 of 1885 at Mile End
Lipman's wife to be is listed in 1881 as follows:
14 New Street, Aldgate
Head: Racel Da Costa (Widow) aged 36 born Aldgate - Seamstress
Children:
Hyman aged 15 born Whitechapel - Printer's apprentice
Hannah aged 13 born Whitechapel
Rose aged 12 born St George E
Esther aged 9 born Aldgate
Emmanuel aged 4 born Aldgate
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Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2120
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:13 pm: |
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The main objection to identifying this Barnett Lipman with the Julius mentioned in the 1900 account is his trade. He is listed as a cigar maker, a trade which ran in his family, and not a boot maker.
Whether Barnett died in semi starvation and neglect cannot be known from the available evidence. But the fact that he died at the age of 33 might make the death certificate worth a look to see what is given as cause of death.
The full reference for the death entry is:
Lipman, Barnett
Aged 33
Mile End Volume 1c Page 279
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 599
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
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'The East London Observer' for 23rd October 1900 ran the exact same story as 'The News of the World' but minus the word "just", and I would take the year mentioned in the article as a typo.
Rob |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 5:41 pm: |
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Rob
Thanks for that.
It had struck me that even 1889 in the other article doesn't quite fit the "Leather Apron" hysteria.
Chris Phillips
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Robert Clack
Chief Inspector
Username: Rclack
Post Number: 600
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 6:06 pm: |
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Hi Chris,
It sounds like a general 'news agency'story, but it does makes you wonder who reported his death to the 'press'as somebody knew him and his history.
Rob |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 4696
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 4:17 am: |
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A few years into the next century there was a Judah Lipnowski who Anglicised his name to Julius Lipman.
Our man might conceivably be in the records somewhere, though goodness knows under what name.
Robert |
