|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
Richard Brian Nunweek
Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 8:06 am: | 
|
Hi Everyone,
I am not suggesting that this actor is a suspect for these murders, however the production Jekyll and Hyde may well have been the reason why these murders started.
Correct me If I am wrong but I believe the production was at the Lyceum Theatre when the murders began, so could not a member of the audience become so excited by the horror of the event that he acted it the script in Whitechapel
Mansfield I believe was so convincing in the part that the audience were horrified.
Chris Scott, who I am sure members of the old boards are familiar with was a absolute genius at research and we owe him a great deal, just before the messages were wiped noted that Mansfield boarded in london in 1881, and one of the two lodgers that were with him in the dwelling was a clerk in holy orders.
Now this is a long shot .. Mayby.
Out of all the so called Ripper correspondence, there was a letter sent one year exactly after the Dear Boss letter, claiming the occupation of the murderer was a clerk in holy orders, and if you also take the statement by Marshall in Berner Streetof ; You would say anything but your prayers; it is not entirely impossible that the culprit was a member of the cloth.
Just suppose that this was the same person that lodged with Mansfield some seven years earlier, and on hearing his fellow lodger was on the london stage , saw the show , and the impression it left on him [ mayby already derranged] caused him to run amock.
Imagination again .
Mayby Chris [ who has posted one post as a unregistered guest will give his thoughts on this ]
Regards RICHARD. |
Alexander Chisholm
Police Constable
Username: Alex
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 11:35 am: |
|
Hi Richard
I’m not sure if a link with the letter’s ‘clerk in holy orders’ could be substantiated, but notions that the murderer may have been influenced by Mansfield’s play were certainly current in 1888.
The murder scene, at the end of Act 1 in Mansfield’s Jekyll & Hyde, was described by the experienced and respected theatre critic, Clement Scott in the Daily Telegraph, 6 August 1888, as “the most powerful and horrible thing ever seen on the modern stage.”
That such a description could be applied to an act of throttling in the half-lit green gloom of a stage speaks volumes for the nature of the times, I think. In pre-Jack 1888, however, it appears that this was sufficient to cause ladies to faint, and “make any audience shudder and go home terrified in the dark watches of the night.” (There had been suggestions in America that the fainting ladies were paid members of the performance.)
Nevertheless, once Whitechapel murders came to prominence, analogies with Jekyll & Hyde were frequently drawn, and Mansfield’s Lyceum performances were looked to as a possible cause.
Among other similar theories, on 3 October 1888, the Daily Telegraph’s “Letters from the Public” included:
“‘G. C.’ has a fancy ‘that the perpetrator is a being whose diseased brain has been inflamed by witnessing the performance of the drama of 'Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde' - which I understand is now wisely withdrawn from the stage. If there is anything in this, let the detectives consider how Mr. Hyde would have acted - for there may be a system in the demonic actions of a madman in following the pattern set before him.’"
Hope this will be of some use to you.
Best Wishes
alex
|
R.J. Palmer
Police Constable
Username: Rjpalmer
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 2:07 pm: |
|
Alex--Many thanks for that. Another example from the other side of the water. Philadelphia Times, November 25, 1888.
"Miss Braddon, the novelist, thinks that a perusal of Louis Stevenson's book, "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde," has shown to an already murderously inclined semi-lunatic how he can commit those awful deeds with comparative security from detection."
Miss Braddon being, of course, the popular British novelist Mary Elizabeth Braddon. An odd statement, as I don't recall Stevenson's work being a 'how to' guide. Cheers, RP |
Alexander Chisholm
Police Constable
Username: Alex
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 9:28 pm: |
|
Hi R. J.
I have to agree. Unless some would-be bludgeoner was devoid of ideas there seems little obvious reason to regard Jekyll & Hyde as a ‘how to’ guide to murder.
My own favoured explanation would be that Hyde’s undefined deeds, left to the imagination in novella and play, came to be imagined in terms of the real excess of Whitechapel murder. This, allied to the belief that the murderer may have masked his murderous inclinations behind a respectable facade, enabled some to see Jekyll & Hyde as a possible blueprint for Jack the Ripper.
Best wishes
alex
|
Chris Scott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 5:43 pm: |
|
Hi Richard
Many thanks for the kind comments and I hope to be back as a registered poster soon:-)
The letter you are referring to is dated 27 September 1889 and reads as follows:
"The next one will be in a turning out of Commercial Road, close to Gardner's shop.
Now I shall you what I am. Clerk in holy orders - few years ago at St Pancras Church. Good morning. Amen.
Refr. J Ripper"
I have already started to look into St Pancras Church to see if any record of incumbents would be available. All I have found so far is there are two churches that would fit the bill - St Pancras and St Pancras Old Church.
I'll let you know if I find anything interesting
All the best
Chris
|
Chris Scott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 6:05 pm: |
|
Richard re. your Jekyll and Hyde theory - I came across the following in the Atlanta Constitution (Georgia) of October 20 1889:
"STEVENSON - The theory is advanced that Robert Louis Stevenson's novel, "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde", started the Jack the Ripper series of murders."
Just shows there is nothing new under the sun:-)
regards
chris
|
Richard Brian Nunweek
Sergeant
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2003 - 4:13 am: |
|
Hi Chris.
What would be fascinating would be for you to turn up some records of names, at one of the two said churches.
Even more so if one of those names would be the lodger who resided with Mansfield in 1881, that would just about wrap up the case...
And Bob Hintons research on Mary Jane Davies, if more research proved intresting, we could also wrap that mystery up..
If only it would be that easy, but one never knows.
Regards Richard. |
Chris Scott
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, March 03, 2003 - 8:39 am: |
|
Hi Richard
For those who didnt see the entry on the old message baords, in 1881 Mansfield was a boarder at 107 Great Russell Street, London.
The head of household was one Frank Cobbett and mansfield's fellow boarders were:
Alfred Scott, aged 31, born Peckham Clerk in Holy Orders
Albert Back aged 23, born Cambridge Law Student
Mansfield himself is decribed under Profession as Actor(Law Student), as born in Massachusets and 27 at the time of the census
I'll let you know anything I find out
Regards
Chris
|
Mark Starr
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, February 14, 2004 - 3:03 pm: |
|
Perhaps a more productive line of research behind the London production of Robert Louis Stevenson's "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" might be to discover whether there was a nexus between actor Richard Mansfield and Walter Sickert. Before Sickert became a painter, throughout the decade of the 1880s, Sickert pursued a spotty career as an actor. He played minor roles in the company of the great Shakespearian actor and director Sir Henry Irving. He also played in numerous cheap productions of popular fare in London's East End. Sickert undoubtedly had high ambitions as an actor. After he failed to make a go of an acting career, he looked back on it with both pride and regret -- as can be seen in Sickert's oil painting "The Juvenile Lead," painted in 1908, two decades after the Whitechapel Murders and two years after The Camden Town Murders. In this sombre self-portrait, Sickert's bitter face is mostly obscured by dark shadows and extremely rough textures. The questions to research are:
Did Sickert ever attend a performance of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde? (Circumstances alone would indicate that very likely he did.)
Did Sickert ever meet actor Richard Mansfield? (Again, highly likely that he did, at least casually in the world of the London theatre.)
Are there any possible references to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in any paintings, drawings or sketches by Walter Sickert? (I have not seen any.)
Sickert is known to have had "Ripper periods" when he dressed up as Jack for weeks at a time. He is also known to have dressed up as other historical figures, such as Napoleon. Did Sickert every have a "Jekyll & Hyde Period"?
How about a new conspiracy theory in which the Whitechapel murders were committed by both Richard Mansfield, acting as Dr. Jekyll, and Walter Sickert, acting as Mr. Hyde? Or perhaps, they would switch roles for each murder -- like Laurence Olivier and Michael Caine when they both played in the 2-man play "Sleuth" on Broadway.
Regards,
Mark Starr
|
AP Wolf
Chief Inspector
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 850
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 4:23 am: |
|
I thought the following private correspondence might be of interest to this thread:
‘Bram Stoker. Firstly, Bram Stoker wasn't even his real name. It
was Abraham. This is clearly an indication of a throwback in the
family to the Middle East and debateable heritage. Secondly, he was
born Irish. Thirdly he was the product of a mixed
marriage – Anglo-Irish.
While Stoker was partly educated at home, mostly listening to
gruesome stores told by his mother he did manage to
graduate from Trinity College with honours in science where he no
doubt honed his skills dissecting small animals and studying the
latest in knifeology.
While living in Dublin he met actor Henry Irving in 1876 and
established a "close" friendship. Biographical notes do not
elaborate on how "close" the friendship was but nudge, nudge, wink,
wink, we can read between the lines. Stoker became Irving's manager
on the road for both American tours and for London's famed Lyceum.
Again, biographical notes refer to a 25 year "parasitical
relationship" between the two men. To keep up appearances he married
in 1878 and almost immediately moved to London but his wife resented
fiercely the time Stoker spent with Irving. Not a typical scene of
domestic bliss.
While living in London, Stoker was researching material for his
story "Dracula" which could be autobiographical as his other stories
were not memorable. The writing of this book was fueled by the
Victorians' increasing appetite for, blood lust, subjugation of
women, ritualistic killings and blatent sexuality. The book is a
sexual lexicon of Victoria taboos including seduction, rape, gang
rape, group sex, necrophilia, pedophilia, incest, adultery, oral sex,
menstruation, venereal disease and voyeurism. Even the character of
Dracula sounds like Jack the Ripper supposedly appearing and
disappearing without being noticed while leaving victims, albeit
bloodless, in his wake.
I think Stoker fits the bill to be the Ripper. He lived in London
for the period in question and I suspect he hated women. There is a
rumor that he contracted syphilis from a prostitute so he may have
doubly hated the women of White Chapel. He was educated, knew
science and would have learned how to use a knife. He had a deviant
lifestyle. In addition, he had a night job as a reporter on a
newspaper – this would have given him credibility to be out late at
night in places where other people might not ordinarily go.
Killers like this do not suddenly appear overnight, kill a few times
and then disappear. Killers of this magnitude are pathological
killers who start with the small stuff such as killing or maiming
animals just for the thrill. There may have been many other victims
over the years but poor policework, lack of communication between
districts, counties or countries may have made investigative work
very difficult. Perhaps Stoker was started off young with the
horrific stories told to him by his mother and later fueled by a
homosexual lifestyle, which in Victorian times, meant that anything
goes and the White Chapel murders were a vicious and bloody
culmination of his fantasies.
The only question that remains unanswered for me is why the killings
stopped. Was it to be the bloody pinnacle, was it intended to be a
venture into fantasy with real-life research for his book or did some
over event force him undercover. "Dracula" was written in 1890 and
published in 1897. Stoker's long time companion died in 1905 and
Stoker himself died in 1912.
Well, this is my theory. My apologies to the Stoker family and all
those other writers whose work I ripped off the internet in a
frenzy of plagiarism. It was fun though. It kept me amused for a
couple of hours.
Addendum: In the course of my research I discovered that P.C.'s
great, great grandfather's name was Stoker. I figure that slagging
off poor Mr. Sickert as the Ripper was her way to avoid the world
discovering that the true Ripper was right there in her own family.
For shame, Ms. C. I am setting the record straight.
DISCLAIMER: This is a work of pure fiction intended solely to amuse
the writer.
PS: If the Stoker family wants to sue me, please direct all
enquiries to my lawyers who made me do this.’
|
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 1270
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 7:09 am: |
|
regarding the end of the Jekyll and Hyde run at the Lyceum, the A-z states "Despite offering a special benefit performance for the Suffragan Bishop of London's fund to open a laundry for the employment of reformed prostitutes, Mansfield suffered failing audiences and had to curtail his run."
The play is heavily advertised in the Times but the only mention I can find of a benefit performance is for a different fund from the one mentioned above. The notice was posted in The Times and was not a performance of Jekyll and Hydem but of Prince Karl, the other play that Mansfield was presenting at the time in London.
The notice of the benefit performance was published on 15 October 1888 and reads as follows:
Lyceum Theatre: Special Notice
Benefit Performance, under the most distinguished patronage, Friday evening next, October 19: Mr. Richard Mansfield has the honour to announce a Benefit Performance in aid of the Bishop of Bedford's Home and Refuge Fund for the Poor of the East End of London. On this occasion will be performed Prince Karl, a comedy in four acts, by Archibald C. Gunter (author of Mr. Barnes of New York and Mr. Potter of Texas) in which Mr. Richard Mansfield will appear in his original character of Prince Karl, commencing at 8.45, preceded by a farce. Seats can now be secured for which early application is respectfully solicited at the box office, open 10 till 5."
The last actual performance of Jekyll and Hyde listed in the Times advertising took place on the evening of October 20th of that year.
Chris |
Alex Chisholm
Detective Sergeant
Username: Alex
Post Number: 110
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 5:28 pm: |
|
Hi Chris
In the autumn of 1888 the Bishop of Bedford was Bishop Suffragan for East London. On Oct. 9th various newspapers carried his view that, rather than another refuge, what east end women needed was a home “where washing and other work could be done, and where poor women who are really anxious to lead a better life could find employment.” (Star 9 Oct.)
Despite being advised against it by Bram Stoker, Mansfield decided to introduce the comedy “Prince Karl” with a benefit performance (19 Oct. 1888) and chose the Bishop’s fund as the beneficiary.
“Jekyll & Hyde,” while gaining the actor high praise, failed to sustain large audiences. The unpleasant replacement “A Parisian Romance,” introduced on 1 Oct. 1888, attracted little critical acclaim, leading to the reintroduction of “Jekyll & Hyde” on 10 Oct., until the much lighter “Prince Karl” could be prepared.
The following details of Mansfield’s J&H doings have appeared on the message boards before, but I thought it might be worth reposting them
Mansfield’s performances of “Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde” opened at the Lyceum on August 4 1888.
An attack of Mansfield’s rheumatism led to the cancellation of the afternoon and evening performances of “Jekyll & Hyde” on Saturday 15 September.
Monday 17 September, Richard Davey’s one-act classical comedy, “Lesbia,” introduced to precede “Jekyll and Hyde.”
Wednesday 19 September, perhaps acting on advice offered in the Daily Telegraph’s review of “Lesbia,” 18 Sept., the last 12 performances of “Jekyll and Hyde,” preceded by “Lesbia” billed, with the resultant final performance scheduled for Saturday 29 September.
On Thursday, 20 September, Mansfield and his Lyceum company gave a matinee performance of “Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde” at the Crystal Palace Theatre.
On 1 October Mansfield starred in “A Parisian Romance,” preceded by “Lesbia,” which continued until Tuesday 9 October, with additional performances on 11 and Saturday matinee on 13 October.
Due to ‘popular demand’ “Jekyll & Hyde,” preceded by “Lesbia” was again staged on the evenings of 10, 12 and 13, as well as from 15 to 18 October.
The benefit performance of “Prince Karl,” preceded by “Always Intended,” took place on 19 October.
One more Lyceum performance of “Jekyll & Hyde,” now preceded by “Always Intended,” was staged on the evening of 20 October.
“Prince Karl,” preceded by “Always Intended,” became the regular bill from Monday 22 October.
Mansfield’s Lyceum season closed on Saturday 1 December.
Monday 3 December – Saturday 8 December, Mansfield & Co. presented “Prince Karl” and “Jekyll and Hyde” at the Alexandra Theatre, Liverpool.
Monday 10 December Mansfield presented an afternoon performance of “Prince Karl” and an evening performance of “Jekyll and Hyde” at the Grand Theatre, Derby, for the benefit of his old school’s subscription for a new racquet court.
Monday 22 December, Mansfield opened at the Globe Theatre, London, in “Prince Karl,” preceded by “Editha’s Burglar,” with Lionel Brough, and also Weedon Grossmith.
Best Wishes
alex |
Tuffty
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 16, 2005 - 1:42 pm: |
|
reguarding whether or not the Dr Jeklly and mr Hyde play could have planted some idea into the killers mind, in my opinion, can be neither dismissed nor acknowledged.
im not sure if you remember, but when the silence of the lambs came out, in america it sporned a copy-cat murder, which, because of the mutilations, they blamed on the film to some extent.
these people are mentally ill... anything can set them off, this man could have been so dillusional the idea excited him, and he wished to live it.
on the other hand, it could be utter nonsense.
i'm afraid, in this instence, we really will never know.
bit creepy if it was his favorite story though, eh? |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
