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Richard Kimber
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 10:50 am: |       |
I am interested to hear whether there has been cross-referencing of the suspects based on the fact that the killer was left handed.
If memory serves correct the opinion given by the police investigators and the police surgeons who examined the bodies was that the angle of the cuts and incisions indicated the crimes were by a left handed person.
Has there been a comparison of this finding with the long list of suspects. e.g. Druitt was well documented as a sportsman.Surely there is record of whether this prowess was as a left hander/or right hander. As for Walter Sickert, there must be record of whether he painted with his left or righthand.
Also, the popular theory is that this was a serial killer, driven by a possible hatred of women or fallen women or perhaps by an excitement or thrill of killing. I have not researched the modus operandi of serial killers but understood that as each killing takes place the killer becomes more bold and takes more risks.
Looking at a map of the East End and where the 1st Murder took place when compared to the later murders it is interesting to note that the first murder was in close proximity to the Jewish Cemetary in the East End. I have always wondered whether that had any significance when one considers the message scrawled on the wall after the later murder. If it was the case that the first murder took place close to the killer's home ie near the Jewish Cemetary and enabling him to find refuge quickly, was this cemetary, perhaps a common sight to the killer each day somehow a trigger for the content of the later message.
Again, I enquire whether there is any evidence connecting any of the home addresses of the suspects as being in the vicinity of the Jewish Cemetary.
These are just thoughts.
Richard |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 1:24 pm: | |
Richard,
There was considerable controversy - and still is - about whether the Ripper was left-handed or right-handed. However, I think the general consensus now is that he was right-handed.
In Tabram's case, Dr. Killeen felt that while one of the wounds might have been inflicted by a left-handed person, all the rest appeared right-handed.
Doctor Llewellyn originally thought after the Nichol's murder that the killer was left-handed, but later in a report Chief Insp. Swanson said that Llewellyn was 'now doubtful'.
The murderer appeared to be right-handed in the Eddowes case as well, based on how the incisions drag to the right and how the body was laid open, based on Dr. Brown's report.
For the serial killer theory, many do tend to exhibit "escalation" in their murders, but many also stick strictly with their established MO and signature. Depends on the killer.
I personally think that the locations of the victims are not critically important, as they were probably chosen by the victims themselves, not by the killer.
But as for the Jewish cemetary question, that is an interesting hypothesis. However, there is still debate over whether or not Nichol's murder WAS the first murder. If it wasn't, and Tabram's was, then that lessens the utility of your theory as George Yard is considerably further west along Whitechapel Road. There's also debate on whether the Goulston Street graffito was legit or not too. (I, being in the minority, think it was).
I am unsure of the answer to your enquiry about the location of the suspects home addresses, but off the top of my head I know Druitt didn't, and I don't believe that Kosminsky, Ostrog or any of the others did either.
B |
Chris Phillips
Police Constable
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 2:32 pm: | |
My impression of the consensus was the same as Brian's - that the Ripper was right-handed.
Regarding the handedness of suspects, Farson in 1972, believing the killer may have been left-handed or ambidextrous, did write thus about Druitt:
Writing of the third police suspect in Mysteries of Police and Crime, the suicide in the Thames that was plainly Druitt, Major Griffith commented: 'It would be interesting to note whether in this third case the man was left-handed or ambidextrous, both suggestions having been advanced by medical experts after viewing the victims.' Though the evidence relating to this was staring me in the face, I wrote to James Sabben-Clare, the Curator of Wiccamica at Winchester College who has been very helpful throughout; he sent me this reply: 'MJD's sporting career should give us a clue as to his use of his hands. Now he was a very good player at Fives, as I told you, and actually won the school singles title ... to be that good [the game is played with bare hands, rather than a bat] he must at least have had a lot of strength in both arms and wrists.' Sabben-Clare adds that there is some, though not conclusive, evidence that Druitt bowled left-handed.
If nothing else, this tells us that Griffiths' informant - possibly Macnaghten - still believed that the killer was left-handed or an ambidexter. |
7up
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 9:40 am: | |
Richard,
Professor James Cameron, a specialist in Forensic Medecine, recently deduced from Medical sketches and photographs that Kate Eddowes murderer had been right had handed...'as the incision drags to the right, as would happen, and is deeper as more viscera is exposed'. This is also the opinion of Dr Brown who conducted the post motrum on Kate, shown in his findings presented to the inquest. He told that 'the abdomen was laid open upwards by a man kneeling at the prostrate victim's right side. For it would have been difficult, if not impossible for anyone left handed to work from such a position.' |
Brian W. Schoeneman
Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 1:36 pm: | |
7up,
Cameron's study was partly where I got the info in my post - Sugden quoted him. 
B |
Gary Weatherhead
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 12:04 pm: | |
I thought you might be intersted in the input of an ambidexer; I undersntand we are rare and make up less than 1% of the population. It is a right handed world and I think we tend to favor the right hand over the left just as a simple matter of convenience and force of habit.
If I were given two knives I would cut with both hands. If I were given one knife I would cut with the right hand because of the afore-
mentioned.
Perhaps the most important point is the very small proportion of ambidextrous people.I would be surprised if JTR were ambidextrous.
Having said that, I am left wondering about Martha Tabrum; even though there is great debate
over whether she was a true Ripper victim.
BEST REGARDS
GARY |
Monty
Police Constable
Username: Monty
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Friday, March 14, 2003 - 11:50 am: | |
Gary,
Im glad Im not alone !!
I wouldnt have thought about which hand to use.
The position I was in would effect my choice, (space, angle ect..if that makes sense).
Also depends what Im doing. My right is far stronger than the left (I guess its for the same reasons you give above) but when it comes to lighter tasks such as writing ect it matters not.
The ghastly task of ripping open a body I would suspect takes some power, so I guess even the ambi's would take the right hand option.
The % increases.
Monty
 |
Daniel R
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 6:55 am: | |
I noticed this whilst reading through the suspects report on the casebook file on 'Jill the Ripper' .
Stewart disregarded Elizabeth Stride as a victim, claiming the press jumped hastily to that conclusion due to the murder of Eddowes on the same night. He cites the fact that her throat was cut from left to right, whereas the other victims' throats were slashed from right to left. Following his lead, this leaves four victims and four strikingly interesting dates:
31 August, Friday. Polly Nichols.
8 September, Saturday. Annie Chapman.
30 September, Sunday. Catharine Eddowes.
9 Novemeber, Friday. Mary Kelly.
Though others such as Rumbelow clearly believe Stride to be a victim of JtR (see casebook.org interviews http://casebook.org/authors/interviews/int-dr.html)This seems to be an interesting coincidence.
To prove JtR right or left handed would be a strong addition to a so far weak set of known facts.
Though some may argue the killer to be ambidextrous why would only one of four killings be left handed? |
amy
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 9:52 am: | |
this is very confusing.  i know about the dates, and the martha tabram murder fits the link aswell.  how can this murderer cause so many confusions?
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Brian W. Schoeneman
Detective Sergeant
Username: Deltaxi65
Post Number: 149
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 9:48 pm: | |
Amy,
A number of reasons. First, the poor state of forensic science back then made facts difficult to find.
Second, we don't know exactly how many women he killed, because we don't know if there were any copycats.
Third, the press mucked things up because they were trying to sell papers, not provide facts to the people, so many of our "primary sources" are bogus.
Fourth, the Metropolitan Police and the City Police weren't designed for solving murders, nor were they very good at it - particularly murders that appear to be sexually motivated or (if you don't believe they were) didn't have a traditional motive, i.e. money, jealousy, etc.
Fifth, there was so much publicity about the case that the "crazies" came out of the woodwork, misidentifiying victims, sending fake letters, making false threats, etc.
Throw in 115 years, and you've got yourself a stone-cold whodunit.
B
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Scott Medine
Detective Sergeant
Username: Sem
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 8:33 am: | |
Just because the killer killed with his right hand does not mean that he is right handed nor vice-versa. The angle from which the killer attacked the throat of the victim depends on which hand he would use, it is a matter of efficiency.
A common misbelief in edge weapon assaults is that the height of the killer and the his preference of hand can be determined by the wounds on the body. This is not always true. It usually points to the position of the killer in relation to the victim and tells us which hand the perpetrator used to weild the knife.
Peace,
Scott
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Matt
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, July 18, 2003 - 11:00 pm: | |
I thought that the Scotland Yard documents stated that the Ripper was left-handed. |
James Eric Carter
Police Constable
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 2:43 pm: | |
I agree with Scott, with a bladed weapon you would use the hand that is in the best position in relation of the victim's body and the cut you are tring to make.
With that said the idea of handedness with a knife or other bladed weapon is conjecture at best, not only because of the above but too a knife is not as precise as a gun or bow, you can use your off hand and still make a good cut.
There is also the question of when the cuts were made (in the case of the throat cuts).
Like with the identity of the killer there are too many "ifs" about which hand was used and at the end of the day does it really matter? If we could say left or right for certin will that give us the ID of the Ripper? Better to look at the evidence that we have and find the Ripper first, then see if we can find which hand he used, for myself I would have used both for the reasons stated above and to cause questions just like this to keep them from the real question of who I am.
Eric |
Petra Zaagman
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, September 15, 2003 - 11:34 am: | |
Hey people....
me again!
I just want to say, Jack might have been one of those people who can use both of their hands..
anyways, I am.
I write with my left hand, but throwing a ball I do it with both the hands. I use to put something down with my right, holding things with both the hands, computering with my right, cutting with my right too.... lot of my classmates can't find out whether I'm left- or right handed..
(the smiley doesn't have anything to do with the text I just wanted to use it..) |
Busy Beaver
Police Constable
Username: Busy
Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 19, 2004 - 3:41 pm: | |
The letters supposidly written by Jack, could an experienced graphologist recognise whether they were written by a right handed or left handed person? I used to go out with a bloke who was left handed and his writing showed that he was indeed left handed by the way that his writing sloped on the page.
Busy Beaver |
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 17
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 2:22 pm: | |
Again, its conjecture. Lets say I was Jack I'm right handed, I would write with my right hand. Now because of the way my attacks happened and the speed that I was working in most of the time I had to use my left hand for the throat cuts, and because those cuts are the one most offen sited for the left/right hand issuse I become left-handed in the opinion of the doctor examing the body of my victim. The reporters pick up on that and the papers say I'm left-handed, so I become left-handed. Everyone and their dogs start looking for someone left-handed and because there is such a low percentage of left-handed people I hide in plain site because I am really right-handed. Was this done on purpose? In a word no I think it rose out of need for speed in the cut and like so many other points in the case people got caught up in it and took the focus off the big picture of Jacks ID and capture.
Eric |
Michael Raney
Inspector
Username: Mikey559
Post Number: 384
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 3:23 pm: | |
Eric,
I have to agree with you. I think it matters not whether Jack was right or left handed. He could have used either hand to do whatever was necessary to get the job done. I seriously doubt whether the case would ever be solved based on the handedness of the killer.
Mikey |
Busy Beaver
Police Constable
Username: Busy
Post Number: 6
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 4:36 pm: | |
Well so much for my theory to be used as a process of elimination. Looks like it's back to square one! I am going agree with Michael that Jack would have used whatever hand he could to do the job. |
Leanne Perry
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Leanne
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 21, 2004 - 9:21 pm: | |
G'day Busy Beaver,
Who's to say which, if any, of the letters were written by the actual killer? Police and the press recieved hundreds, (if not thousands), of letters signed Jack the Ripper. That's one thing that someone overlooked when she wrote her book!
Each author tried to fool the police and I think the one who sent the half kidney fooled them the most!
LEANNE |
Busy Beaver
Police Constable
Username: Busy
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 11:56 am: | |
Hi Leeanne, I guess that's where we're stumped! I was thinking Letter-right hand or left hand- possible killer from suspects list. If only it was that easy and if it was we'd probably know who Jack was!!
Busy Beaver |
Chris Phillips
Inspector
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 309
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 22, 2004 - 12:51 pm: | |
On the other hand, Sugden concludes fairly firmly that the killer was right-handed, and certainly there are known handwriting samples for a number of the suspects (such as Druitt). If handedness could be deduced from handwriting, perhaps this would tend to eliminate some of them.
Chris Phillips
|
James Eric Carter
Sergeant
Username: Archangel261973
Post Number: 18
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 - 9:35 pm: | |
To eliminate anyone you have to have a definate writing sample from Jack. Any or all of the letters and postcard have been said to be true and then fakes, so you would be hard pressed to find Jack based on the writings. You might prove that one or more of the missives are like the suspects but it would still not be conclusive.
Eric |
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