|
 |
 |
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
    
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:13 am: | 
|
Hi Howard,
The father may not have lost the lot as you suggest. He could have transferred it to his wife, sons or others for legal reasons. I guess that his wife's will would be more interesting, and I shall continue to search for that.
From the details I have given above you could obtain a full copy of the will from the York Porbate Registry for £5. www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226htm#firstavenue
Rgds
John |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1020
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:19 am: |
|
It's also bearing in mind that this £178. 14s 6d. was personal estate only, and therefore wouldn't have included real estate, where the bulk of many people's wealth would lie.
Chris Phillips
|
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 451
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:37 pm: |
|
John:
I'm going to do that right away. Again,I can't thank you enough for the effort. All of this is going very smoothly due to help like you have provided.
Chris P.
Yessir,thats possible. RDS' father may have tied up all his wealth and liquid assets in land and other ways,because 178 pounds ain't gonna last long with a family that size,by that time.
I'm going to go where John said to go and then check out Mama Stephenson's will if possible...
Thanks guys ! The hunt goes on...
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 395
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 4:22 pm: |
|
Hi Chris Phillips,
Going back to an earlier post of yours regarding Charles Street.
I have just had a browse through "The True Face of JTR" by Melvyn Harris. He states that Donstons birth certificate shows him to have been born in Charles Street, in a large middle class house, and that his father was co-proprietor of the firm of Dawber & Stephenson, bone and seed crushers and linseed oil manufacturers.
Rgds
John |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1021
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 5:40 pm: |
|
John
Thanks for the reference.
I hope to have an opportunity of reading "The True Face" fairly soon, if my library can manage to get hold of it. (Unfortunately, they seem to have turned very "anti-book" recently, which makes it a bit awkward for what libraries used to call "readers", but now presumably know as "customers", "clients", "surfers" or quite possible just "suckers".)
Chris Phillips
|
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 455
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:42 pm: |
|
Chris....
I have to get a new one myself. Mine is falling apart. Look on AmazonUK or EBay....maybe they have a copy or two for sale...
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 396
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 8:14 pm: |
|
From Hull Mr Brown sir, I send you one or two photographs I took today of sites related to these seed crushing Stephensons.
The first one was taken looking north in present day Wincolmlee (formerly Church Street) to show the approximate sight of Union Mill, owned by Richard Stephenson. Many of the old buildings have disappeared, but any one of the three buildings on the left of the picture could have been Union Mill, although the middle one bears the name of Grosvenor Mill.
The low brick wall in the foreground is Stone Chair, this was originally some steps leading down to the River Hull, were the inhabitants of the Charterhouse, an ancient almeshouse, went to collect water. It marks the ancient boundary between the parishes of Trippett and Sculcoates.
 |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 397
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 8:24 pm: |
|
Just across the road is the Charterhouse, which was once in the charge of the father of Andrew Marvel, opposite that is the Masters house, a blue plaque in the wall reads "here from 1624 until 1640 while his father was master of the Charterhouse lived Andrew Marvel (1621-1678), poet, public servant and member of parliament for Kingston Upon Hull" The building was exstensivley rebuilt in the 1950's following war damage. (Slightly off topic, but what the hell)
 |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 398
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 8:32 pm: |
|
Maurice Jewel Stephenson owned a mill at Hull Bridge, Beverley. An information display at Hull Bridge contains a map showing the site of Hull Bridge Mill (oil and bone) the photograph taken from the bridge shows the site of this mill, and it may be that the old buildings with blue doors would once have been part of this mill. The site has now been redeveloped into a factory. Also shown is Hull Bridge House (furtherst away from the river), which may have been part of the mill
 |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 399
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 8:41 pm: |
|
Oak House, North Bar Within, Beverley, this large house in probably the most prosperous street in town shows that Robert Ranby Stephenson must surely have been a wealthy man ( I believe he was also proprietor of the Beverley Aerated Water Company). A plaque on the chimney breast bears the date 1880, although from the size of the bricks I would have expected it to have been older, the black and white timbering on the upper floors may well not be original, as this was a style popular in the 1920-30's. The house next door, also with black and white timbering has a wood carving above the front door with the date 1894.
 |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 400
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 8:46 pm: |
|
That should of course have read North Bar Without.
This shows what can happen if you try and drink beer whilst attempting technical thingummys on the computer.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 458
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 9:33 pm: |
|
Mr. Savage...
Beautiful photographs, sir. A tribute to you and the beer you were drinking. Terrific work, my friend !
These people had bucks,John...Somewhere there has to be a reference to the source and name,and I think we will find it, of which family member[s] supported Stephenson.
The man's last known job is in 1868 [ the few and far between articles we know of come after trips to Africa,not before...]..all his drugging,drinking,traveling expenses,and cavorting with the people that he did took money, not mentioning his minimum sustinence requirements. There's a two decade gap from the Customs House to London Hospital.
John...extremely impressive photos and a very kind thing you did by sharing them on the thread.
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 402
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
Isabella Stephenson - died 1891?
I have checked the National Probate Calendars for 1891-96 and can find no will, although it is not unknown for a will to be proved many years after death.
Also I have checked the death registers for 1891 and cannot find anyone under the name Isabella who died in the Hull area in 1891. I found two, one aged 8 and the other in her 30's, but in other parts of the country.
Can you check that Isabella is the correct name and also year?
Thanks
John |
Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina
Post Number: 245
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 12:26 pm: |
|
John,
Isabella Stephenson (Age 81)
1891 June quarter, Sculcoates, East Riding of Yorkshire
Volume 9d Page 194
Nina |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 465
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 5:04 pm: |
|
Thanks Nina !
In 1889,the 178 pounds that RDS left in the will would be slightly less than $900 American dollars.
Not much.
As Chris Phillips mentioned,perhaps the father left most [and in this case, it looks like nearly all..] in the form of other tangible assets...such as land.
Who do we have to see about land transactions in the Hull area from 1889-1892 [ which would cover Isabella's possible assets, as well as the fathers ] ?
Because if we strike out on the father,as I suspect we will...that leaves his Mom.
I'm thinking along the lines of land/other property being doled out to Sudden Death...but yet...in 1891,the man is living in a hotel.
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 403
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 7:56 pm: |
|
Hi Nina,
Many thanks for that, I shall go back and try again.
Rgds
John |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 404
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 8:02 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
Land Transactions for Hull and East Yorkshire where recorded in the Yorkshire Registry of Deeds, however registration was not compulsory so there is no guarantee we will find anything. It is a few years since I last had to go there and I recall that you need to have very specific information of dates, addresses etc.
These records are held by the East Riding County Council at Beverley.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 471
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 8:18 pm: |
|
John...
Thanks,my man. I think the exact date of Isabells and the old man's deaths are here..
Isabella Stephenson (Age 81)
1891 June quarter, Sculcoates, East Riding of Yorkshire
Volume 9d page 194
The father, Richard, died in January 1889..
If you go,let us know how you make out,John..if not,then we can try to access it from here.
Thanks...
HowBrown
|
Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 671
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:10 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
I really have nothing to add here, except that my reflexes have slowed down of late - I suddenly realized the title of this thread "From HULL" is a inside joke. I startled I did not think about what was the basis for that title to the thread.
I guess you caught me when you could, Mr. Brown.
Best wishes,
Jeff |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 472
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 5:42 am: |
|
J.B.
"I guess you caught me when you could.."
Howaboutdat ! It ain't supposed to be easy sneakin' up behind a New Yorker.
Hope you understood the old school Yiddish on that other thread [ D'onston in 1891 ]...
If I hadn't put the letters so close together,I think you would have caught it right off the bat, J.B.
HowBrown
|
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 474
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 5:45 pm: |
|
Heres the reply from Mrs. Parker from Hull that I had been waiting for regarding the matter of...
Dear Mr Brown..
Thank you for your e mail referred to me by Gareth Watkins. I have checked the entries listed in your message and can confirm that the males were not brothers.
Additionally, Hull and Sculcoates were separate registration districts until 1937.
Yours sincerely
Dorothy Parker
Superintendent Registrar
e mail Dorothy.Parker@hullcc.gov.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Scotthorne Kerry On Behalf Of Register Office
Sent: 27 May 2005 08:35
To: Parker Dorothy
Subject: FW: Hello Mr. Watkins !!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Donston1888@aol.com [mailto:Donston1888@aol.com]
Sent: 26 May 2005 21:59
To: register.office@hullcc.gov.uk
Cc: Donston1888@aol.com
Subject: Hello Mr. Watkins !!!
Dear Mr.Watkins...
A few days ago,I asked for information on some people who lived in Sculcoates back in the 1840's....
Is it possible for you to check and see if the two males listed here are brothers?
I sincerely appreciate anything you can find,sir.
It lists these Stephenson births in the West Sculcoates subdistrict in 1841:
STEPHENSON, Mary E, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/126
STEPHENSON, Richard R, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/143
STEPHENSON, Robert D, West Sculcoates, Hull, WES/2/130
Also,was Sculcoates a part of Hull in the 1840's or a separate entity with its own registry?
So it looks like these two Stephensons were not brothers,according to Mrs. Parker.
HowBrown
|
Restless Spirit
Detective Sergeant
Username: Judyj
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 6:34 pm: |
|
John Savage
Beautiful set of pictures. Clear as a bell. Helps us understand what we are discussing. It's great to see the real thing as opposed to having to imagine same.
Great job.
regards
Restless Spirit
|
Chris Scott
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chris
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 01, 2005 - 7:38 pm: |
|
How
thanks for clarifying the status of Richard Rodford Stephenson
Well done amigo
Chris |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 405
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 9:16 am: |
|
Howard,
I have now checked the National Probate Calendars from 1891-1902 for Issablla Stephenson's will, but without success. This does not mean that she did not make one as probate can sometimes be granted many years after death (I came across some Stephensons of Beverley were probate was granted up to 40 years after death). It may also be that because of the low value of her husbands estate, she had nothing worth making a will for, if you obtain his will that may be a next step in our research.
I did come across the following in the calendars for 1899:
Stephenson Mary Elizabeth of Hull Bridge near Beverley Yorkshire (wife of Arthur Stephenson died 14 December 1898 at 10 Wyndham Place Bryanston Square Middlesex Probate London 25 January to the said Arthur Stephenson merchant. Effects £230.
I do not know if this is relevant, however Bryanston Square, London is a very central address, off Oxford Street, a few hundred yards from Marble Arch, so would indicate wealth, and a London connection.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 484
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 6:11 pm: |
|
John:
Excellent work,sir. Anything you can find is valuable,as it may segue into something even better..
Nina is waiting for that will now,John,regarding the old man...Thanks for the news that wills can take longer than expected to be settled...we ain't about to allow that to get us down !
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 407
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 9:26 am: |
|
Howard
I have just checked the registers for Robert Ranby Stephenson.
Death Certificate: Age 80 June quarter 1919, Beverley 9a 102
Birth Certificate: June quarter 1838, Beverley, 23 9
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 488
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 2:08 pm: |
|
More good work on your part,John...you are the goods.
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 417
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 4:49 pm: |
|
Hi Howard ,
I came across a catalogue for an auction, May 1880, for a Robert Stephenson who was leaving Beverley.
I don't know yet if he is connected to our Stephensons, but it is clear that he had money, so I thought you might like a look at the opening page.
 |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 586
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 6:30 pm: |
|
Lord Savage, you are spectacular,sir.
If you go to this auction,check out what sort of wines they have and pick up a bottle or two...After 125 years,they oughta be powerful potables for sure !
Thanks for sharing this, John ! Very nice find.
P.S. I could use a new loin cover ,if they have any left. Spot me a tenner and I'll pay ya back. I'm good for it.
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 420
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 7:40 pm: |
|
Howard,
You asked for the Wine List sir, happy to oblige.
Rgds
John |
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1565
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 3:17 am: |
|
Hi all
Just been down to Beverley imbibing with Richard Norfolk and Robert Stephenson. . . boy those old wines sure pack a wallop!  
Great find, John, and it will be interesting to see if this fits into the story of D'Onston or his relatives.
All my best
Chris
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
See "Jack--The Musical" by Chris George & Erik Sitbon
The Drama of Jack the Ripper Weekend
Charlotte, NC, September 16-18, 2005
http://www.actorssceneunseen.com/ripper.asp
|
Christopher T George
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Chrisg
Post Number: 1566
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 3:35 am: |
|
Hi John
In regard to your post about the look of Oak House, North Bar Within, Beverley, once owned by Robert Ranby Stephenson, you state:
"A plaque on the chimney breast bears the date 1880, although from the size of the bricks I would have expected it to have been older, the black and white timbering on the upper floors may well not be original, as this was a style popular in the 1920-30's."
John, you are correct, of course, that "mock Tudor" was popular in the 1920-30's, and the house in which I lived in south Liverpool, up the street from Jim and Florie Maybrick's Battlecrease mansion (!), was built in that period, and had such half timbering on the gable.
However, the style was also used, although on a less widespread scale, in the later nineteenth century, after the revived Gothic style had been popularized by Pugin.
Port Sunlight, Cheshire, an industrial village founded in 1888 by William Hesketh Lever for his soap factory workers, is one of the most famous examples of such revival half-timbered architecture in the period. See photo below.
In terms of the bricks visible in the Stephenson house, I should think that if they are regular size bricks they are consistent with the period as well -- small bricks usually denote an older building. Elizabethan bricks, for example, were considerably smaller than modern bricks, so that if the bricks are large that is usually an indication that the building is a modern, i.e., 19th-20th century, "mock" half timbered building.
All my best
Chris
(Message edited by ChrisG on June 21, 2005)
Christopher T. George
North American Editor
Ripperologist
http://www.ripperologist.info
See "Jack--The Musical" by Chris George & Erik Sitbon
The Drama of Jack the Ripper Weekend
Charlotte, NC, September 16-18, 2005
http://www.actorssceneunseen.com/ripper.asp
|
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 614
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 7:23 pm: |
|
Getting off the subject for a second,C.G.
Is that Lever one of the Lever Brothers of soap fame? Here I was under the impression that Americans invented soap...
Just kidding,C.G...
...I meant the French.
John old man...one day I hope, me and you can crack open a bottle 'o claret together. Nice list. Good to see that Old man Stephenson liked the sauce.
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 422
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 7:58 pm: |
|
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the information about Port Sunlight and the "mock tudor", it is many years since I drove quickly through Port Sunlight, and I had quite forgotten about it. Also I never realised how old it was.
The bricks used at Oak House are of a smaller size than the mass produced ones of the late victorian period, and also appear to be worn more than I would have expected.
Below is a picture of the chimney breast showing a detail of the brickwork, I would be most grateful for your thoughts. It may not help us find Jack, but at least it may help settlt my curiousity.
Rgds
John |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 6:04 am: |
|
Hi Howard,
From a file of previous correspondence that I found whilst snooping around the local library, I was able to find the following information on the Stephenson family.
In local directories, a Richard Stephenson first appears in the 1830’s as a bone and cake merchant, at 47, Silvester Street, Hull. By 1840 a Richard Stephenson appears as a member of the firm of Dawber and Stephenson, bone, linseed, and rape cake crushers and merchants, North Side, Old Dock, with a home address at 35 Charles Street. A Robert Dawber is listed at 135 Church Street, Sculcoates.
By 1846 Dawber and Stephenson is not listed, but a Robert Stephenson is given as a bone and seed crusher, Church Street, Sculcoates.
From 1851 the entries are as follows: -
1851
Richard Stephenson, merchant and bone and seed crusher, Union Mills 135 Church Street, Wincolmlee.
1855
Richard Stephenson, Union bone and oil mill, Church Street.
1858-1861
Richard Stephenson, bone and seed crusher and oil merchant, Church Street Wincolmlee, and blood manure works Bankside Sculcoates.
1863
Richard Stephenson Jun. Of Rayner Stephenson & Co. house, Willow House Sculcoates. (N.B. Rayner, Stephenson & Co are listed as merchants at Princes Chambers, High Street)
Richard Stephenson, blood manure works, Bankside, Sculcoates.
1867
Richard Stephenson & Co. bone and glue manufacturers, Bankside.
Richard Stephenson (Stephenson & Co) and receiver of Corporation dues; h. Willow House, Sculcoates.
Richard Stephenson, jun. Merchant and shipowner (Rayner, S. & Co) and vice-consul for Uruguay; h. Willow House, Sculcoates.
1872
Richard Stephenson, shipbroker, High Street; res. Willow House, Church Street, Sculcoates.
Richard Stephenson, glue mfr., 16 John Street.
1874/5
Not listed in alphabetical commercial section.
Richard Stephenson, Church Street, listed in private resident’s section.
1876
Not listed in alphabetical section
Not listed in street section
No Willow House listed on Church Street.
1879
Not listed in commercial section
A Richard Stephenson is listed in private residents section at 48, Spring Bank
From the 1867 Hull directory and the 1866/7 Burgess Roll it appears that Willow House was in Church Street, Sculcoates. The 1861 census for Church Street, shows Richard Stephenson, linseed rapeseed and bone crusher, and his family at 135 Church Street Sculcoates, including Robert D. Stephenson, aged 19. By 1871 the occupant of Willow House is given as Richard Stephenson Jnr. Aged 31, listed as consul, Councillor, and timber merchant.
An attempt to trace Willow House was made and an O.S. map of 1853 shows a large house in the area with industrial housing beginning to surround it, but the next map surveyed in 1889/90, shows the whole area completely built up, with a Willow Terrace on the site of the large house.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 626
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 5:00 pm: |
|
John:
What can one say,other than terrific work !
Nice finds...very nice.
Regards
How
HowBrown
|
auspirograph
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 6:31 am: |
|
Hi John,
Thanks for that interesting info, very useful indeed.
One point. In the 1851 census there is an entry for Robert Dawber as head of the household living at 35 Charles Street. It appears that the Stephensons and the Dawbers were into house swapping. I guess they could afford it...
----------------------------------------------
1851 - 35 Charles Street, Hull, East Yorkshire HO107/2361/586
Robert DAWBER Head M 39 Bone Merchant Hull, YKS
(& others)
#138 Mary Ann EELES Serv U 15 House Servant Hull, YKS
----------------------------------------------
Any thoughts on this???
Spiro
auspirograph@yahoo.com |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 425
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:29 pm: |
|
Hi auspirograph,
Thanks for that entry from the 1851 census, very interesting.
It is hard to tell what was going on, but we already know of the close connection between the Dawber and the Stephenson families. I will make two suggestions:-
(a) Dawber sold the house to Richard Stephenson.
(b) Dawber rented part of the house to Richard Stephenson.
Over the weekend I shall be having a look down Charles Street to see if number 35 still exists, however I have my doubts, as a world war, slum clearance and a new road have left very few original buildings.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 627
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:56 pm: |
|
Hey Spiro ! Glad to see you !!
John........This relationship between these two families seems pretty close. It brings up a new idea,to me at least,as you may have already considered it..
...that someone in the Dawber family,possibly an Uncle to RDS, may have left something to him. In addition,maybe someone in the Dawber clan provided a source of money for RDS during his life. I wonder if the Dawber's were affluent....
Thanks for the addition,Spiro...appreciated,mon ami !
HowBrown
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 429
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 7:05 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
This relationship between the Dawbers and the Stephensons does look very close, and certainly I think it worth further investigation.
Were the Dawbers affluent? Did you ever meet a poor solicitor? Interestingly I just found two entries in the local telephone directory for the name Dawber.
Rgds
John |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 441
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 6:22 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
As I am sure you will recall Donston suffered a gunshot wound whilst sailing off Flamborough, he was taken ashore at Flamborough and removed to Bridlington for surgery.
It being a beautiful summer day, we were out that way today, and the below picture is of North Landing, Flamborough, were Donston was most likely taken ashore. This is one of several small bays set into the cliffs and in my opinion excellent smuggling territory.
 |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 720
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 7:33 pm: |
|
Nice photo John.
Thanks for sharing that here. |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 482
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 9:37 pm: |
|
Hi All,
A few days ago on another thread, we were talking about Donston's work at the customs house in Hull. This got we wondering were the building may have been.
A little investigation revealed that it was located in Whitefriargate, now part of the city's main shopping area. What is more I have walked past it a thousand times without ever realising that this was were Donston would have worked.
The building was first constructed in 1797 as the Neptune Inn, and became the customs house c1810-1911. The below picture shows only half of the building, as the street being very narrow, I was unable to get a better photo.
Rgds
John
|
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 951
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:44 am: |
|
John..
Thanks as always for your yeoman work and photos. I wish I could take pictures as well as you. Thats a good 'un.
Out of curiosity,do you know where they took the records of the original Customs House after they moved from there? Would they be in a newer version of The Customs House or perhaps down at "City Hall" ?
Thank you,sor......... |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 483
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 7:01 pm: |
|
Hi Howard,
Glad you liked the photograph, not one of my best and now the camera has started giving me messages in German!
When the customs house above closed they transfered to a building a few hundred yards away in Lowgate (now a restaurant called "The Old Custom House") That one was replaced in the 1950/60's, so I guess that a lot of old records, would have been destroyed at each move. I doubt that anything would have been transferred to the City Hall or Guildhall, as Her Majesty's Customs and Excise is a government department, quite seperate from local government.
What records were you thinking of speciffically?
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 958
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 8:41 pm: |
|
Sav:
It would be nice to access personnel files from 1868,which I'm sure you would agree with,for this reason below, if not others.....
It would be also be nice to see what duties RDS performed there....not to mention his drumming out from the C.H.
I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't mention the specifics as Harris intimated from the short excerpt in True Face [ possibly venereal disease or associating with prostitutes or whatever the women were described as..or maybe he sucked at his job ?]. However,maybe we could do better at gauging all the details....
Great work all around my friend !
All the best..
How
|
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 490
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 7:36 pm: |
|
Hi Howard
I have today been at the Brynmor Jones Library at the University of Hull were I have discovered a file of some two hundred or more documents relating to the Stephenson family of Beverley. As visitors are only allowed in the afternoon between 2 – 5pm I have not yet studied these files fully, today I managed only about eight or ten and going through them all is going to take a few weeks, as and when I can find the time.
The file appears to deal largely with the seed crushing family of Stephenson of Hull Bridge, and I should remind you that I have not yet proved conclusively that old sudden death is related to them, although it is to my mind likely. I shall be writing up a full report of my visit at the weekend and will post it here if you wish.
In the meantime, from this file, I have been looking at the bank books of one John Stephenson (died c1904) who it seems was the owner of the Hull Bridge mill until his death. Now what caught my attention was that in some of these bank books quarterly payments of £2 13s 4d. are made to someone or something called R d S (and in one instance R d Stephenson). These payments continue until 18th. November 1905 after which time they no longer appear, but other quarterly payments to A Stephenson carry on until at least 12th. May 1908.
I cannot yet say for sure if these payments are relevant, but it is possible that this could be some sort of annuity paid to Donston. As I have said it is going to take time to read and absorb this very large collection, so please remember that at the moment I am still “finding my way”.
Below is a page from one of John Stephenson’s bank books
 |
John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 491
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 7:44 pm: |
|
And here is a close up of that entry.
 |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 - 7:54 pm: |
|
John:
Its good I suppose that you live so far away from me. Because if you were standing here,I would crush you much akin to the seeds of Stephenson with a bear hug !!! What a potentially great find !!!!
Take your time,my man...take your time. Maybe you've found a source for the Great Freeloaders room and board.
Great work,John !!! |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5018
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2005 - 4:08 am: |
|
Marvellous work, John! If this turns out to be a payment to Donston, it wouldn't keep him in the lap of luxury - about four bob a week - but it would go very nicely with any other money he had coming in.
Robert |
|
Use of these
message boards implies agreement and consent to our Terms of Use.
The views expressed here in no way reflect the views of the owners and
operators of Casebook: Jack the Ripper.
Our old message board content (45,000+ messages) is no longer available online, but a complete archive
is available on the Casebook At Home Edition, for 19.99 (US) plus shipping.
The "At Home" Edition works just like the real web site, but with absolutely no advertisements.
You can browse it anywhere - in the car, on the plane, on your front porch - without ever needing to hook up to
an internet connection. Click here to buy the Casebook At Home Edition.
|
|
|
|
