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AP Wolf
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Apwolf
Post Number: 2501
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 4:00 pm: | 
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Thanks Gareth
Running on that theme, I have found this interesting little case of 'Murder at Godalming' from 9th January 1889, where a supposed 'artist' named Jenkins lures his 'sweetheart' to his studio, brutally rapes her and then strangles her.
The police report on the event states that 'The prisoner's mind had been affected by reading accounts of the Whitechapel Murders.'
This report sort of says to me that maybe you are right, that a copycat killer would not always cause the massive carnage that was MJK, but rather use a germ of that carnage to carry his strange purpose.
Perhaps more importantly I would say is the fact that a young chap is using the crimes of the Whitechapel Murderer to engage and employ his sexual fantasy, which sort of tells me that many folk in the LVP did see Jack's crimes as inherently sexual in nature, even if we don't today.
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 890
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2005 - 9:55 pm: |
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Hi Chris P,
It's sad how you keep talking about how I supposedly refuse to admit a mistake when you still falsely claim that you are right even after several different sources have been posted to show you wrong. Of course what's worse is that you are so unwilling to admit mistakes that you attack myself personally, my magazine, and anyone who responds to you to point out that you are wrong. You've got a whole insecure slash and burn mentality at work here, and it's really not doing you any good.
If you'd like to apologize to Caz, Ally, Julie, Howard, Rob and myself (and any other targets of your misplaced ire above that I may have missed), I'm sure at least most of us would be willing to forgive and forget.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1391
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 3:26 am: |
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Dan
I'll let the rest of your bizarre statements pass, otherwise this will go on forever, but please could you clarify this bit?
It's sad how you keep talking about how I supposedly refuse to admit a mistake
[my emphasis]
Does that mean you have admitted it, and I missed it, or do you still claim that "straight jacket" is the "more preferred" spelling? (In which case perhaps you meant to write "how I refuse to admit a supposed mistake".)
Chris Phillips
(Message edited by cgp100 on September 12, 2005) |
Sarah Long
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Sarah
Post Number: 1343
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 6:22 am: |
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*slaps Chris around the head and runs away with his socks*
I'm sorry, was the childish? I thought we were in the playground once again.
Disclaimer: Sarah Long has never slapped anyone around the head in a playground and certainly never partook in the act of sock robbery. No matter what anyone says.
Smile and the world will wonder what you've been up to 
Smile too much and the world will guess 
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 953
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
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Folks...
I think that A.P. Wolf's important discoveries of numerous murders and one where someone asked a woman if "she would like to be done up like the Whitechapel Murderer.." could mean this:
Not necessarily a copycat murder [ the MJK ], it may have been influenced by the Ripper. As far as someone killing MJK to make it "fit in" with the previous WM,same thing...an act influenced by the Ripper....but not to make it "fit in" on purpose........fitting this murder in so that The Ripper would get "credit" for it.
There's a line of distinction between copycatting and a murder that is similar to one previously committed.
Again,a copycat wants to intentionally emulate a crime committed. An influenced-murder is one that was committed that appears to share patterns of a prior murder[s], but is based on the influence [ made available by the two months of anxiety,gossip,and awareness ] and not consciously done.
I think A.P. has done a real service for the future here,by turning up all these other crimes.
Any thoughts?
You're a gem.A.P.
(Message edited by howard on September 12, 2005) |
Glenn G. Lauritz Andersson
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Glenna
Post Number: 4018
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:41 pm: |
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Howie, old boy.
"There's a line of distinction between copycatting and a murder that is similar to one previously committed.
Again,a copycat wants to intentionally emulate a crime committed. An influenced-murder is one that was committed that appears to share patterns of a prior murder[s], but is based on the influence [ made available by the two months of anxiety,gossip,and awareness ] and not consciously done."
Excellently put, and I have myself once pointed this distinction out.
I agree that the term 'copy-cat' here is a bit misleading, and it really would be more relevant to see things here in terms of 'influence' rather than deliberate, professional copycat, if now this option could be worth considering.
All the best
G. Andersson, writer/historian
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 955
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 1:36 pm: |
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Glenn...
Even today, many times people [ and I have seen an instance personally ] will call back to the days of The Ripper when they get cut on knives,machines,or other things.
A guy a work cut his forearm up on metal wires used to "bale" material for the scrap pile. I remember the guy looking at his arm [ this was several years ago too...] and saying, "Damn..Looks like I got Jack The Rippered !!". The guy had zero interest in the WM...probably never saw a program on the Case or read a book or article on it...and out of the blue,my man says "Jack The Ripper"....over 110 years later. I wasn't even close to being interested as I am now in the Case either...
It didn't take long for JTR to become a cultural fixture....and he still is.
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Julie
Detective Sergeant
Username: Judyj
Post Number: 135
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 4:36 pm: |
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AP
I agree with Howard that you have done a splendid job digging up this info on additional crimes, and it certainly could be very important for future research and discussions
with respect
Julie
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Rodney Peters
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 9:53 am: |
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Chris Phillips.
Hello Chris
I've just returned from a short visit to relatives, and therefore only just seen your post.
I'll answer your questions one at a time.
With regard to Israel Schwartz's identification of Stride's body, I frankly find that very dubious. I've known of similar incidents close to home, where frightened passers-by have been unable to identify either victim or assailant in far better street lighting.
This guy was terrified. He comes across a man throwing a woman down on the pavement in very poor light. The man rounds upon him, and a second man appears, frightening him into running away. Is it likely, that in these brief moments, he would be looking at anything else but the men ??
He had no time for a leisurely study of the woman.
I believe that when he heard of the murder, he assumed that it must have been the incident he saw, and made the identification accordingly. How many wrong identifications have we heard of, even today ??
With regard to my failure to register, I'll say this. Firstly, "NO", I've never been banned from anything in my life.
As a keen Ripper student, I very much enjoy reading the posts on Casebook, as a hobby you might say, and occasionally, like now, make a contribution. What I "DON'T" enjoy, is the appalling manners of a number of people. I detest disrespect and bad manners in any form. As a former Army Boxer, I learned to respect others the hard way, and have also taught a few some manners in the ring. I don't register on anything, just to be given a demonstration on disrespect and insulting behaviour.
So, if I've answered all your points satisfactorily, I shall return to browsing these message boards for the simple pleasure of it.
Regards
Rod
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2127
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 2:07 pm: |
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Hi All,
Just caught up with this hilarious Barnett thread.
So it seems that, in yet another effort to insult me, Chris Phillips actually insulted Phil, when all he did was to use the alternative spelling straight, in asking me not to put him in such a jacket, to which I responded, using the same spelling, that I don't think Jack belongs in one either, on current evidence - or rather, lack of.
I think it was Frank who correctly summed up my position, ie that I don't know enough about Jack to guess what he wouldn't have done or where he wouldn't have gone, when in the mood to rip.
BTW, my Chambers gives me 'straitjacket', so in future I'll be inclined to spell it that way. Does anyone know how old the word is? I'd be interested to find out. My dad always used to tut when people wrote 'plain' sailing, insisting it should be spelled 'plane' sailing. But it may depend when one was writing it. Language can change over time, and no doubt it can sometimes change back again.
Love,
Caz
X |
Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert
Post Number: 5013
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 2:21 pm: |
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Caz, if your plane is sailing you need a new pilot.
Robert |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1427
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 4:08 pm: |
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Caroline Morris
And strangely enough, not too many decades ago, Kenneth Williams argued satirically that "Hippodrome" should obviously be pronounced Hippodromey - because who in their right mind would think of pronouncing "Syndrome" as Sindroam? (No one today would think of pronouncing it otherwise!)
Chris Phillips
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2146
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 10:07 am: |
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Hi Chris,
Anything Kenneth Williams said is ok by me.
"Infamy infamy, they've all got it in-fa-me!" 
Love,
Caz
X
PS Robert, it was my dad's plane that was sailing, but we were both rotten at anything technical like that.  |
Helge Samuelsen
Inspector
Username: Helge
Post Number: 404
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 11:24 am: |
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Well, just to set it straight - it's strait.
"Noun use of adj. strait "narrow, strict" (c.1290), from O.Fr. estreit (Fr. étroit) "tight, close, narrow" (also used as a noun), from L. strictus, pp. of stringere "bind or draw tight"
"Strait-jacket is attested from 1814, earlier strait-waistcoat 1753"
From the Etymology Dictionary
But of course, the ALTERNATIVE spelling is straight jacket, but it is obviously "wrong", inasmuch as it is only used because of the similarity of the words straight and strait.
The MEANING of the term (straitjacket) only really makes sense if it is spelled correctly, though.
Trust me.
Helge
"If Spock were here, he'd say that I was an irrational, illlogical human being for going on a mission like this... Sounds like fun!" -- (Kirk - Generations)
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Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1458
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:04 pm: |
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Helge
Yes - thankfully I think everyone's agreed on that now.
Makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, doesn't it?
Chris Phillips
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Helge Samuelsen
Inspector
Username: Helge
Post Number: 405
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 12:45 pm: |
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Indeed, Chris, Indeed!
I just love the term strait-waistcoat, though. And talking about strait, we have strait-laced as well. Interesting subject.
Helge
"If Spock were here, he'd say that I was an irrational, illlogical human being for going on a mission like this... Sounds like fun!" -- (Kirk - Generations)
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Julie
Inspector
Username: Judyj
Post Number: 164
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 6:44 pm: |
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Helge
It depends on which dictionary you refer to as to the correct spelling.
I posted an email a little while ago stating page numbers and dictionary information with respect to same.
You may want to refer to this post, unfortunately I don't have the post date off hand.
It may be wrong as you have stated however, those who have stated both spellings with same or similar definition are not wrong in that they have stated both spellings and meanings are the same, if anything we have been misled by the Dictionarys and reference books that we have referred to.
best regards
Julie
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Helge Samuelsen
Inspector
Username: Helge
Post Number: 406
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 4:58 am: |
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Julie,
You probably misread me if you thought I meant that straightjacket was "wrong". I clearly state it is an alternative spelling.
Dictionaries define current use of words. And they do list straight-jacket. No problem, as it is indeed an alternative spelling in use today.
But the original word, dating from 1814, derives from the earlier strait-waistcoat, known from the mid 1700's. And the spelling IS originally strait, simply because it has evolved from the word strait - not straight.
Strait being derived from stringere, that is to bind or draw tight, exactly the point of this type of jacket!
Pretty strait-forward.
Pedantic, yes. Interesting? Maybe. Pertinent to further discussion? Probably not.
Helge
"If Spock were here, he'd say that I was an irrational, illlogical human being for going on a mission like this... Sounds like fun!" -- (Kirk - Generations)
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Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2161
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 5:24 am: |
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Hi Chris,
Makes you wonder what all the fuss was about, doesn't it?
Indeed - I never did understand why you started all the fuss by mocking me for repeating Phil's use of the alternative (and perfectly acceptable) 'straight'.
But it did serve to demonstrate how short of amunition you must be these days. So it wasn't all bad - just a bit desperate.
Love,
Caz
X |
Chris Phillips
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Cgp100
Post Number: 1488
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 07, 2005 - 5:53 am: |
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Caroline Morris wrote (resurrecting a thread in which the last message was posted a week ago):
But it did serve to demonstrate how short of amunition you must be these days. So it wasn't all bad - just a bit desperate.
Hmmm.
Chris Phillips
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Richard Brian Nunweek
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Richardn
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 4:05 am: |
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test password.
Just testing my password accidently crossed it out and just to make sure it was installed proberly. |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2176
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 9:16 am: |
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Hi Chris,
Some of us have trouble catching up with posts on a daily basis because we have other things going on in our lives. If you were paying attention you would have noticed this isn't the only thread where I am a week or more behind with my responses.
And I couldn't not respond to your breathtaking words, considering it was you who caused the fuss in the first place with your misdirected barb. But I can see why you now wish I would shut up about it.
You're in luck - I will now shut up about it.
Love,
Caz
X |
Caroline Anne Morris
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Caz
Post Number: 2177
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 13, 2005 - 9:46 am: |
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Double post - apologies (that was ironic! )
(Message edited by caz on October 13, 2005) |
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