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Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Message Boards » Suspects » Stephenson, Roslyn Donston » STEPHENSON....AND SON « Previous Next »

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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard

Post Number: 691
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 8:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Below is the e-mail repartee between Ms. Kim Farnell,the author of Mystical Vampire and myself today .I placed it here so that all could see the significance of this. Ms.Farnell's responses are emboldened...The census at bottom is from 1901.

**************************************************
Hi,

I recently wrote a book review of your book, Mystical Vampire, for Casebook at www.casebook.org

I enjoyed your book very much,despite not being really hip to Theosophy. The review is on the site under suspects....Robert Stephenson...and then under the sub-forum, Mystical Vampire--the life of Mabel Collins.
Thanks for that, just popped in to take a look.

I appreciate that you brought up Mrs. Collins November 1892 bankruptcy[ that had nothing to do with Stephenson], because it has been assumed that Stephenson was the cause of her financial demise. Now, we know better.

I guess he didn't help her finances...but then Mabel never seemed to keep a strong grip on the little money she had. The accounts I managed to dig up at the Theosophical Society in London showed that they at least paid her peanuts for the work she produced, often nothing. She didn't need help to go bankrupt :-)
One quick question if you don't mind....Could you tell me, a Stephenson-researcher, where you located the information that Stephenson adopted a boy, this Harman Wheas,the 6 year old..? I would certainly appreciate it.

It's been a long time since I wrote this so my memory is unreliable and I've had to dig around in some files. The extract below is from the 1901 census, I believe I simply cross referenced by address. I can't quickly find anything else that refers to this, there may be nothing more as it was so peripheral to Mabel, but I'll have a check through when I have a minute.

Whether or not he *could* have adopted a child - adoption at this time was a private matter, we're not referring to the same process as today. There wasn't a general adoption statute in England until 1926. The tempting view is, of course, that he adopted his own child. However, children were also advertised in the press for adoption, so it's anyone's guess.

I think you will be pleased with my review.

Yes, thank you for that. (One nitpicky point though if you don't mind - the Keightleys were uncle and nephew, although they're popularly thought to be brothers, owing to their closeness in age.

Thanks for your interest. I hope Mabel's fanbase will increase and I've succeeded in rescuing her from being a ditzy female in a footnote.

Best,

Kim}
**************************************************

Robert Stephenson.........


Relation to Head of Family-----Head
Condition as to Marriage -----W [ widow ]
Age Last Birthday-------------59
Sex ------------M



Profession or Occupation--------railway porter
Employment Status ----worker
Infirmity ----[left blank]
Where Born ----Yorkshire,Hull
Address ---- 2 Kingston Terr.
Civil Parish ----Sculcoates
Town ----Hull
Borough ----East Division
Ecclesiastical Parish ----St. Silas
Administrative County ----Kingston Upon Hull


......and son.... !!!!!


Harman Wheas
Age 6
male
place of birth---Lincoln Grimaby





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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard

Post Number: 692
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 8:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This now creates a problem [ possibly ] with the previous census that was taken by Chris Scott.

That 1901 census is under the Census,Christening and Registry Thread.

In Chris's census, Stephenson is listed far differently than the one that Ms. Farnell has uncovered. Not only is there no adopted child,as in Ms. Farnell's discovery,but in Chris's census, the age is incorrect. In Ms. Farnell's, it is correct. Stephenson WAS 59 in early 1901.

Everything about the find in Ms. Farnell's discovery seems to be in order...the age..the birthplace [ except,perhaps,the address..]

We need to find out if there were TWO Robert Stephensons born in 1841 in Hull. From what I remember there was only one.

It doesn't get any easier,does it ?
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Nina Thomas
Inspector
Username: Nina

Post Number: 246
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 10, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi How,

I believe the Robert Stephenson in the following 1881 census to be the same as the one listed in the above 1901 census. In 1881 he worked for the railway and he was a widow by 1901. It would have been an interesting twist to find a son, but I donít believe that this is RDS.

1881 Census - 58 Linden Street - Sculcoates - Yorkshire
Head - Robert Stephenson - age 39 - b. 1842 Hull, Yorkshire - Occupation: North Eastern Rlwy Sheetman
Wife - Sophia Stephenson - age 42 - b. 1839 Blackmore, Essex
Mother - Ann Stephenson - age 61 - b. 1820 Hull, Yorkshire
REG11/4758 - Folio 36 - Page 13

Sophia Stephenson died in the March quarter of 1900 - Sculcoates - aged 61 - Vol. 9d, page 170

Nina
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 4663
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Howard, there were two born in Hull in 1841 (unless one of these is a belated registration of a birth a year or two previous).

Births Mar 1841
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephenson Robert Carlisle 25 77
Stephenson Robert Sculcoates 22 527
Stephenson Robert Guisborough 24 373

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1841
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephenson Robert _ouston Sculcoates 22 504

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard

Post Number: 694
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 5:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There we have it..

Ain't no son in Sudden Death.

End of story.

I'll get this over to Ms. Farnell.

Thanks as usual, Nina and Robert Chazz !!!!

This guy probably never owned a cat and here..here..here I am domesticatin' him...with a little towhead running around the front yard playing cricket..."Come,Monty/Neil...its time for tea and crimpets..the wickets will be there when you're done.." D'onston wearing an apron slaving over a hot stove....yeah...right.


(Message edited by howard on July 11, 2005)

(Message edited by howard on July 11, 2005)
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Robert Charles Linford
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Robert

Post Number: 4664
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 6:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Howard, it's a shame he's the wrong one because it should be possible to have a fair stab at explaining how he came to adopt your crumpet-eating cricketer. It could all be to do with a Wheal-Stone-Blackmore-Sculcoates complex.

Anyway, that's all water under the bridge as Druitt would say.

Robert
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard

Post Number: 695
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Monday, July 11, 2005 - 3:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Robert...

..or as Renwick Williams used to say, "Bet thats a jab in the arse,ain't it ?" You bet,Renwick.

Man,I felt like Columbus for about 15 minutes there,thinking I discovered a New World..

...but,as twas ever thus, the Sun, or in this case the son, didn't rise or set..it just went "poof" on me. Oh well...back to the drawing board.

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