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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 592
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 6:02 pm: | 
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Allow me to start this off with a question for you fine people...
If W.T. Stead considered Stephenson such a remarkable man, having known him for,as Stead states, "many years"...
He certainly had the opportunity,as a "man of the people" to inform the police of his, Stephenson's,that is, attempt to be subsidized by Stead in order to hunt for the Ripper. This had to have occurred on or around the time Stead " felt" that RDS may have been the Ripper and thought,most likely erroneously or even fabricated for effect by Stead himself, that RDS had been arrested "at least once".
Does it make sense that Stead continued to allow someone he felt "may have been the Ripper..", "thought the police felt he may have been the Ripper..", asked for money [ nothing new to RDS,folks, this grubbing for money...] to " find the Ripper.." and to NOT discuss matters with the police,as a good public servant and Lion of The People should?
Your thoughts,please....
HowBrown
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Dan Norder
Chief Inspector
Username: Dannorder
Post Number: 730
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 6:31 pm: |
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Hi How,
If Stead was right in saying that Stephenson was arrested, presumably he either already had told the police his suspicions to get him arrested in the first place or solely based his suspicions on the fact that he had been arrested. If the latter is true, he had nothing to tell the police officials other than what they already knew. If the former is true, then your premise that he hadn't discussed matters with the police is obviously faulty.
If Stead wasn't right about the arrest, then he was exaggerating that part for dramatic storytelling purposes (or confused, but I don't know how a man like Stead could be confused into thinking someone as arrested when he hadn't been), and the suspicions Stead claimed to have had could have also been poetic license.
Dan Norder, Editor
Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
 Profile  Email  Dissertations  Website
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 6:39 pm: |
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Hi How,
He seems OK by me How-you will not be surprised to learn!
I mean to say
he only supported women"s rights,Home Rule and fought against child prostitution---not bad---?
....and was nominated for the first Nobel Peace Prize
Natalie |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 595
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 7:25 pm: |
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Good point Dan...Thanks for the explanation.
Nats...In case you have been following these Stephenson threads,you will notice on a couple of occasions I have been disparaging toward Stead.
This isn't meant to overshadow the contributions to society that Stead was part of or was a major player in. I'm well aware of the fact he was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. In fact, he was nominated not once, but 5 times. Thats remarkable.
On another level,as we all are far more than just good, bad,and/ or indifferent in life, its the indifference in Stead toward taking the extra step,if he really felt RDS was the Ripper,in being responsible,as he was in the suffragete and children's rights campaigns, that puzzles me if he was being truthful. I agree with the idea that Dan has posited that it may have been poetic license [ Hey ! Do-gooders can b.s. too ! ]. I for one don't believe that Stead would have continued to deal with Stephenson if he felt he was a bad egg. I think that Stead was more than likely "sales conscious" in this regard. I don't think that Stead ever felt RDS was the Ripper. I'd wager that Stephenson was the source of the claim that Stead repeated about "being arrested".
And I admire Stead myself,Nats. The fact that he lied about the "Maiden Tribute" doesn't mean that I wouldn't lie and I would in a second,had I been in Stead's shoes. On the other hand, a "little white lie" like the one he told about Stephenson is small potatoes in the scheme of things. The ONLY reason I disparaged Stead in that instance was to show how certain aspects of Stephenson's background MUST be scrutinized in a new light,even if appears as if I was forgetting his positive influence on making London a more liveable place for the poor, and more humane for children. It was too brutal a statement to call him a "convicted liar and imprisoned liar", as I did on another Stephenson thread.. For that,I stand corrected and apologize to you for the slight to Stead.
Stead would have won the Nobel,if I had had a chance to vote,Nats. Hands down winner.
HowBrown
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Natalie Severn
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Severn
Post Number: 2068
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:23 am: |
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I agree Howard,he does seem a bit of an oddball too -to say the least.You know a real pain in the rear.
But maybe this was being a newspaper editor!I am convinced it has a certain type of effect on people-they either end up playing both ends against the middle or they take a dogmatic position which he seems to have done which would be OK if you didnt know about how power can corrupt.
the power of the press and being an editor no doubt altered his view of his own importance.He may not have realised it himself-
but the circulation,its competition with other papers and journals etc might all have encouraged an opportunistic streak to develop which may have in turn allowed some corruption to seep in.
Natalie
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Jeffrey Bloomfied
Chief Inspector
Username: Mayerling
Post Number: 705
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
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Hi Howard and Natalie,
I am not one to deny anybody credit when they do something good. Charles Peace, for example, patented some machinery for salvaging while he was hiding out in Peckham as a retired wealthy man (while practicing burglary at night). But we really have to come to grips with that phenomenon Mr. William Stead.
Yes, he did support woman's suffrage, Home Rule (in his fashion - and keep that in mind, please), and international peace. But, he was a remarkably blind (willingly so) supporter of the peace movement's founder, Tsar Nicholas II of Russia - to the point that he refused to comment on other tsarist policies (like anti-Semitic laws and pogroms against Jews). His fight for Home Rule did not include protecting or trying to defend Home Rule's founder, Parnell, in the O'Shea Divorce. Stead was fanatically puritanical about any sexual matter - he also did a number in his paper on Sir Charles Dilke in the Crawford Divorce Case, and most of Dilke's views were supposedly Stead's. In part there was a degree of hypocrisy in this - sex scandals sell newspapers, including the PALL MALL GAZETTE.
He never forgave the establishment for his martyrdom in the MAIDEN TRIBUTE Case, where he spent three months in jail. For the rest of his life, every anniversary of his imprisonment, he would go to work wearing his prison suit - to remind everyone that he was a martyr to ending white slavery.
He would try to dictate to the government policy on divorce matters (successfully) and on capital punishment trials (Lipski).
Nobody is perfect - Stead is hardly perfect. Any statement he made about D'Onston, while interesting, has to be carefully examined.
Best wishes (and I wish I had more time to vent my spleen against Stead, but I have to go).
Jeff |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 603
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 5:26 pm: |
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Dan...
"If Stead was right in saying that Stephenson was arrested, presumably he either already had told the police his suspicions to get him arrested in the first place.."
I wouldn't think that that scenario would have occurred. Stephenson wrote for Stead at least two years after Kelly's murder. I don't think RDS would have gone back to Stead out of pride,if what you posited did happen and Stead the source behind RDS being detained or arrested for anything in the WM.
Thats actually what I wanted to bring up,this perception that RDS was arrested. Where did it come from ? Is it based on Stead and Stead alone?
Because RDS never stated he was arrested,himself,in anything I have ever read, yet.
HowBrown
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