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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 579
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 7:08 pm: | 
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Whats the driving force behind Stephenson-as-Ripper ? This thread is for the opinions of those who may have their own unique reasons as well as the theories of others to repeat or debate, to share and possibly explore untouched areas based on what you see in this character and what ultimately may have been the driving force behind Stephenson-as-Ripper. We can't prove he did it,gang...but its good to kick the ball around between us. Who knows? Maybe one day...someone will.
So,let me start the ball rolling here with a trio of ideas.....and be sure to fire away at 'em by all means !!!!!!!!!
1. The Syphilis Question
2. Obsessive/Compulsive Type
3. Sexual Dysfunction
Of course,feel free to add on your ideas.
Was it the pathetic and vain hope that by spilling the blood of prostitutes,he could alleviate his syphlitic condition that had reached tertiary stage by June 1888,in Brighton ? Their blood and organs used in a ritual, perhaps like one mentioned by Eliphaz Levi, that would cease the pains and possible partial paralysis he may have felt from this affliction ? We know he complained during the writing of the Patristic Gospels of the latter conditions....
Could the syphilis have created problems with Stephensons' performance[s] with women that culminated with him enacting his frustration,combined with the vain hope that something he had learned or hoped would work from spending so much time [with Lytton,in India,in Africa,Levi's writings,and with people from the Golden Dawn and the "new agers" of the 19th Century,the Theosophists] on, could work ? Could he have killed,not so much for the reason of deviancy,but for the reason to be able to perform ?
Was RDS not so much a sexual deviant,but an obsessive-compulsive type? [ several things he is said to have done,from drawing the little triangles above doors...the neatness and uncommon bathing habits...the elaboration in the December 1st article,which could have been his way of correcting his "gender" mistake on the word "Juives"....his box of magic books and bloody cravats [dipped in the blood of the women for ghastly souvenirs,not used to carry on his person..remembering the "neat freak" that he is said to have been]...the intentionally unobtrusive manner in which he is said by more than one person, to have entered rooms and moved about..and a few other bits of data that may show him to be a borderline o/c type.
Another "wish" granted by way of killing the women in the way he did? Luck,money,fame,status?
HowBrown
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Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 434
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 9:19 pm: |
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"... the pains and possible partial paralysis he may have felt from this affliction ? We know he complained during the writing of the Patristic Gospels of the latter conditions...."
Two comments, How. One, I think his comments in the Preface are rather ambiguous, and he could also be referring to the emotional distress caused by the series of murders. (Yes, a real stretch, but what the heck...)
Secondly, I am amazed by the depth of scholarship it would have taken to put together his Gospels...yet reading through accounts of his life I don't get a handle on where this scholastic background would have been acquired. What think ye, matey ?
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 581
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
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Sir Robert Bob....
Thanks for bringing that up about "where this scholastic background would have been acquired.."
This is just one of the problems regarding RDS that has never been explained,for whatever reason, and one that needs to be answered.
First of all....his early years,up until 1868, included the adventures with the British Legion..journey to see Bulwer-Lytton....and some time spent in Europe,ostensibly studying chemistry in Munich with Dr.James Allen.
At NO time does it mention him studying the materials necessary for the fabrication of the Patristic Gospels....period.
This is,or rather was, a major problem in the True Face,from my perspective,Sir Robt.A. Mr. Harris does not mention the "autobiographical article" that RDS is said to have written by name or show and share where to look for it for our perusal. Therefore,along with numerous other areas of RDS unsubstantiated background, all we are left to "go on" is this statement that there was an article with this material within it.
This is why I have been really re-thinking the possibility that Des McKenna offered a few years back in an old Ripper Notes* that posited the notion that there was another D'onston.
Lets briefly look at something Mr. McKenna stated in that underrated piece....
In 1868, our D'onston can't hold on to a job and may have contracted syphilis. He gets shot to boot.
So,sometime during 1868 to 1871, RDS[ the reckless,possibly syphlitic, late twenties ex-soldier] apparently hooked up with The Dean of Canterbury,Henry Alford,who died in 1871. Stephenson's own footnotes in the Patristic Gospels state this. Stephenson claims that Mr. Alford "assured him upon a point of interpretation" regarding the work he was stated to have been doing in translating the works needed to form the subsequent Patristic Gospels.
Okay...so what does this tell us?
It says that after all the indoctrination into Bulwer Lytton hocus pocus, that deep down RDS was a good old Christian boy...
It says that during the period after he gets venereal disease [assuming that this is true,of course], he gets back with God,studies his Christian texts....and then...
....falls out of favor with his Dad...marries his Mom's servant....gets ostracized...splits for India....and then resumes his original interest in the nonsense world of primitive superstition.
...and then,Praise The Lord !,comes back after killing 5 prostitutes....finding God and a handout from Woodhull....settling his ass down and then...
...writing the Patty G.
This observation by Mr. McKenna isn't 'twaddle" as it has been called, because it shows that on one hand,we have a wild,rambunctious,energetic RDS turning into a scholarly,studious man, back into a man who becomes an outcast { why on Earth,would his Dad disown him if he showed such promise with the groundwork for his book,decades later,then?????], into JTR, and then a Born Again scholar.....
Thats why these threads were started,Sir Robert Bob.....to cut through all this reckless nonsense and find out what is fact and what is horseapples,regarding a fascinating story woven around what may have been just an unusual cat.....
....or Jack The Ripper.
Thanks for the reply,Bobby !!!!
* July 2001
(Message edited by howard on June 14, 2005)
HowBrown
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 382
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 8:25 pm: |
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Howard,
There's nothing 'underrated' about Des McKenna's wildly speculative piece in Ripper Notes a couple of years ago. It wasn't even an article, but a series of e-mails exchanged between McKenna and then-editor CM DiGrazia, which DiGrazia turned into an article, boiling the blood of Melvin Harris, who responded with a piece totally shattering the errneous conclusions reached by McKenna. And D'Onston had, in fact, studied the scriptures his entire life, and most black magicians tend to do. How do you think he was equipped to edit sermons for the Rev. McAuslane? I must assume you were not aware of Harris's rebuttle and McKenna's response in the issues subsequent to the one you're referring to. Roslyn D'Onston, author of 'The Patristic Gospels', and Robert Donston Stephenson (a.k.a. Roslyn D'Onston), Ripper suspect, are indeed one and the same.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 583
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 6:00 am: |
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T.C.
Thanks for that information. Much appreciated.
What was puzzling me,until your chipped in, was the time frame from 1868 to 1871.
I'd be interested in reading the rebuttal from Mr. Harris if you ever got around to copying it one day,Tom.
I wasn't inferring that there definitely were two D'onstons, but that perhaps it was worth keeping an open mind to the possibility that there could have been. It doesn't hurt to question that possibility. Hey,it got a post out of you,didn't it? Score one for me....
Of course, the D'onston who we know of,was certainly astute enough to have written the Patristic Gospels. And certainly the majority of people involved in studying necromancy are also usually well versed in Biblical matters. What didn't jibe,at least to me for a bit, was this
...possibly getting v.d. and losing his post at the Customs House..
...to studying with the Dean of Canterbury,among others, and becoming the erudite man who would one day write the "Patty G"
...and then marrying his Mom's maid and leaving for India not even two full years later,without much information as to where he would have continued his work in Biblical matters. Cremers didn't mention Bibles in that box,but only books on necromancy. Hey, maybe our boy had a library card,eh?
Thats why I put up the mention of Mr. McKenna's article in the first place,as well as trying to drag other folks into the mix. Thats a pretty big flip-flop in life-direction for anyone,wouldn't you say?
Thanks for the info,again....
Did you register yet?
HowBrown
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 384
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 8:27 pm: |
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Howard,
I'm confused as to where you stand. In your post previous to mine you made it sound as though you didn't feel D'Onston would have the requisite knowledge or motivation to write a scholarly interpretation of the Gospels. But in your last post you write that he certainly WOULD have been astute enough. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. I think a lot of this is coming from the idea that D'Onston went fundamental Christian. This never happened. The Patristic Gospels is, essentially, a blasphemous text. At least it would be considered as such by any fundamental Christian. He wrote it under his occult name, 'Roslyn D'Onston', because it reflected these ideas. While he did convert to a more 'woman-friendly' point of view following the Ripper murders, he didn't entirely abandon his mystical mode of thought. Or at least, that's what appears to be the case. As for the box that Cremers looked into, it contained first editions of magic books. Presumably, D'Onston read books other than first editions, so this was probably his special collection, and not his entire library. And that's not to say he didn't keep his bibles and other study materials out in the open, or even numerous volumes on shelves, in which case it wouldn't require her remarking on. After all, she got into the box to look at his 'private papers', not the books. Or, perhaps, he did his writing outside the house, such as at a library, as you suggested. From what I can tell, London has the best libaries in the world, and certainly did back then.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
P.S. Did I register for what? |
Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 385
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 8:27 pm: |
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And why this talk that D'Onston had a venereal disease? |
Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 587
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:28 pm: |
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Tom.
Read the first post a little closer...
"At NO time does it mention him studying the materials necessary for the fabrication of the Patristic Gospels....period."
...and it doesn't, regarding the people and sources necessary or locations,other than citing places he visited. He didn't study Biblical sources with Bulwer Lytton, or at least there is no mention of this. He studied with The Dean....but for how long ? Enough to eventually write the P.G.,starting in the late 1890's, based on his 1871 work ??? Thats one hell of a memory,man. Think about that for a moment.
Regarding Cremers and the box of RDS' magic books, you could be correct that he had Biblical reference materials around as well. But there is no mention of this,and to suggest that he did lug them around is a speculation...not a fact.
Harris considered the fabrication of the Patristic Gospels,an act of atonement. This could be true. You state that it is a mistake to view RDS "going fundamentalist" as the P.G. would be considered blasphemous to any fundamentalist Christian. True. I'm not suggesting that. I'm actually not suggesting anything as to the extent and degree of his conversion,because I don't know how deep or profound it was. It does appear to be a labor of love and of erudition,having perused the foreward that David Knott kindly sent me. I don't detect one iota of occultism in that foreward,personally.
The comment about the "library card" was made in jest. But in reality, yes,he sure could have spent some time in one of the city's libraries,studying...
Trouble is,Tom...How is the guy making ends meet? This guy seems to have lived off the air.Almost every known suspect can be traced to a job or a means to his existence,not RDS...Writing a few articles for Stead isn't a job...its almost like what you and I do for fun,fortune and glory, without the fortune of course...What do you think?
So,just to clarify the post in question,Tom...
To me...right now...its important to seriously question everything about him in order to get rid of any unnecessary and false attachments. It makes all those other people out there take this suspect more seriously and hey,if they don't want to...thats up to them. We'll do it,though.
Of course,I believe that RDS possessed enough knowledge of Biblical matters,if he wrote the P.G.'s. Of course,I do. But that doesn't matter.....
What does matter,at least to me,is when and where and with whom. It seems to be inferred throughout the whole "course" of studying RDS that he made his way to all the locations,had the abbreviated marriage,went to the U.S.,etcetera and the other,unfortunately few,details we have on him....and still was able to,years later,write the P.G.'s. I think its fair to say that AFTER Woodhull,he could have chosen to devote his time to studying Biblical matters and THEN writing the P.G. I just see him as too unsettled in his earlier years,but thats just my opinion,not a fact.
The reference to venereal disease? Thats on page 104 of the True Face
I've been arguing against the idea that a man could live for 48 years without losing his mind or life before that time. The trouble with this subject,Tom,is that this aspect doesn't get scrutinized in the True Face and elsewhere, and is just regarded as an article of faith that 1. He definitely caught v.d. and 2. The Customs House and/or Hull Collector definitely says as much....
The fact is,is that it doesn't. It may have referred to his drinking and possibly drugs or his liasons with prostitutes.
Even though I'd bet on it being syphilis or v.d., thats not making it a fact.
Do you see what I meant,Tom?
Thanks for asking.....
P.S. Registering for the RipCon...
(Message edited by howard on June 16, 2005)
HowBrown
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Sir Robert Anderson
Inspector
Username: Sirrobert
Post Number: 437
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:07 pm: |
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"The Patristic Gospels is, essentially, a blasphemous text. At least it would be considered as such by any fundamental Christian. "
That's an interesting statement. Could you expand on it a bit ? I've got a copy, but make no pretense at understanding fundamentalism. I will say that my copy was bought from a church in England; it's well worn and heavily underlined in parts. Someone read it carefully...
"For Father
With much love from Lance
Christmas - 1904"
is written on the first page, for what that's worth.
Sir Robert
'Tempus Omnia Revelat'
SirRobertAnderson@gmail.com
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 588
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 6:02 am: |
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I saw him first,Tom...
Any chance of you selling that copy,Sir Robert bestest coolest buddy and greatest guy in the world,Anderson?
Seriously,since I haven't read it,Sir Bob...did you see anything that would give you even an inkling that the P.G. has an occultist ambience to it?
Please lemme know after Tom replies to your question....Thanks.
HowBrown
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