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Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 461
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 10:33 pm: | 
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Quick question regarding the declaration [ by Stead ] that RDS was arrested....and the idea that Tautridelta was arrested twice [ or at least detained ].....
If he had been arrested or detained....how many police precincts would it be possible for him to be arrested in, in the East End at that time ?
Its just another question in the growing number of questions regarding the man that have popped up lately. We know Tumblety was arrested and what for...etc...etc..etc. James Kelly's record...Chapman's...Ostrog's...you get the drift. Even the prior arrests/altercations of people like Pizer are known...except for old Sudden Death Stephenson.
Anyone able to help out here with some ideas as to why no one has been able to find records on him regarding the arrest[s] if records can be found on other men? Any suggestions?
HowBrown
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AIP
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 2:56 am: |
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D'Onston was never arrested in connection with the Whitechapel murders. |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 483
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 6:05 pm: |
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Maybe so,AIP...and maybe not.
Have all the police registries of people arrested at the precincts in the East End been exhausted for the name of Stephenson ?
Does anyone have a list of these precincts ?
I'm with you,AIP...but it would be good to know if these lists have been checked and re-checked thoroughly.
HowBrown
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Thomas C. Wescott
Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 368
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 8:34 pm: |
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Fascinating that AIP asserts that as fact. W.T. Stead, a contemporary gentleman and close associate of D'Onston asserted the opposite as fact. Think I'll go with him. He may have been arrested under the pseudonym of 'John Davidson' (see 'Ultimate'), and, of course, the second time in connection with the 'Dear Boss' series of letters. Or just as likely, if not more so, on an occassion we no longer have a record of.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 486
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 02, 2005 - 9:58 pm: |
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Tom...amigo..
Don't see the logic in your post above.
Stead didn't assert any facts whatsoever.
In fact, Stead, an imprisoned and convicted liar in the case of the "child prostitute" story, has contributed yet another of the bogus claims attached to RDS....and one that goes against the grain regarding human nature.
Does anyone think that Stead, who stated that he knew him for many years and was remarkable...would in reality say such a thing if he really felt that he was the Ripper?
Does anyone think that Stead would have hesitated for 5 seconds,being the "great social reformer", to investigate a man he himself employed to write at the PMG, if he felt that RDS was the Ripper?
This indicates that Stead was oblivious to the man who was mutilating women in the district above and beyond what any normal human and certainly any "great social reformer" [ read: social climber] would be....and still use his articles.
Hasn't it occurred to some of us yet,that this Stephenson,a man who claimed many things, is not only labelled a liar by Harris [ rightly so ], but is also seldom with more than a proverbial pot to piss in ?
His self-augmenting claims are also partly responsible for others to even further annoint him as some sort of bete noir,when in reality he lived off of the charity of others and was lucky to be able to do that.
Sorry,Tom....You can believe that Stead's claims are somehow legitimate,but to me,they are just more of the same sensationalized and self-defeating [ to the researcher with no vested interest,only the truth about the man,suspect or no suspect ] postulations made in an effort to glamorize a man who in reality may have been far less sinister and just plain evil without all the additional attributes.
The fact is,that this "John Davidson" may have been John Davidson. Pushing 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag doesn't get us any closer to the truth. There IS no record YET of his arrest. To say that there was is, is wishful thinking or hopefully not on any budding author's part, yet another obstacle in attaining the truth about this creep.
You're my pal,Tom...I don't want to sound like a wise guy and certainly hope you take this the right way. I hope you understand that what WAS the way of documenting RDS WAS exactly why his candidacy seldom went past the " Oh, he's too old to be the Ripper.." stage. He's my suspect too,and I will go tooth and nail with anyone on why his candidacy shouldn't be considered viable,as you obviously do yourself....and likewise when assumption after assumption are substituted for tangible, concrete facts and creates a near-mythical creature out of a man whom we both feel may have been JTR.
So,lets look at it from the perspective that we are dealing with a first class liar who was "thought" to be arrested by another convicted liar for a crime that the latter just casually remarked upon one day....Until the day that we have established and verifiable information that he was arrested.....at least once.
Your friend
How
HowBrown
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Rosey O'Ryan
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 9:13 am: |
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Dear Mr Brown, A minor correction to your above post [May 29]. I believe you mean, "TautriAdelta"?
Regards, Rosey :-) |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 490
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 2:57 pm: |
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Call me Ishmael,Rosey,or How...I appreciate the correction.
Tom..
I felt a little worried that you may have taken the post above as if I was hoppin' on the soapbox about the characters of these two guys more than the original question...plus I don't want you to be mad at me.
I should have put down that from the man himself, Stephenson, he doesn't state that he was arrested.
He does state,or rather,stated to Cremers, that he was questioned about the WM. Thats of no doubt. Thats on page 83 of True Face.
Questioning,as you know obviously,is not being arrested. In fact, RDS went to see Roots [ which could count for one trip to the local constabulary, but not an arrest.],while the other trip may have [ may have ] been to follow up his letter to the police. I'd bet he went on his own volition. Of course, thats just my opinion.
Tom....I'm not really trying to be disparaging to you or even those who, like us, are interested in RDS or the whole of ritualistic ideologies. Thats not even remotely close to why these threads were started up.
I wanted to see a series of threads that would in a sense "destroy" the list of unsupported claims against him and at the same time make him more palatable for the average Ripperologist or even new people to examine and pursue inquiry into,in a way that few other suspects or persons within the Case have been treated previously. Thats all.
So,I hope you understand what I mean,bro'...and before I go, a gentle reminder....
Register for the Ripcon or face the wrath of Sube'...do it Colwell...or die.
Head Ubangi of The Okla People, East Coast Chapter,Phila.
HowBrown
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John Savage
Inspector
Username: Johnsavage
Post Number: 408
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 7:18 pm: |
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Hi Howard,
On this question of did Donston have a criminal record. You may recall that Inspector Rootes said that he had known him for 20 years, and his description initially seems quite flattering, but how come Rootes had known Donston for 20 years, was it through Rootes having arested him, and how would Rootes have known that Donston "always carries drugs to sober him up and stave off delirium tremens"?
Sounds to me like Donston had come into contact with Rootes proffesionally, probably through being drunk.
Rgds
John |
Howard Brown
Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 495
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 03, 2005 - 7:42 pm: |
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Hey John !
Thats a very good question,sir...
Roots, who died less than two years later in 1890, if he was being calender-perfect with this 20 year ago meeting with RDS, would have had to know him when he was 18- 19 years old,as Roots was born in 1849....
I don't know offhand what the enlistment age requirement for a policeman in England was back in the late 1860's or early 1870's...but he may have met RDS in the capacity that you mean, say,when RDS was around 27 years old...around the time of the Customs House dismissal and the statement that could infer RDS caught venereal disease and still sowing his wild oats. Thats a good question,John.
Naturally,the mentioning of arrest as intended on this thread,refers to the two he is claimed to have endured. It could be discovered still...but I sort of believe that its a "marketing" ploy to further make RDS look more ominous than what he was....and I think he was a very bad egg despite the extra hair.
HowBrown
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 638
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 26, 2005 - 9:53 pm: |
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Just as a minor addition to this thread, which deals with the alleged arrest[s] of Sudden Death during the period of late-summer to winter of 1888.
There still isn't any record of one. Hopefully,anyone who is contemplating putting out another book on Tautriadelta will remember that....just for the sake of truth.
The two references in the recent book written by astrologer-occult aficinado,Kim Ferrell, entitled, Mystical Vampire, Mandrake Press,U.K.,on page 106,mentions two incidents regarding a Robert Stephenson and arrests...
The first,is one in which a Robert Stephenson was charged with assault in 1887.
The second occurred during the month of October of '88,while Mr. Neurasthenia was in London Hospital. This incident occurred on October 30th, 1888...10 days before the Kelly murder.
HowBrown
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Howard Brown
Chief Inspector
Username: Howard
Post Number: 719
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 6:59 pm: |
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Whoops...The lady who wrote the book on Mabel Collins,is named Kim Farnell...not Ferrell.
I'm wondering what she could have gleaned from any other Stephenson "expert", since after Harris, there wasn't one....and still isn't.
...not yet.
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asha
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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I am trying desperately to find a site i found a few years back which had Roslyn down for an upcoming case at court for the sexual assault on a woman. Unfortuantely it was on my old pc which broke and i couldnt get the site from it. Any help from you guys would be great........lets see if we can dig this out together as its certainly interesting. I think the year was 1887 but im not 100% sure. Im off to keep looking!! Also im sure he was down as Stephenson and not D'onston............but try all known alias just to be safe! |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1339
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, January 08, 2006 - 9:01 pm: |
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Asha:
In a previous post, mention was made regarding the author Kim Farnell's book,Mystical Vampire, that stated on page 106 that a Robert Stephenson was arrested in June of 1887 for assault [ sorry,no further information available from me,at least.] and another or the same Robert Stephenson for indecent assault on October 30th, 1888 for indecent assault.
The book does not mention the police precinct in either case. Ms. Farnell does not declare that these two instances were perpetrated by the same Robert Stephenson, nor Robert [ Roslyn D'onston] Stephenson, the suspect..
Sorry to be of little assistance with that website. I'll look around. |
Thomas C. Wescott
Chief Inspector
Username: Tom_wescott
Post Number: 552
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 12:49 am: |
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I was under the impression that the 1887 arrest was for a 'Robert Stevenson'.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott |
Howard Brown
Assistant Commissioner
Username: Howard
Post Number: 1343
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 5:45 am: |
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Tom:
It probably is, buddy.However,in Ms. Farnell's book,its spelled just like RDS' name. In any event,the 1887 arrest isn't germane to our RDS being arrested for WM related offenses.
Thanks for pointing that out. |
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